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But muh equality | SINCE HER GREAT GRANDFATHER OWNED IRISH SLAVES; WILL SHE HAVE TO PAY REPARATIONS TO WHITE PEOPLE? | image tagged in kamala harris,liberal hypocrisy,the racism doesn't exist racist,human stupidity,donald trump,democratic party | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
Kamala Harris  memeCaption this Meme
49 Comments
4 ups, 5y
BIG CAN OF WORMS | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
3 ups, 5y
[deleted]
4 ups, 5y
Trump Upvote | HERE HAVE AN UPVOTE | image tagged in trump upvote | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
3 ups, 5y
SHE'D BETTER PAY ME | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
While I hardly would rely upon Snopes as the last word on a lot of subjects - they have a better record for honesty than Rush Limbaugh and the Trump gang. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kamala-harris-ancestor-slaves/

There is 0 evidence of Irish slavery in Jamaica. Much less that Harris' alleged Great Grandfather had enslaved any of his own people - though if he had, it would show an unusual lack of racial hierarchalism in his Slave-holder thinking

If the Irish Slave-holder in question, is really her ancestor... All that means is that her Great Grandmother as much a victim of abuse/coersion/rape - as Sally Hemmings is considered to have been, in our modern appraisal of Slave Owners sleeping with their enslaved workers.

This attack upon Kamala Harris - whose Presidential Candidacy I don't support - shows all the fairness, of accusing an African American descendant of Thomas Jefferson - of being the descendant of a slave-owner.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
You must have searched long and hard to find a site that found an obscure reference that denies that Irish were not slaves...in Jamaica...on Saturday...15 june...1302.
Google: "Irish Slaves", they were shipped to the Caribbean en masse and sold from there. In fact, if you did any research at all, you would find that even immigrants to Canada and the US were "Indentured" where they were slaves until they had paid for their boat ride over and all the food they ate on the way.
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
Indentured Servants - were volunteers. Victims of the transatlantic slave trade were turned into "chattel" = property and dehumanized as a matter of imperialist capitalist policy.

You're repeating "White Nationalist" talking points - to excuse your dishonest meme. I was interested to note that the main period of Irish political prisoner "slavery" (which I must admit that I wasn't aware of, so thank you for bringing it to my attention) was over 100 years prior. By the time of the Senator's alleged slave holding ancestor - the Irish had become the Slavers - or so it would appear.

But please do also realize that there was a substantial difference to what "the 'blacks' of Europe" were forced to endure, and what was done to enslaved people from Africa.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html

"The legal differences between indentured servitude and chattel slavery were profound, according to Matthew Reilly, an archaeologist who studies Barbados. Unlike slaves, servants were considered legally human. Their servitude was based on a contract that limited their service to a finite period of time, usually about seven years, in exchange for passage to the colonies. They did not pass their unfree status on to descendants."

In any event... Thomas Jefferson's African American decendants were products of the system of slavery, where his white descendants were beneficiaries. From the stories told about Senator Harris' unconfirmed but alleged ancestor - it appears that this would also be the case, in this instance.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
2 ups, 5y,
2 replies
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/open-letter-to-irish-central-irish-examiner-and-scientific-american-about-their-irish-slaves-3f6cf23b8d7f#.tb66klcft

https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/following-the-money-irish-slave-owners-in-the-time-of-abolition-95f247e6dc66

While it does seem most likely that someone who spouts Neo-Nazi and Neo-Confederate rubbish, and other "White Nationalist" disinformation as "Facts", would be white... There could be another explanation, I suppose.

Are you claiming some other ancestry, now "hank 011"?

[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
Ok, perspective noted.
2 ups, 5y
Not "ALL OPINIONS" - just the ones that you seem intent upon propagating, in this meme/thread.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
Because historical reality is "a thing"...
[deleted]
0 ups, 5y,
1 reply
1 up, 5y
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/group-of-white-supremacists-throw-support-behind-trumps-go-home-comments

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-helped-spread-fears-race-war-south-africa-hes-ray-hope-white-1224682

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-rhetoric-bullhorn-encouraging-white-supremacist-violence-former-1200523

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5b7e5253e4b07295150fc749
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
My God, you're insufferable.
2 ups, 5y,
2 replies
Facts are an issue for you then?
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
No, your typical libf**k tactic of calling people that disagree with you neo-nazis kkk etc.
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
I'd say SMH...but I find no humour in your deflections and bull$hit.
1 up, 5y
Where did I make a case for anything here? Yet you keep strawmanning and ad homing me. What deflection? lol

I wouldn't bother to debate you as you argue dishonestly. It's a shame, at least you put effort into your debate. Later!
[deleted]
0 ups, 5y
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
1 up, 5y
I'll upvote your memes.
0 ups, 5y,
1 reply
Congrats
[deleted]
1 up, 5y
Many Thanks, now I can stop...whew.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
2 ups, 5y,
2 replies
Says the guy who uses bogus "history" - to justify blaming a descendant of slavery - for a "slavery" that didn't exist, as such - and to which her ancestor, had no obvious connection... As part of a right-wing smear campaign - and an effort to deny any kind of restorative justice measures... Bravo... You've hit a new low.
[deleted]
0 ups, 5y,
1 reply
"Restorative Justice"? What a made up term for liquid horse manure.
1 up, 5y
Actually it is a concept as old as law itself. The bible is full of formulae for calculating damages in a given instance. It is an inheirent concept of law and justice. "For every wrong - a remedy".

You dinosaur meme is just 💩.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
"and to which her ancestor, had no obvious connection"

so...like 100% of Americans who were involved in slavery, black or white, died 200 years ago
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
You unwillingness to acknowledge how you've benefited from slavery - doesn't erase that fact that you have.

It was one third of the "triangular trade" which established the economy of this country. Slaves built the White House. And of course systemic and institutional racism and Jim Crow laws existed FAR longer than actual slave trade. There are still vestiges present to this day.

The United States is a corporation. When you invest in a corporation - you accept the liabilities - along with the assets.

But, please... Do go-on - telling me about how you're NOT a White Supremacist...
[deleted]
2 ups, 5y,
3 replies
2 ups, 5y,
2 replies
Hard to say - this is the internet - and I can't see your IP. But based upon your statements and memes - you do seem to be parroting the talking points of Rush Limbaugh, on the one hand, and American White Supremacists on the other. If you're not in the USA - why do you even care how we fix some of the very real problems in our society?
[deleted]
2 ups, 5y
I see how your country fixes problems...you dont. You just make excuses for them or deny they exist and eventually they will destroy your entire way of life. All we can do is laugh at the insanity you have created as it speeds uncontrollably towards collapse.
1 up, 5y
No, a straw man is someone arguing against something that was never said.

I made ZERO comments about slavery, all I did was call out your underhanded debate tactics.

I wouldn't bother arguing with you because you'd just smear me through 'guilt by association' like you did with Hank. You already tried to state as a fact that he's benefited from white supremacy and slavery and OP is Canadian. lol

I don't doubt that you're educated and all that but I'm pretty sure the Muslim slave trade was more viscous, more prevalent and went on longer. It still happens today.

But that's all I'll say. You are trying to say my criticisms of you, which seems to me at least, designed to shut down debate, is me disputing your argument, which it wasn't.
2 ups, 5y,
2 replies
Bwhahaha
2 ups, 5y
In answer to your numerous bogus assertions...

A strawman is an argument based upon a flawed premise - easily knocked over. That's a good description of the original meme post above. Her ancestor (alleged) owned enslaved Africans -not Irishmen. He was in fact, Irish, himself.

So the meme above is an example of political disinformation (from an unknown foreign source) - and it operates upon well known White Supremacist/"White Nationalist" tropes. It seeming minimizes and attempts to thwart political movement towards reparations in our country - for well known and documented atrocities. In doing so - it focuses upon overstated, and in many ways debunked claims, relative to the enslavement of the Irish, which is largely rejected by even Irish scholars - see this medium post, previously cited in one of the above responses. https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/open-letter-to-irish-central-irish-examiner-and-scientific-american-about-their-irish-slaves-3f6cf23b8d7f#.tb66klcft

Noting that these are false arguments, being propagated by White Supremacists - is neither an ad hominem, nor a strawman. Where that occurs - I note that - where it doesn't, I don't. I have a fairly extensive education and background in ethnic studies, history, sociology and political science. I can assure you that I limit allegations of the sort you seem to bristle at - to occasions and junctures where they are warranted and appropriate. There are simply no comparable analogs to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade in modern history. The attempts to distort facts and history, to create them, are attempts to minimize and normalize the victimization orchestrated against enslaved Africans - by creating false equivalencies with suffering visited upon the Irish. They are both awful - but incomparable on several grounds. The above article - and the one from the NY Times - spell these facts out quite clearly. Using the definition of Penal Servitude to equate to Chattel Slavery - then every Prison in the US is currently engaging in slavery, by trading in prisoners' labor. While I'm certainly sympathetic to such arguments (and FYI that's an area upon which to criticize Kamala Harris, dating back to her time as CA AG) - there are still significant differences with Chattel Slavery - that make the comparison inapt.

I'm not trying to shut down legitimate debate, but instead the propagation of racist mythology.
2 ups, 5y
When I suggested that hugh benefited from Slavery - I was basing it upon the idea that his concern with American politics and race relations was rooted in his being directly involved as an American. Your reply that he's a Canadian is the first honest response I've gotten to my question. And yes - everyone who's a US resident or American Citizen benefits indirectly from slavery - to this day.

Aetna Insurance built its business with policies upon slaves. Similarly, the American economy was propped-up upon the unwaged labor of slavery for centuries. Since that time we've also used policies to perpetuate injustices, like "Red-lining" in FHA loans, and denial of various benefits under the GI BILL and New Deal and on and on...

These are complicated matters - and I believe in honest discussions in their regard. I don't feel like "hugh 011" does, however - based upon not only his initial meme, but several of his subsequent responses.

As to "Muslim Slavery" - allow me to say that I oppose it, as with all other kinds. It does seem similar in many respects to the slavery engaged in by Rome, or ancient Egypt, however. If Muslims are engaged in mass-scale, intercontinental trans-shipments of dehumanized people, whom they're using for Corporate and Capitalist colonialism in a scheme involving 3 separate continents... Well that's news to me.

I feel like my responses to hugh 011 - were in direct relation to what he did say - while pointing to the other folks who've propagated the same myths. That doesn't seem dishonest or unfair, to me. His initial meme, and subsequent responses do, however. And FTR - once again - I'm not a fan of Senator Harris, generally, nor a supporter of her Presidential bid. She is a Senator who represents California, where I live however... So to the extent that she engages inportant topics of national concern, and moves the debate in a progressive direction, I certainly support that.
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
So where ARE you from then?
And, regardless, might I suggest that you kindly butt-out - and let us get on with the internal processes neccesary for a just resolution to our country's ignominious history of discrimination and the legacy of chattel slavery?
2 ups, 5y
Why should he butt out? He's not voting or making policies. He's memeing on a website. Are you afraid of differing opinons? Oh yeah, you ad hom and strawman and try to shut down debate, so you are.
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
Awesome story, bro.

*bites tongue and tries to not make quip about the Irish penchant for tall tales*
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
Wow, not even close to the story, is this your first meme? You might try asking your mom for permission first.
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
He's no farther from the Truth - than your original meme.
3 ups, 5y
1 up, 5y
Agreed, not even close at all.
Funny how the truth is like that compared to you party hackery flake nooze?
[deleted]
1 up, 5y
You'd think she would voluntarily. I don't see it happening though.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y
Nope
1 up, 5y
1 up, 5y
She's find some way to make people with Irish blood pay her for causing pain and suffering for asking.
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SINCE HER GREAT GRANDFATHER OWNED IRISH SLAVES; WILL SHE HAVE TO PAY REPARATIONS TO WHITE PEOPLE?