Well yes, but no.

I think they also said make didn’t work so people didn’t hoard them.

Yes that was as brilliant as the move to send seriously ill elderly people back to nursing homes because "we need the beds for patients of a minor cold virus who are never coming"

Nah. I doubt that.

I think it comes down to what a person means they say the masks "work" ( or don't).

Do they provide 100% protection against the virus? Nope. Does they provide more protection than bare skin? Probably, but not much. Combine this with social distancing and essential contact only, and now you have some protection.

Is it 100% guaranteed? Nope. But we can't wait for a vaccine to start reopening, because the pay of essential workers isn't enough to keep the economy from flatlining.

I agree with most of this other than " Does they provide more protection than bare skin? Probably, but not much."

Its been proven that masks lower the infection risk by up to 70-80%

Cloth masks? Or N95?

Anyone, prefering N95 without valve. I suggest buying full face gas mask and P100 filters. More confortable and effective.

Well really depends on how the mask is designed and it varies. But the main point is to stop minscule spit projectlies from leaving your mouth. If you alone wear it it only lowers it by something like 20 to 30% but if you and an infected person wear it it rises to about 70 to 80. Its important to stop it from spreading instead of stopping it from arriving

*I* agree, but there's a fellow on here who will argue that because the virus is smaller than the spaces in the masks, the masks provide no protection. I've seen too many kickers in American football hit the goal post to believe that. There's also the question of how much of the pathogen has to be present in the body to cause the infection and probably fifty other factors to consider as well. I don't trust absolute statements about the matter. That's just not congruent with my experience of the real world.

There is an explanation, all mask work. All do something. But not all mask work at the same level. There is no perfect protection. But any protection can reduce infection rate. And the point is lower the infection rate under 1. R0<1.

Which means, each infected of that virus, infect less than 1 more person. So all people would do the most by their sides, and correct info about virus.

The problem is massive disinformation and reckless statements by the WHO.

There is 3 points to consider about the virus size:

- It usually flies inside small droplets, bigger than the virus itself
- Viral load matters a lot, even if viruses reach you, it matters a lot how much they reach your body
- Even if you are infected, it matters a lot with how much viral load you have been infecting.
- Wearing masks can facilitate the body to generate immunity, by entering only loose viruses, instead of saliva drops with millions of them

Yes, I agree. I wish others understood this.

He doesn't even understand what viral load is. It is the amount of virus inside your body (that your immune system must deal with), not the amount of viruses in the environment around you, which you could potentially be "exposed to", but will not necessarily enter your body.

The human respiratory tract has many defence mechanisms: "coughing, sneezing, nasal hairs, respiratory tract cilia, mucous producing lining cells and the phagocytic activity of alveolar macrophages provide protection against inhaled foreign bodies including fungi, bacteria and viruses. Indeed, the pathogen laden aerosols produced by everyday talking and eating would have the potential to cause significant disease if it were not for these effective respiratory tract defences."

"A pertinent demonstration of the respiratory tract’s ability to resist disease is the finding that- compared to controls- dentists had significantly elevated levels of antibodies to influenza A and B and the respiratory syncytial virus. Thus, while dentists had greater than normal exposure to these aerosol transmissible pathogens, their potential to cause disease was resisted by respiratory immunologic responses. Interestingly, the wearing of masks and eye glasses did not lessen the production of antibodies, thus reducing their significance as personal protective barriers."

I wish more people understood these things.

Good, you're here. I disagree with you, and no doubt would do no justice to your argument.

The manufacturers of masks make no claims that facemasks or surgical masks can prevent viral spread. Do you know how much spit from a sick person you would have to rub into your eyes, put up your nose, or ingest to pick up millions of a virus? Viruses do not fly in droplets, they are expelled from the nose and mouth during normal breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing. So masks are useless to prevent the spread of viruses. Also, healthy people are not germ factories, so the exposure risk is low, except during flu and cold season. Also, coronaviruses cause colds at most, from which people fully recover from in 3 days to weeks, and that's only in those whose immune systems were initially weak. No one dies from the flu or coronavirus. Even the CDC stats on "flu deaths" are mostly pneumonia cases lumped in with the flu.

Viruses are smaller than the gaps in masks. So if someone offered you an even money bet on a kicker hitting the upright and the ball bouncing back on a close-range field goal or converting the kick, you would take the former action? Drop the BS. How are the properties of sub-micron viruses supposed to be congruent with your personal experiences? Viral load is a separate issue as to whether or not masks are effective at stopping the spread of viruses.

I don't really have any interest in re-hashing this argument. You present this virus as an unstoppable entity that is consciously trying to find its way around a mask. You have stated in previous discussions that air currents swirl and defeat all masks because they do not seal against the skin. The virus does not come flying at you like a facehugger from the Alien movies.

As for the field goal example, knowing that the virus can kill, yes I would take the bet given the alternative. This is precisely what I mean by people saying masks don't "work." They are NOT 100% effective. You can be still be exposed to the virus, you can still contract COVID-19, even if you wear a mask. The chances of avoiding exposure and contracting the disease are decreased, even if only a small bit, by wearing a mask. This measure combined with social distancing, etc, provides some defense against contracting the disease. It is not an either-or case. Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of absolutes. In more cases than not, that just isn't how the world works. I will take whatever protection I can get.

The conspiracy theory idea is a just a way to kill off conspiracy theorists. No one dies of the flu or coronavirus? That's specious. Both cause the immune response that creates the pneumonia that kills you.

I doubt that this will change your perspective, but for others there is YouTube video that describes how this works:
HOW COVID-19 KILLS--I'm a Surgeon--And Why We Can't Save You, by Dr. Duc Vuong.

Masks do not stop the spread of viruses. No one dies of the flu or coronavirus. The figures are statistically insignificant. There is zero proof that social distancing can prevent the spread of viruses.

Pneumonia is caused by many things: bacteria, bacteria-like organisms, fungi, and viruses, and flu and cold viruses are only some of the viruses that cause it. Makes the CDC move of lumping pneumonia deaths in with "flu deaths" very suspect indeed. Also, pneumonia is not a death sentence. People catch it for many reasons, such as being in the hospital increases the risk, especially when on a ventilator, or being in long-term health facilities, or being very young or old, or being a smoker, or having a chronic disease, or having a weak immune system.

I've read articles and watched hours of video of epidemiologists with decades of experience talking about coronaviruses.Why would I watch a video by a fricking surgeon about how viruses work? Idiotic.

"No one dies of the flu or coronavirus."

Doesn't matter, equally useless. Viruses can easily pass through the cloth, not to mention the huge gaps on the top, sides and bottom.

Those studies are based on outdated "droplet" theory, before they had better tech that showed viruses are expelled directly, not in droplets. Then there is the ridiculous "magic cloth" theory, that somehow the cloth is one-way fabric, providing higher protection in one direction. Viruses measure less than 0.1 microns, while mask fabric can only obstruct particles above 5 microns. I wouldn't trust any article or study hastily made in the past few months, as they are prone to being highly influenced by political, business and personal interests.

Lad. Not all vriuses are airborne. Covid19 travels in these droplets. Wich a mask is supposed to Protect Against

So according to you masks are to protect the wearer from droplets emitted by infected people (presumably by coughing and sneezing) which are not airborne?

Droplets are as far as I am aware not airborne so yes. I think thats the very basic sience behind that. Though I think generally fluids, and you also expel such droplets while talking as well If I remember the explaination right. The virus is contained in the droplets.

Yes there are some viruses suspended in droplet. This was discovered in research done in the 1950s. However since then there have been technological advancements, and it has been found that bacteria and viruses are expelled directly during breathing, talking, etc, and those droplets expelled during sneezing for example can become aerosols.

Masks are as useless as vaccines against common influenza virus and coronaviruses.

This whole mess is about transferring attention from a coming collapse of the economy due to a fake money system to the usual yearly flu. Only a sucker would think they are doing something by wearing useless masks and unproven social distancing measures.

Yoram Lass, former Director General of Israel's Ministry of Health:

Mortality due to coronavirus is a fake number. Most people are not dying from coronavirus. Those recording deaths simply change the label. If patients died from leukaemia, from metastatic cancer, from cardiovascular disease or from dementia, they put coronavirus. Also, the number of infected people is fake, because it depends on the number of tests. The more tests you do the more infected people you get.

The only real number is the total number of deaths – all causes of death, not just coronavirus. If you look at those numbers, you will see that every winter we get what is called an excess death rate. That is, during the winter more people die compared to the average, due to regular, seasonal flu epidemics, which nobody cares about.

Here comes the conspiracy theory....only a sucker would take a chance on not wearing a mask if there was a hope, however slim, that it could save his life.

False equivalence. Masks are useless against the spread of viruses. And no one is dying from any coronaviruses.

You're just repeating the same lines. Fine, I'll play: Wearing a mask will not eliminate your risk of contracting the coronavirus, but it can reduce your personal risk and slow the spread for everyone. It's not either/or, it's to what degree. I'm not making this up. There are studies and research that support this.

The coronavirus triggers an immune response, which can result in pneumonia and Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome. That is what kills you. Saying that coronavirus doesn't kill anyone is like saying drunk drivers don't kill people - it's the trauma caused to your body during the car wreck that kills you. Nevermind, the fact that cars don't spontaneously cross the double yellow.

Masks do not reduce your risk of contracting viruses, and do not stop the spread of viruses. Mask manufacturers are now specifically pointing this out. No one is dying from any coronaviruses. Not zero, but close to it. They never have, and never will. Take away the 99% of old people who died from serious health problems in the USA and you have less than 1,000 cases. After case by case examination this will likely be even lower. Statistically insignificant risk. CDC just admitted it's never been 3 to 7 percent fatality, but 0.26, and outside of old folks homes it drops to 0.004 fatality rate. Wonder how much lower it will go when the hysteria dies down.

Dr. David Lang, M.D. of Wisconsin:

This is the point where I will ruffle some feathers. The masks I see people wearing around town are by and large
worthless. The reason doctors and nurses wear masks during surgery and medical procedures is not to prevent
spread of virus particles. It is merely to prevent droplets of spit and bacteria from their mouths and noses from
contaminating surgical wounds. In the hospital, if we were concerned about smaller particles such as viruses we will
use an N95 mask. Every year we go through an extensive fitting for N95 masks to make sure that we are getting a
complete seal because if we do not have a good seal the mask becomes worthless. Having random people walk
around in public with a N95 that has not been fitted and is removed every 3 minutes is pointless. Walking around
with an ill fitted cloth mask is merely a reservoir for moisture and other disease causing bacteria. It most certainly
will not stop any virus. Plus, every time you touch the mask and your face with your unwashed hands you are merely
seeding your mask with any bacteria you picked up. It is basically a giant Petri dish you have strapped to your face.
Numerous studies have shown sneezes or coughs go right through surgical mask and cotton masks. It is like trying
to hold back a river with a screen door.