Always looking for equality of outcome

How is it misleading? Do tell.

had a nice little comment for ya..
hit a button..
aaaaand it's gone.

short version:
your meme offers a dual premise:
1.sanders is promoting an "equality of outcome"
2.and it is all based on "fairness".

for us to accept that this meme is "true" we would have to accept that premise.
I know many have been pushing this premise,but under further scrutiny it falls apart.

offering:health care,free college and a higher marginal tax rate is actually promoting "equality of opportunity".

medicare4all will free up both employers and workers,and save a ton.workers will no longer be tied to a particular employer,and employers no longer have to navigate the health insurance grift system.

free college for those who qualify is simply investing in our kids to better themselves,and hence "opportunity".(also a higher tax base.educated folk tend to make more cheddar)

the higher marginal tax rate is not controversial,nor novel,unless you are a multi-national corporation who have been enjoying corporate socialism for decades,and putting the tax burden on the American worker.

because as it stands right now,the only sector enjoying "equality of outcome" have been the political class,and big monied corporations.

YOU have been given the joys of "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps".

*unless you are raking in more than 10 million a year,and then..well good for YOU bro!

Wow, that's a lot to digest.

I agree with the first part of your statement. Trying to achieve equality of outcome is ridiculous, especially without being able to control equality of effort. After that, I disagree with everything else.

I disagree with free healthcare and free college for the same reasons. Why should I have to pay for someone else's healthcare or college when I have no control over it, nor do I benefit from it? Why should the fruits of my labor be stolen to support people who have not worked for it nor who are not my responsibility?

Let's start with healthcare.

By forcing everyone to accept a one size fits all healthcare, you have taken away my right to decide for myself what kind of coverage I want, how much coverage I want, and how much I want to pay for it. You are also forcing me to pay for someone who may abuse the system, or not take care of themselves thus driving up my costs, etc.

Free College is the same issue. I receive no benefit from it. I can't control what subjects are taken nor ensure everyone is trying their hardest. With this system, we could end up with a nation of gender studies graduates because it is easier than STEM. The students and their parents no longer have any skin in the game. Besides, you think college is expensive now, what till the colleges start getting unlimited funding from the government. Look at what happened when the government starting giving out loans to everybody.

In both cases, you have removed the incentive of ensuring that both systems are meeting the needs of the people paying for it and that it is not being abused. As far as helping our children succeed, no offense, but I am not responsible for other peoples children, I am only responsible for my own. Unless you give me the power to decide who has children, how many they have, how they are raised, and what life choice they make, then I don't want to shouldn't be responsible for their life outcome.

If I decide I want to give what I have earned to others, that is my choice. I don't want the government telling me how much of my money goes to support others.

As far as a higher tax rate, why? We should be looking to reduce spending not looking for a way to increase it. I do not believe that the government knows better how to spend my money than I do. I find it ironic that for 137 years, prior to 1913, the U.S. did not have a federal income tax. We still had roads, doctors, a military, and schools, but no income tax.

was just pointing to the premise of your meme being misleading,and offered some points of consideration.

and those were incredibly reduced points.

not taking away the complexity.things are rarely as simple as they are sold to us.

but your response does remind me of my brother in law.he had the same exact argument.

and all I say to that is:your taxes are funding military violence in 9 sovereign countries,and a genocide in yemen.

where is your control?
where did you have a say in who we bomb?

or when your employer changes policies? you get a vote on that?

where was your control when Obama indicted not a single wall street exec for tanking the global economy and then put the bill on you,your kids and your grand kids?

as I stated,just points to consider,and if you want to view it as not an investment in our society to make America great again,and focus purely on the individualistic aspects.

that's totally fine.nobody looks at situations with the same eyes.
thanks for replying mate.
stay awesome!

Is pointing out all the things we have no control over really a reason to add more to the list?

I don't think so.
offering a comparative is a legit way to reveal differing points of consideration.

my basic reasoning is if we accept the current way things are being played out,which tends to only benefit a certain class of people,using our resources,money and labor.
why can't we do the same for the working people of America?

we are told we need to "tighten our belt",that austerity,while uncomfortable,is necessary to address our nations debt.

yet,our government always seems to find the money for:illegal,pre-emptive wars,defense contracts and tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy.

but when it comes to:your family,children and grand-children.our aging infrastructure and crumbling social institutions.

"ooh,so sorry..we do not have the money" and every politician,regardless of party,kicks that can down the path.

now we can certainly disagree,in whole or in part,on how to proceed,but I think it is pretty important to address that disparity,and in my opinion,worrying about a certain amount of people who may abuse the system is not enough to dismiss the underlying point.

(never mind that powerful people literally have an army of lobbyists to grift the system in their favor.they even have a group that writes almost 85% of all legislation *A.L.E.C)

people need to remember that the government=US,the American people.

I won't disagree that we need to close the income gap and I'm almost rabid about the need to address the national debt.

I don't disagree that we have many needs that aren't being effectively addressed, and there are those at the top who are making matters worse.

My concern about socialism and socialist measures is that they typically trade one set of elites for another. Meet the new boss...same as the old boss, to borrow from The Who. I don't see how voting in favor of Democratic Socialism avoids a time inconsistency problem.

that's a valid concern.
which is why discussion is so important and why we need each other.

I am not proposing democratic socialism.although I do think sanders brings up some salient points.the ideas are fun to play with,but the execution is a whole different animal.

however,while we can deem an overly bloated government as a real concern,and shouldn't be dismissed outright.let's remember that WE can vote our interests.we can never vote against the interest of goldman sachs.

I don't think it controversial to posit that big money,coporations and political parties have a strangehold on all the levers of power,and no longer serve the American people.

they control the narrative,they bottle neck open debate and stipulate the parameters of acceptable discussion.

maybe I am just too cynical,and while I admire those who still believe in the ideals of our republic.all I see is plutocracy,and it may already be too late to retake those levers of control.

/looks at the past 2 decades.....

You stay awesome yourself. It is always a pleasure to talk with you.

I agree these are very complex and nuanced issues. I think there needs to be a real discussion, but the two parties today can't do anything other debase each other.

BTW, I agree, the wars are terrible, and I wish there was more that could be done to stop them. Unfortunately, none of the current politicians seem to have any desire to stop them. If I could find a politician willing to stop them, I would support them in a heartbeat.

You should look up a guy on YouTube named Tim Pool. I think you would enjoy him. I don't agree with everything he says or all of his positions, but he is worthwhile listening to for a different perspective.

You also wouldn't also happen to know a Carl Benjamin?

Yeah, OK. You still sound like somebody I know. Either way, I still enjoy our discussions.

This meme is confusing😭😢

Not really, you may not understand baseball.

"Free college" justs prove what ripoff college is. It is way overpriced for its value. What is taught in college is not cutting edge; it is hundreds, some cases thousands of years old! Imagine paying half your salary for a 1910 can opener...don't worry, we'll help you a low interest loan....