All of the Democratic Party candidates are very dangerous, but none more than Bernie Sanders.

"All of the Democratic Party candidates are very dangerous, but none more than Bernie Sanders."

-DemocratsMustGo, echoing the opinion of the DNC and MSNBC

K

Just for the record Sanders was protesting mobile classrooms being set up as (in effect) permanent classrooms at black schools in Chicago, which was seen as a way of perpetuating racial segregation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyherald.com/amp-article/20190302/news/190309796/

I think it’s kind of cool that we could have a President who was once arrested for taking a stand for something he believed in

Pay attention: I wasn't arguing against what he was doing, I was discussing his hypocrisy with big government. If he gets elected President there is going to be government controlling pretty much every aspect of our lives. They will need more police to enforce it, like the ones arresting him in the picture. Sanders is a communist. You yourself insisted on another thread that you don't support communism. Now you are contradicting yourself.

Excellent reply, imo, to KylieFan_89's silly point. If someone is truly feeling the Bern, they want to give control of nearly every aspect of our lives to the govt. Assuming those who feel that way are well-intentioned, to even consider such a thing would mean relying 100% on an *assumption* that the govt is altruistic. We should all be keenly aware that that is not the case.

In fact, quite the opposite. That type of govt, be it socialist, or communist, of fascist, does not do what's best and right for its citizens, but instead what's best for the govt, and more importantly what's best for those running the govt.

So with Bernie's and KylieFan_89's preferred form of govt, Bernie would never be in a situation where he would be arrested. Instead, he would be telling us what we can and cannot do, and how great we have it. And we had better believe it (or at least act like we do) or we'd be the ones getting arrested. Then into the re-education gulags that Bernie's staff wants (and that he has not denounced, last I checked.)

I know my reply is not a direct response to you, just some context.

Pfft Sanders is not a communist, he’s a moderate left person by European standards who just happens to seem like a total radical in the American context

You may want to rethink that. He has spent his whole life railing against capitalism. Praising people like Castro and bread lines. The man is insane. Before you come on writing dumbass posts on my memes get your crap right.

"He has spent his whole life railing against capitalism"

his policies are technically capitalist, despite him not referring to himself as capitalist. certainly more capitalist than the "capitalists" america has

Capitalism's driving force is private profit though... All his policies he has announced on the campaign trail are about dissolving private businesses. Like when he said "forget you private healthcare and your private charter schools."

A socialist can call himself a capitalist all they want, but it don't make him a capitalist.

private healthcare and charter schools rely on the subsidizing of government.

"A socialist can call himself a capitalist all they want, but it don't make him a capitalist."

a capitalist can call a capitalist "socialist" all they want, but it don't make him a socialist.

"private healthcare and charter schools rely on the subsidizing of government."

Then they aren't truly capitalist, hahahaha. Are you really that dense? I am literally telling you the definition of capitalism and you are like no. And no, not all private schools and all parts of healthcare is subsidized by the government. In fact, areas of healthcare that are not subsidized by the government actually do better overall for the general public as far as driving down the price.

"a capitalist can call a capitalist "socialist" all they want, but it don't make him a socialist."

Except when he actually is a socialist... lol

"Except when he actually is a socialist... lol"

because of subsidizing required for many wall st. american businesses, bernie is hellava capitalist compared to anyone rooting for those guys (like YAF, PragerU, or The Daily Wire)

Hey, something we can agree on. Bailouts are shit and yes, they aren't capitalist. I haven't seen the PragerU video nor am I in the know on the current railroad scenario, but I do know extensively about the car manufacturing bailouts. Yeah, the government bailing them out was not a capitalist move. In fact, there are so many products out there better than GM products (I am still salty about them discontinuing their only good line, Pontiac), but they exist because capitalism isn't happen. Left to their own devices, they would either have had to start making a better product or fail, which would make room for better innovators.

See what I mean though. We both agree the bailouts were shit, and they surely don't fit the capitalist model. The government keeping a business alive leans more towards socialist model because it is direct government intervention. That's why your stance makes no sense. Government intervention not working, vote for a guy who wants to crank that intervention into overdrive.

Well, I really don't expect to change your mind so I will at least take some comfort in the fact that we agree government intervention into fueling businesses is shit.

"Hey, something we can agree on"

eyyyy

"I haven't seen the PragerU video"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Lo0ieyQtQ
if you're interested, give it a watch. a hypocritical part about it is that it says the car is freedom and the government is against us using cars because it makes us free. While cars are a freeform transportation, it is government agencies that hand out the drivers' licenses, maintain the roads and freeways, and operate the state troops who hand out speeding tickets.

"In fact, there are so many products out there better than GM products (I am still salty about them discontinuing their only good line, Pontiac), but they exist because capitalism isn't happen."

from what i've heard, GM vehicles aren't even functioning the best. I've seen more Hondas than I've seen GMC and Chevy (two companies owned by GM) vehicles put together... and Honda isn't even an American company.

"The government keeping a business alive leans more towards socialist model because it is direct government intervention. That's why your stance makes no sense. Government intervention not working, vote for a guy who wants to crank that intervention into overdrive"

you aren't totally wrong here. there is one concern i have with bernie's minimum wage policy, which brings me back to railroads in the united states: amtrak. amtrak receives subsidies because its model is not very profitable. recently, however, it has come close to making a profit because of the sudden popularity of railroads in the united states. I fear that the tides will turn again because amtrak runs trains (such as the Cali. Zephyr and Empire Builder) that operate for more or less than 48 hours. that's more than 48 work hours for each crew member per train. This will become practically double as expensive when Bernie increases minimum wage.

However, the reason i trust bernie is because he is more grassroots than most of the other candidates. My favorite is tulsi, but bernie is my second pick. Even if he does enact more government-based policy in the United States, it'll still promote local business growth and put a halt on government corruption. Donald Trump has partly done that, but not as far as I think Bernie will take it.

"Well, I really don't expect to change your mind so I will at least take some comfort in the fact that we agree government intervention into fueling businesses is shit."

glad we agree here. the other unfortunate thing is that the government does it for airlines too.

Just watched the video and it is very interesting (I don't really follow PragerU except for the occasional "Youtube recommends" scenario). Did not know that. For the record, yeah, not very capitalist at all, because the government is not letting the market decide. I have known for years that electric cars are shit, so it's funny to see it on the video. As far as the video is concerned, I agree with it.

"While cars are a freeform transportation, it is government agencies that hand out the drivers' licenses, maintain the roads and freeways, and operate the state troops who hand out speeding tickets."

So this one is a tough one to inch in the capitalism vs socialism debate, largely because it doesn't affect the consumer choice. For example, driver licenses' do not affect a person's desire to get a different car or not, it only affects if they are able to drive said car. The requirements also don't require a consumer choice, just that you prove you can operate the vehicle safely. To further distinguish the points, take away the two and consider how that plays out.

First, we take away the Obama era CAFE rules and eliminate the bureaucracy behind pushing public transportation, and we are left with choice. Innovation is pushed by profit rather than by government standards and subsidies that actually make products worse.

Now take away driver licenses and speeding tickets. Now you usher in all sorts of chaos from people who lack common courtesy and conviction of other's well being (trust me, it ain't pretty. I have lived in 3 of the most dangerous cities for driving in the US in my lifetime).

Now the one that I don't think fits is the maintenance of freeways and roads though. I think I agree with you again on that one. Take away government intervention there and we are left to drive on dirt roads, which would create a demand for better roads, which would create a demand for toll operated roads, which would create other more competitive roads to drive down the price of those tolls. Which could create private businesses who could innovate on how to use those roads. I lived in Orlando in my late twenties where traffic is notoriously awful. The people pushed for a fast pass lane (pay a little extra in tolls but it would be a very limited traffic lane), but the city brushed the idea off. If that was a private business, hell yeah they would have done it. So yeah, I agree with you on this one, not very capitalist nor does it allow for innovation.

"For the record, yeah, not very capitalist at all, because the government is not letting the market decide."

The good thing about the video is that PragerU doesn't go after Brightline, though Brightline is implied when PragerU mentions trains.

"I have known for years that electric cars are shit, so it's funny to see it on the video."

In defense of electric cars, PragerU forgets to factor in emissions per person, which is greatly affected by gasoline cars and pickup trucks. They also say that electric cars are govt. subsidized, forgetting that oil companies also are govt. subsidized.

will continue on this later...

"However, the reason i trust bernie is because he is more grassroots than most of the other candidates. My favorite is tulsi, but bernie is my second pick. Even if he does enact more government-based policy in the United States, it'll still promote local business growth and put a halt on government corruption. Donald Trump has partly done that, but not as far as I think Bernie will take it."

I honestly think Tulsi had the best chance of beating Trump... Now I feel like it really is a race to see who will get to lose to him. How the DNC leadership has jobs is beyond me. I know with absolute confidence that I can do a better job getting a candidate elected than some of these a$$ hat moves they do. The sad thing, that isn't some kind of humble brag because I am so good, that's a "anybody is smarter than this."

As for Bernie, I would disagree with you that his policies will promote local businesses though. Humor me as we look at one of his big policies he said he would enact: a federal minimum wage of $15. First, it isn't capitalism because the employee doesn't get to decide what the work is worth, the government comes in and tells the employer what they should be paid. Small businesses are the ones who suffer as they struggle to keep up with bigger competitors. And the bigger competitors don't suffer because they have the resources to adjust to different methods like automation (looking at you Amazon and Fast Food). Need further proof, look at California and New York who have enacted state minimum wages of $15. They have lost tons of jobs and businesses as a result and are now struggling with a budget defecit. All the tax revenue they budgeted for from businesses is gone.

Now, maybe you agree with me on this one so I would also extend to you to share your own idea. What policy do you think will help local businesses more that Bernie is proposing?

"because of subsidizing required for many wall st. american businesses, bernie is hellava capitalist compared to anyone rooting for those guys (like YAF, PragerU, or The Daily Wire)"

Not trying to attack you personally, so sorry if it comes off as personal, not my intent. With that being said, I really convinced you don't actually know the definition of capitalism. Not only are the three examples you compared to huge pro-capitalism organizations, but you also don't define someone as capitalist by comparing them. Either they are or they aren't, whether the people around them lean a little or a lot to one end.

So that we are on the same page, here is how to spot the two: a capitalist believes in a market driven economy (letting the market dictate the price of goods) while a socialist believes in a government owned businesses and programs. So let's put that premise to the test on Bernie's two primary plans:

Healthcare: He stated that for his medicare for all plan, he would abolish private healthcare and make it all government owned and operated.

Raising the minimum wage: His living wage forces employers to comply and is not market driven.

That's a +2 for socialism.

Happy to hear any policies he has come up with that fall under capitalism definition though.

A particular industry i am vouching for is the railroad. PragerU made a video called "the war on cars" that stated the government is using taxpayer money to build railroads is and "force" americans out of their cars. In reality, the government hands bailouts out to GM and the rail industry building new rail lines (brightline, texas central, baltimore-washington maglev) are private companies. Oil companies that are also leeching off of government subsidies don't like strong competition, and will use libertarian hacks and fake outlets like the Koch bros. and PragerU to convince the public into being paranoid. Railroads will then get the flack for building through properties despite freeways doing the same to a worse degree with government money. If opposition to competition while on govt subsidy is capitalism, i'd rather live in a socialist society. It'd practically be the same.
Bernie wants to break up those oil companies and prevent cirrupt politicians from hiding things from the public, abd make the public the govt again like it was before people like woodrow wilson destroyed it.