sunrise

Nice one!

In which case you have begun an infinite regression. If a creation requires a creator, then the infinitely complex creator requires a creator, and so on, ad infinitum. But the arguments will never end; you can neither prove nor disprove the unprovable. Myself, I'm cool with God (I hope!) - it's His fan clubs that make me uncomfortable. But anyone can keep debating who wishes, is fun to watch (sort of). I just hope people stay calm and rational. BTW, you might look up "quantum vacuum fluctuation", just for fun.

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Circular reasoning is fun. :)

I've seen your comments on these kind of memes. You and I both know there's no point in arguing, because you can't prove either side. What I meant about "shitting on his meme" was, it's just an innocent meme, so if you don't agree, just move on, and let him have his fun.

Remember what Finn said: "I pray every now and then, just in case He is real."

"Always say some prayers at night because it might turn out that there is a God."
-Finny from A separate Peace, by John Knowles.

Sorry, I was off a little. Literally been twenty years since I read that, but I always *kinda* remembered it.

The fact that I was not there to see the Mona Lisa being painted, does not mean the Mona Lisa wasn't painted.

So you have experience and observational science which backs up "everything came from one, single cell organism"? THAT my friend, takes a great deal of faith, to believe!

Thank you Captain Obvious!

gravity made us

Lol just teasing (I'm agnostic, but I don't mean to troll).

if you can say there is a creator with no beginning then i can say that a universe can have no beginning

You just had to shit on his meme, didn't you?

The universe changes so it requires a beginning, the bible says God never changes

how would a cyclically changing universe need a beginning?

so wait, we dont possess the ability to understand a god but youre certain that the beginning of the universe (if it had one) has to be understandable by us to be reasonable? Whatever you claim the powers of your god to be, (the true god obv, not one of the thousands of others people made up to control others) I claim those very same powers to be intrinsic to the universe itself. Whats to facepalm?

That even someone in ancient Greece understood what seems to elude Lawrence Krauss and his friends. It is more likely that an uncaused cause would be outside of time/space/matter.

And that uncaused cause does not need to be personified into a human with powers. That seems like something a scared caveman would do with boredom and fear doesnt it? I mean, as a religious person, surely you dont believe every half contrived diety story thats come out of every superstitious culture do you? Seems like the only reason the uncaused cause would be understood as a person would be human ego wouldnt it? The uncaused cause outside of time/space could be just as impersonal as every other scientific discovery has been since humans came out of the ideological dark ages

You put way too much time and effort into trying to prove God isn't real. Surely in all your "research", you've come to the conclusion that you can't prove either side, so why not just have a Coke and a smile, and stfu?

Not having proof of either side is why i spoke up when someone posts a meme about having proof. I mean, is that confusing?

I am not sure how a "cyclically changing universe" is consistent with a universe caused by something outside of time/space/matter. But it sounds like progress, so I'll take it and move on.

Well the cyclically expanding and contracting universe is an infinite cycle and has no beginning and the uncaused cause, outside time and space, need not be/theres no proof its a person is my point

The uncaused cause being the answer in the "universe with a beginning" scenario not the infinite cycles scenario