Edit by MOD: please no politics. Marked NSFW for sensitive imagery.

Legally speaking? Not sure. Practically speaking? If you out number them.

If you outnumber them, that doesnt justify fighting back. Moral high ground is also needed.

I think that if you are truly innocent and your only option to fighting is dying, then you are morally justified to fight back. The problem is that if it is you versus 4 cops the cops are going to win every time.

Legally the cops can say you were resisting arrest and feel justified to use force against you, and I’m not sure exactly what the laws are about that. Sure there are laws about excessive force, but usually those are applied after the fact.

The police have by default a duty and responsibility to act on any situation they encounter, no matter how stressful and controversial, in a professional and ethical way that inserts justice into those situations. That said, when an officer is clearly unethical in their actions, it is up to any citizen to either fight or submit, and must bear the consequences of their decision.

As someone who knows many in law enforcement, I can say that the system is fair and just in the majority if cases, at least in the USA, and if you do your best to not give any reason to grant suspicion of foul play then you have more than a fair opportunity to win your case in court. I myself have been to court on 2 occasions and won both because I held my cool and presented my case in a respectful and factual way. Those that fought against the authority were less fortunate.

As a part of the general human population, we are all obligated to be whistleblowers. If someone is unjustly punished, we are all guilty if they are truly innocent. My thoughts on this particular matter are that the officer in question is clearly out of bounds, but the suspect may have made things better by not provoking as well. This officer has many instances of complaint against him, and I feel that the station employing him should have gotten rid of him sooner. This is all an example of when less than capable police respond to situations where utmost calm, clarity, coolness, and humility MUST be exercised by those that respond. This guy is probably fine to conduct traffic stops, but to respond to something like this was outside of his ability to remain professional, obviously.

Again, my recommendation to all that read this, cooperate with police, use your manners, be respectful, dont fight in the heat of the moment, and reserve your case for court day. You will be more than likely exonerated if truly innocent. My condolences go out to all those affected by this terrible situation, and also to those who live in places with routinely corrupt police.

I am personally not fond of cops. They never hurt me physically, but abuse of their position that could get me in trouble... oh yes. Of course, the situation on the picture can be an other story. Now let's put one thing frank, we do not know what the man on that picture has done and if the measure of the police was therefore a justified "last resort" or not (that may not look like it, but that is not good enough). So before I can judge the situation on that picture... I need more information. I do not know if the man on the picture is a very dangerous criminal (and is therefore too dangerous not to keep under control in such an extreme manner) or an innocent citizen. There is no info for either way. It DOES look like a cop not following the correct procedure, but I'd like the hear the police's version of that story with full info before I take position.

Since it is on the moment of arrest not always easy to tell who is innocent and who is actually a criminal and the police not able to take any chances sometimes hard violence is needed. However I've heard the stories of those who's house was invaded by the police because of crimes the house owners were NOT involved in leaving them traumatized for the rest of their lives. A simple human mistake, eh? But one with terrible consequences. I sometimes wonder how fully aware cops are of the impact their actions have on people. My own confrontations with cops are downright terrible. I've met criminals with more manners and that is not really a good thing, is it? Rude arrogant are the nicest things I can say about them. Even Dolores Umbridge is a very extremely sweet woman compared to some of the cops I had to deal with, and that is actually an understatement. And then I never even had to deal with cops pointing a gun at me or attacking me physically. As a matter of fact, I was not even the one being accused of anything. I am very worried if I'd ever be accused of anything how they'd treat me then, regardless of me actually being guilty or not.

It should be clear that cops cannot do just anything. It should also be clear that if you are innocent you can better not offer too much resistance. That way you have a clear case if cops do use abusive behavior against you. That is the only thing you may have to win a case in court and in a well regulated state of justice (I too wonder if one exists) if the police abuses you while you don't give them a reason to, the cops in question can get punished for that severely.

I've in the meantime been updated on the incident on the photo (as the news was 99% corona only I've been deliberately avoiding the news for awhile, but as we now also get non-corana news, I'll resume watching the news). However due to the sensitive nature about that incident and that there are still a few things unclear, I think I can better refrain from further comments on that particular incident.

i heard about this on the news, its so unfair how this man was treated...

Yeah...I'm not gonna comment here cuz I don't wanna get involved in this one...

But for real, that picture is hard to look at. Geez.

Why I made it nsfw although I've seen much worse on imgflip politics. Or other streams. Is an important topic that should be discussed in a civil manner otherwise how will we resolve it?

I seriously have no further comment. It is sad, but I reserve judgment to someone or something smarter and better than me. Not saying you are judging. Just that I have little to say other than that I won't get involved in this discussion. I said I wouldn't comment and now here I am on comment number two. Not good.

... At the point where it becomes obvious that you are not the one who should get in trouble but the police man keeps trying to kill you.

What the hell is wrong with you?! This template is freaking racist and-and you might cause a war inside this site

I agree in theory with what you are saying, Kate and Thparky, about having a mature discussion. But there are too many trolls here who would like nothing more than to get everybody all riled up into a concocted racist frenzy. It's weird, but I almost get the feeling your posts were somehow imported from another site, where that type of intelligent, mature discussion is the norm, because that sure isn't the case all the time here on the flip.

To address the meme, I would say that the moment a person feels their life is in danger, they have the right to self defense. Of course, the sick cop who did this made sure his victim had no option for self defense.

Additionally, I would hope that if I had been there, I would have had the courage to at least try and stop this cop. Which leads me to wonder why bystanders didn't do something? Also, it leads me to question why the other cops, who in theory are not sick bastards like this cop, did not stop him? It means they're just as guilty as he is and should receive the same punishment that he does. Well, hopefully that he does.

Maybe not the norm in the politics section, but we have high standards here in the tank. We're not imported from another site, we just try to be the light of reason as much as we can here. Thanks for your comments, I agree with your questions surrounding bystanders both civilian and police, that deserves answers. Great points, and thanks for commenting!

Well, I can tell you it's reactions like this that cause wars, not an image. I'm marking it NSFW because of this being such a recent event and of the volatile subject matter. Comments are closely monitored. Are you able to contribute to the discussion and answer the question maturely? That's basically what the Tank is for. If not then don't comment

Agreeing with Kate on this one, and same goes for anyone else who may want to insert inflammatory remarks. This stream is not for drama, but for those who wish to discuss serious matters in a mature and productive way. Thank you dannyhogan200 for contributing, not calling you out, just setting our bar at even keel for the rest of any further discussion that may occur in this thread.

Thanks to all who may contribute here, please observe the spirit of the think tank rules when posting and commenting. This is a great topic, albeit a little more political than we usually get!

I'm expecting to lose a lot. There's a good chance I'll live another 10 years (I'm 51) but the way things are going I'm not expecting to.

You pose an interesting and critical philosophical question, but I’m afraid the practical answer is: never.

George Floyd was surrounded by four officers: one of whom snuffed out his life as he lay totally helpless pinned to the ground, the other three of whom stood by and did nothing.

If you ever try to fight back, Police will cite you for resisting arrest all the way up to first-degree murder if you were to shoot a cop in “self-defense.”

I’m not aware of any cases where a suspect shot a cop and was found to be justified for doing so.

The only practical option is compliance and living to fight another day and hopefully to vindicate your rights later in court.

And if the cop is trying to murder you?

Saw this today and was reminded of our discussion.

Horrifying thought. And not any good options at all.

At that point I guess there's no choice but to fight or flee.

Can't live to fight another day in court if you don't live.