That's a success. If he ever gives you trouble, come to me. XD

Where's the thread? How long did it take him to do the "it's not murder because it's legal" line? hahah

imgflip.com/i/2uu59y#com3700433
Scroll down towards the bottom of the page. Doesn't really have anything to do with the meme, but his comment was a good opening.

[image deleted]

Is that Octavia?

[image deleted]imgflip.com/i/1a73b3

yeah haha I had a lot of fun with that last year before my account got banned

Taking the same road again?

One sec. LLet me get the link.

No, he didn't use that one, but I was prepared for it. :D

Unless the conversation hasn’t gone round in circles and there is a mutual respect. A rare thing around here to be sure.

I wanted to be sure he had seen my comment, and if he was just ignoring me because he knew I had him. Sad thing is, he probably won't change his mind. He'll forget the entire conversation I bet.

I wondered.

(Shrug)
You didn't have a good answer.

My opinion was logically backed. Yours was not.

It's up to you to prove it's morally right. If you can't, then you're saying whatever. It may be babies that are killed, but I'll support it anyway. You don't know when a baby is a baby, therefore, you cannot kill them without being wrong.

Sorry to intrude on this argument I don't really understand where it has been before but for any woman to have to give birth to their rapists baby would be confrontational. If you don't think so put yourself in their shoes. Say the rapist is also a bunch of other stuff that's bad maybe he killed a bunch of teenagers or something and you're starting to get the picture. There are lots of other reasons women would want not to continue a pregnancy. And I think anti-abortionists like so many other religious malfunctions, say not to use condoms, or even that one should need to get buried not cremated just so God may be able to inspect the corpse on judgement day. Are very unhelpful in terms of Reality. If you are worried about abortion perhaps you should save up every single one of the sperm you spill - quite a lot of men religious and not often when looking at Hardcore Porn on the net. This makes just about as much sense. Perhaps a woman should save her menstruations

I believe in life at conception. That's the only time that's logically sound when a human life begins. If someone is unable to care for their child, I'd say adoption is better than killing them.

Yes that's an interesting view. Hard for the mother during the pregnancy after rape, perhaps not fair for the child being a rape baby it really is complicated. I suppose it depends on the nature of the conception.
I believe the foetus is part of the mother and is perhaps consciousness, like many things, however, not conscious until near birth time. If it is about God's great concern for his foetuses he sure does kill a lot of them in other ways

Whoops, I meant foetus. Not even autocorrect would let me replicate your mistake.

Apparently my mistake. :)

Yeah it had me second-guessing myself

Yes, Australians are more likely to take the British versions although we have a lot of Americana in our lingo

Sometimes it's better to stay quiet and not look the fool rather than to say something and remove all doubt. My ex-boyfriend used to say that

That wasn't aimed at anyone specific I was just musing at the "silence." With my above comment in mind I will say that everyone can punch the god thing. I want no part of it. I just got back from an appointment and I realise now after all these years that I've been looking at life the wrong way; every time something has gone wrong I've looked towards the powers-that-be and said "thanks very much." But now I see life is just a genetic lottery an evolutionary Russian roulette wheel and you just gotta do the best you can.

You know "God doesn't want you to abort foetuses," and you won't be honest and put yourself in the position of someone who has incest or rape baby but to stand outside the doctor's office and scream at them with signs making the poor woman feel even worse. That's immoral and hypocritical and you do your god no justice playing these games when you know full well the answer.

Stay quiet and risk looking the fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt. That is

Lol I forgot how many elements of UK English are different from American English.

First off, I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a "fetus," second, near birth time? That's like saying at X time maybe it is a human being. Maybe not. Let's kill it anyway.

Just because it prevents possible hardship doesn't mean murder is all right.

God is a higher being. Meaning (since we are His creation) He can do whatever He wants. Would you criticize me for plucking a flower from a bush in my back yard?

Huh. Well good on ya mate.

Here's to the definition of patriarchy. Laterz guys. The quest for truth not the quest for points 🦸‍♀️

You know it's even worse than I proposed in my previous posts.

The aggressive religions of world domination, passive-aggressive takeover conquests are and have been the cause of so much murder corruption, demonisation, severe mental illness - religious psychosis, loss and a list of negative words so long you could wrap them around this planet many times over.

And then people who have been captured by same beliefs systems go around bantying unhelpful principles like it's a righteous thing to do.

A woman should give birth to her fathers child? Well, after all the Bible does say that once a woman has been raped it is better to hand her over to the rapist as property and call it a square deal.

And it's even worse than that

No, it just means abortion may be ok in the early trimesters. Maybe I would criticise you for plucking a flower maybe you shouldn't if we are going to get all pedantic about this

What I mean is human being's pillage and plunder of the entire world is ok hey, but when it comes to us well that's really sacred hey that's God's chosen people

Yeah, because I believe humans and nothing else in nature have eternal souls, morality, and can have a relationship with God.

That's exactly my point. You say abortion may be okay. And if you support it, you're supporting a self admitted morally gray area. (For me, not so unsure.)

I propose we pass a law where every human that steps on a blade of grass or plucks a flower should be jailed. Because it's maybe wrong.

You can't see the future. You can't say adoption will make the child's life horrible, because you don't know that. If there are a bunch of homeless, poor, unhealthy children, does that mean I would be justified to shoot them all and kill them? Just because they don't have a good life at the present? Doesn't matter what you think will happen in the future. It doesn't give you a right to murder. I will NOT support murder no matter what you say.

Maybe let Hitler live cos he might come good. Or terrorists because they'll see the error of their ways

Why are you allowing this hateful troll to bait you?

Which hateful troll?

I'm not asking you to support murder. Settle down

Tough circumstances don't make murder okay. I don't care what the situation is.

Look I've been a True Believer. And that doesn't make my lack of belief righteous. However, you God believers are always the same. We are the only ones that have the soul. What on earth are you smoking. And that justifies the actions we have taken on this planet. When it starts to go wrong and it will I really hope we have mastered space travel and that is not in the Bible. But it is in some interesting prophecy not to say that some prophecy in the Bible wasn't genuine like the book of Daniel which I happen to love.

I'm not supporting abortion I'm being honest about it. And all the grey areas where it's necessary and so that must be god's will as well if it's happening. If you really think God Cares About foetuses You haven't been paying attention. I'm not admitting a morality grey area in anything. Do not try and put me in your Jesus baskets.

Who cares what laws we pass it will just be more laws. Stuff people made up.

Ok agree to disagree I I suppose if that won't sway you nothing will. Sometimes killing is necessary. Like in war against a hostile enemy. I think it is a fairly well understood idea amongst all different types people believers and not believers that quite a lot of murder and all the bad stuff has happened in the name of God. I didn't want to start that that debate, just sayin

Non-believer

Not really sure what you're trying to say in your latest comment. It may be just me, but it's sporadic and difficult to understand.

Well I think it's all been said anyway buy Octavia and yourself. One last thing what for when a father rapes his daughter? An incest baby

By Octavia

May I just apologise to you as well Inaren if my debate spilled over to being rude. Not to make excuses but I have challenging issues

I grew up in a house of books. You may have mistaken my meaning the type of houses I was raised.

It depends on your definition of True Believer of course. I don't care about the True Believer thing I'm over it. You clearly see this issue a specific way.

It's not just a vision I had a 27. I had visions all my life. I had a full waking vision so powerful I involuntarily fell to my knees and dry reached. But no vision couldn't make me fall to my knees involuntarily now it's because I was young and vulnerable.

I don't believe it's god I believe it's men and or others. I can see the history of it. I believe there are very powerful powers. Frankly I don't care what is. The things in power are monsters. I agree one thing with you there is a lot of bulshit abounds. And the god thing is right there with the most reeky

Good morning here in Australia. Pardon for my post last night.

I think it's funny how apologists from any of the big three monotheistic religions always try and say how our religions are very similar. You know like the Islamic idea that we have Jesus in our religion as well. Just that he is a prophet

"The more you sin the more God loves you."

As well Timber you are probably aware the Bible strictly forbids anyone to swear on anything of heaven or below. People still swear on Bible over here in Aus

In court I mean. Or you can take an affirmation of truth

Adoption is better than murder, no matter the circumstances.

You people are so unbrave. No answer to the incest question there Timber. Just misdirection and focus on my victim thing again

Oh please

Maybe you should have a more honest go at putting yourself in that position

Not just the foetus should be aborted but the father should be executed as well

I mean can you imagine giving birth to your father's own child. Going through the pregnancy, giving birth then looking at it. The chances of it being an unwell child are very high as well because of the reduced gene pool in incest. There can be severe birth defects That's inhumane. That's why incest is generally illegal

No, I mean is vagabond's aggression aimed at me

Oh no it's OK I get the flow of the conversation now

You two know each other

Yes some of the history is very amusing 😊

Ah, you had me going there for a bit as I was reading. Then I realised the fatal flaw in your explanation - you don't know me. The "tells are obvious"? I was reading Allan Pease when I was like 5 years old. It's dangerous to assume too much, and reading people's tells there is so much an assumer can never know. I actually don't need you to believe I was a True Believer. I didn't say it really for effect or to get people to "believe in me." Maybe it depends on how one defines a True Believer. It was by way of an explanation to "I understand."
"[didn't] add anything substantive" with my string of posts? That's why I don't care what you think. Wow you are a pretentious one. Convinced you are the expert

And I said I was a True Believer. Not am

By the way timber - what are you basing your opinion on that I was never a True Believer? Is it my grammar? You have seen it all I suppose.

When I was roughly 27 I had what is called a hypnopompic vision - that is coming roughly from the dream state to the waking. During this moment I saw a massive being, his hand leading me out of a room in a house of thousands of different rooms. The room represented the dream state I was just in. During this vision I was male. I looked up into the sky to see the massive noble and unmistakable face of Jesus. I looked to my left and there was a beautiful woman there and she said, "do you know who that is?" and I said, "yes that is God." And I felt certain He was. After this I was a True Believer. You couldn't tell me nothing. But it was all in my mind because I had been reading the Bible that carries on and on about Jesus is Lord etc. The monotheisic religions will always betray. So there's a True Believer and please humble yourself and don't try and play my elder again

Wow I'm making too many post now, however, timber also to let you know I just credited you in my latest post "fallacious argument 101." Swear by the gods I always meant to do this

Oh there you go again offering out advice to someone you've never met? So all you do is make a fool of yourself.

I get it you must be Jesus. Have you come to save me my lord

Maybe you can save us from this endless debate and explain how you would do with an incest baby. If a woman is pregnant with her father's child and all the implications of that. The debate is very simple: do you have the courage to endorse abortion or not

And trust me adoption is not better than abortion. It's actually the selfish action. It's not fair on the child first all the potential health problems of nuclear incest. And then been the grandfather's child if you know what I mean

Carries anywhere up to 40 years in most States there in the u.s.. 25 over here all states full stop same category as murder and armed robbery

Is it something I said?

I just want you guys to know that I'm not necessarily a strong person. I'm a MTF transgender person with chronic issues. I've been around all kinds of dangerous situations and I was never strong amongst them but I was brave.

And I want you to know that before all the Gods of Truth I would do the abortion myself.

Don't assume what I will recognise. Are you comparing me to a $100 counterfeit bill? Thanks at least it's a 100

Anyway I know you have some amount of Good Intentions and good actions. But I am so over you talking down to me. I've been hearing your stuff all my life I grew up in a house full of it. Stop playing my elder. Fractured presentation or not u can't possibly know my story

Every time I have trusted the God thing in my life it has betrayed. Experts say the reason I perceived so much otherworldly phenomena is because I have hypersensitivity.

I perceive a big disgusting takeover by ones that are not worthy of the position they covet. There could totally be a creator, a God but who cares if there is. Every day for 40 years my life has been difficult. And it makes me emphasize on myself. I don't care for the creator of what I have seen. With my hypersensitivity when I looked back in my mind's eye to the primordial ooze I can see clearly there was no God there.

Consciousness and intelligence evolved and the rest is just lizards trying to outwit other lizards

Aww, cute, Dimby is talking "unrelevant" truffs about his imaginary friend in the sky that gives the utterly meaningless bucket of effluents it calls a life some sort of semi validation which of course nevertheless isn't, hence its undying anger...

I don't know

I meant more the idea of

If that's directed at me be more specific

I can't tell cos the replies run out and I can't tell who's speaking to who

Well you have to be able to. If we don't know, then we admit to supporting possible murder through abortion.

Nope. All I'm asking is that you can confirm a non-human is killed. Very simple requirement. With your analogy that you so poorly applied, you would have to (to convict someone of a murder) assure he killed a human being, and not an animal, or something else non-human.

You know when babies feel pain in the womb? Wow, where can I get your telepathic abilities?

Like I said, they can survive earlier outside the womb than they used to with technological advancements. In another hundred years who knows how soon they could survive outside.

That article came to no definite conclusion. It said things like "likely".

Also if a human (outside the womb, already born) loses their ability to feel pain, are they still human?

There ya go.

So, it's your belief. You can't factually prove it, but you have faith in it.
Now where has someone else been criticized for belief without scientific facts...

So why should it with an unborn baby?

You admitted that feeling pain does not determine the humanity of a being. Apply it to abortion.

Exactly.

Cedar* Sinai

It's not a forest, timber.

Apologies there Vaga