Hide the Pain Harold

No, but we can look at what's been tried in the past.

That's communism, not Democratic Socialism. The Affordable College plan can be used to teach people the difference lol.

People keep reciting that, but they have no idea what they are saying.
First, communism and socialism are financial, not political systems
(Though out if necessity they and their government become tightly entwined). And the difference between them is purely theoretical, in practice they are identical.
To be fair, what Bernie Sanders is proposing is NOT socialism. He is suggesting higher tax rates, and extensive social programs. (Not the same as socialism, even if he chooses to embrace that word).
So why don't I think "free" college is a good idea. For one, the more the government has tried to make college affordable (through grants and other forms of financial aid programs) the more the cost has skyrocketed. It is a simple fact that the more you subsidize something, by throwing government money at it, the more expensive overall (total cost, not just to the consumer), and less efficient it becomes.
Some are certain to point out that the government subsidizes certain businesses and corporations, and they'd be right. The government does, and it has no business doing so.

It's not free education people are after, its the affordable system. In the 70's a semester at Yale was easily half of what it is now, because of the inflated prices. You're definitely right in that nothing will be solved if we throw money at it, but I'm on board with the fact that there might be a SLIM possibility that I can go to college without 100 grand in student debt.

But if you multiply that debt (because the total cost of college will go up) times the total number of students (who will have less incentive to keep their individual cost down because they aren't the ones paying for it) you can just add it to the national debt. That debt has to go somewhere. Guess who will bear that debt. You, as a tax payer.

Sweden has an income tax of around 55 percent to pay for their free college, and they are ranked second in the world in higher education. I wouldn't mind paying the 55 percent because it means I won't live in a society of dumb people.

Well the Swedes seemed to be very happy for decades, according to THEM. I would take their word for it.

An extreme case of social democracy is SWEDEN, not Russia... Sweden supposedly had the highest satisfaction towards their government. Now that is ruined by their immigration policies.

Yeah, Russia is essentially a dictatorship so I don't know how they are in a social democracy category in the first place.

Only because so many people seem to react to social democracy as if it were communism.

Oh yea...so by the time I retire, my college will have cost me 157k? Look at Venezuela...not mess.

"lol" is right!

It's never worked, any where.

Sweden? Denmark? Probably Canada soon?

You really want to get into those queastions with me?

I wouldn't mind, why don't I kick it off? Sweden is Democratic Socialist. It has free college and is second in the world in higher education. The healthcare system is essentially free, as a 55 percent tax is levied in advance to pay for it. But the 55% tax doesn't screw anybody over, because there is no inflation and the value of the currency is just right so that people can buy what they need.

History has shown over and over that socialism fails every time when speaking of individual freedoms and the economic strength of a nation. If I could put the socialistic economics of Bernie Sanders into a nutshell it would be this: Burden private enterprise with one directive after another and then demonize it when it ulitmately falls down under the heavy weight of taxes, higher costs, and mandates. While many people believe that instituting the Sanders econimic agenda, would help turn the USA into another Sweden or Denmark, (where by the way Sanders is not telling Americans the whole story when referring to their "utopias") the much more likely outcome would be our turing this country into another Venezuela. and we all know what a disasterous hot mess that country's economy is in right now....Dont' get me started on the half truths Sanders spouts about Denmark either, I know, I'm Danish.

I do commend you evan for your courage to try to stand up for what you believe. But you unfortunately mimic much of the rhetoric out there of many well meaning democrats. On a side note let me tell you a little story, and you tell me how Sanders stance against those who make a little more money than the rest of us is fair: My boys worked their way through college and grad school. I helped them all I could by working extra jobs. My boys studied for years, graduated and got good paying jobs. My boys work long hard hours , one as a lawyer, and one as an engineer. They both work upwards of 60 hours a week in jobs that are highly stressful,. and they still pay huge student loans and an enourmous amount in income taxes. According to Bernie, they make too much money and need to give even more . . How is that fair? Where will the incentive be to work hard and get ahead if you have to give it all away? My children donate money to charities, my daughter took in a homeless immigrant for a time at great expense to herself but did so willingingly and happily for the sake of Christ. Obama's open door policies of immigrants coming illegally costs us plenty. Why are my children to be punished by sanders just because the worked their asses off to get ahead? How is that fair? I am sorry but I do not buy what Sanders is selling. Free college??? Again, how does free college help college retention rates or help make graduates more competitive in the golbal job market? he fails to address that at all!! Why not put more money into the public schools or private schools so kids can get the basic foundations for a good education. Why not offer more incentives andhelp for parents of black youth or hispanic youth to get them into private high schools for a better education or invest in public school programs to continue to help minority kids.....????? he wont' talk about that...why?> because he is a socialist, a nice socialist i am sure, but a socialist nontheless and socialism does not work. we see it over and over again trhoughtout the world.

Canada? Wrong. Welfare is widely defrauded by citizens as well as new immigrants, with hard-working Canadian citizens paying for every cent.The inefficiency of government control has resulted in outrageous waiting lists for services such as cancer treatment. Waiting lists for cancer treatment are considerably longer than the American average and "the times are also longer than what radiation oncologists consider to be the medically acceptable maximum

Denmark, nope: Sanders comments on Denmark make me think he doesn't even know that much about his own socialism. Denmark has been marching in the direction exactly opposite socialism for some time. Does he even realize Denmarks corporate tax rate is even lower than our own. Please research. Sweden...good call as they are in ruin because of socialism practices.

I and I have family in Sweden. My cousin used free education to get into KTH Royal Institute and makes about 100,000 dollars American a year working for his government. Sweden has one of the highest percentage of people who are happy with thee government. Sanders's policy is not even close to that of Sweden, so it won't work, and I know that. I would just sleep better at night knowing that there was somebody in office who was truly working their butt of for the benefit of the little guy. Do you live in Denmark?

I respect your courage like I said but do some research in the differences between sociolist society, economy. None of these countries are "demorcratic sociolism". Many identify as capitalist, sociolist. If you truley believe that Sweden is thisbutopia sanders speaks of you need to wake up a bit. These utopias your looking for so not exist.

I never said Sweden was a Utopia. But whatever's going on there is miles better then what's happening in the U.S.

Lol you mean the near economic collapse they are experiencing? Why do think all the refugees want to live there? It's a welfare state. Your cousin makes 100k, after taxes that's like 30-35k. You think thats fair?

Why not? That's easily enough to survive happily. My family lives off of that much in American dollars every year.
And talk to ME about FAIR. I live in a country that is a giant pyramid scheme. All the money flows to the top, and assholes like Donald Trump get to rub our noses in it and get tax breaks. My family is lucky in a way. We are happy and can live off of what we have. But there are still MILLIONS of people over here who literally aren't worth a ton of s**t. And nothing is being done to help. So if I see Sweden as a beacon, now you know why. It's ten times better than what's going on behind the scenes of the "land of freedom and opportunity" that I live in.

That's an unfortunate attitude you have. Your a liberal I'm guessing. Had Obama made your income go up? Are you still poor under the umbrella of a democratic president? Racing the rich more will not get them to shell out money, to create more jobs. Im nowvqueastioning your grasp of how an economy actually works...

Maybe you need to get your butt up and go to school. If you are as poor as you say you can easily get grants for school. Sounds more like your mad at people who are born into weslth, rather then being proud to have the opportunity to come up and dieze what you diserve. Don't believe what everyone tells you. That's how these democrats get into office they pray on uneducated people with promises of making their lives better, meanwhile they are pick poctetinf you of your God given liberties and freedoms.

My family lost their jobs to outsourcing during the Bush years. I had to move and my family had to live on welfare for about six months before my dad got a job working FULL TIME AT A DUNKIN DONUTS. Under Obama, my parents both found real jobs. When I had appendicitis my family didn't lose the apartment because we couldn't pay for it. So yes, Obama made my life better. I'm 17. I'm not an economist. I'm someone who wants a chance. , Now if you're done talking down to me, I think I'll go to work so that I'll have 99,000 dollars in student debt instead of 100,000.

That's not America works. I got a scholarship for two years at a four year school, and will still have to pay over 100,000 dollars if I take out loans. The American economy is rigged. I can only sieze what I deserve if I have the money to seize it.

100k for 2 years of school?? Where are you going to harvard? If you are going to harvard 100k isnt that much once you graduate. Further more this proves my point of government interventions (sociolism) just raises the price of everything dramatically. Exactly what captain Bernie wants.

Tufts, in Massachusetts. It was about 61 grand for '14-'15, but I can commute to get it down to about 49 grand.

Shot I went to the university of south Dakota for 35k back in 2010. I kinda regret not joining the army.

I noticed you said they can by what the NEED. What if I wanna buy what I WANT? LOL

My family is poor. I don't have any money to spend on stuff that I want, like an Xbox or my own TV. But I'm happy with my life, and so are the other poor people who live near me. We don't NEED stuff we WANT to be happy. So why should it not be the case for everybody? Also, how is a TV going to help put me through college?

I grew up on government commodity food, so don't think I don't know what your talking about. But i knew after hard work and education I v like eventually lift myself out of poverty, which I did. America is just that. You are given the opportunities to succeed if You are willing to put in the time. You seem to be defending a communist ideal with your last comment? Did u stump you?

America is a giant Catch 22 (a never ending circle). You get money from going to college and getting a good job. But you can't go to college unless you have money. Opportunities aren't just handed out like balloons to small children. The only people who get them are the people who don't need them. Again, I'm the lucky one. I got a full scholarship to a university. But for every one like me, there's 2,000 that are thrown under the bus by the society we live in. I'm not defending communism, either. I'm stating a fact.

I just pray that to you 'll look for some non biased facts and always queastion what your leaders tell you. I love you buddy and I sincerely pray that you do research further. Sociolist economies never prosper forever. Remember we are the greatest country this world has ever seen, we 've saved the world from tyranny 3 times! If it's so bad how come peoplenriak their lives to live here? Cuz we 're the best. Thanks for bantering with me!

The only news channels I get are MSNBC and FOX. Enough said. Have a good night!

Wrong Sweden is a capitalist nation with sociolist society. The problem here is that the gap in between rich and poor is rising everyday. Sweden's government is struggling to come up with new ideas on how to fix this influx of gap, between its people, with welfare money going to relatively well of citizens.

F**K IT. I'M WRONG. Happy? Now I can turn away from a beacon of hope and a thought that keeps me going forward to stare at the hot mess of inequality and bad odds that waits for me every time I open my front door. Does the term "ignorance is bliss" exist in Denmark? Because before you went on about how life sucks over there or whatever, the thought of a society where I could actually truly LIVE was what drove me. Now, I feel pretty f***ing rotten about the world.

Dude it's facts. Walk out your front door and relize that you live in a wonderful land that of course needs work. But we cannot abandon all our morals and values at a pipe dream from a man who wrote rape fantasies, slept on a diet floor, had his college paid for my his parents, never had a real job until he was 40, has never had a bill passed, and most importantly is a politiction (a career liar). And like I said I was born in america have citizenship in denmark also. America is better. Trust me.

Sure. Thanks a bunch.

Only if you do mine lol.

It has worked well, and still continues to work well in many first world countries. If people label governments negatively, it doesn't change the fact that the people in those countries rate THEMSELVES as generally being most happy. They have good safety nets ("welfare") and ARE happy although they do pay high taxes. Why do Americans insist on judging them by our "standards" when the citizens of those countries are generally happier?

I guess we are in agreement, then.

Yes, although I doubt it would work here. I call myself a social capitalist, if there is such a term. I'm not really a social democrat, but it can work exceptionally well.

We don't have to "see the future." It's learning from failed history.

We have sense enough to know that if everyone had a college education ,there wouldn't be enough jobs to accommodate them. So, what good is an education, then? What we need is GOOD paying technical type jobs that pay a living wage. We get that by encouraging business's to come back HOME. Bernie just wants to tax the hell out of the average joe so he can FLOOOD the market with a bunch of dense graduates that can't find jobs!

We certainly needs LOTS of technically trained workers, and regular college doesn't cut it for them.

So yeah. We have to try to bring home jobs. It's a process, and it's the reason why Bernie is losing votes. If he had 10+ years to do his stuff then who knows what could happen, but he doesn't. But yeah, I guess you're right. If only outsourcing didn't save rich guys money, then it could be a reality.

Short term American thinking...voters don't think far into the future imho. That's why we keep voting in lame ass politicians.