Something a Liberal Co-Worker Told Me When I said Life Begins at Conception

It wouldn't matter. A wrong committed against you doesn't justify you committing a wrong against another person.

Thanks. In my view, the key to the debate is the question of whether the baby/fetus in the mother's womb is a human being or not.

If he or she is a human being, then nothing could justify abortion, regardless of what happened in the past to the mother. The baby has the same rights that any human being has.

If it's not a human being, then it's foolishness to speak of the rights of a clump of cells. That's why I think that's the key question.

Why do you say that? Not trying to attack you. I'm just curious what you would see as the differences between the terms "person" and "human being" that might influence the debate. You might well be right.

I agree 100%.

See Numbers 5:11-21. long story short The Lords says to Moses "go tell the Israelites if they suspect you wife of cheating to take her on down to the priest and have him "curse" the child out of her womb.

You're using that verse out of context, though. The child was the Lord's child even if the wife was cheating. Only the Lord has the right to take a life, because it is His life to take.
That's why abortion is wrong, it is not your right to kill something that isn't yours in the first place.

So God can kill babies but I can't. Got it.

Think about it this way, you let your kid borrow your phone to play a game. The kid is in possession of the phone now, but it's still your phone. So you can take it away if you want to.

I can spank my child. You cannot. :-)

Because God is the creator of all existence and we're not.

Because He is perfect and we are not. There are things God can do that is physically impossible for us to do.

Every point that was made with the Israelites was pointing to our relationship with God. The entire Old Testament is the revealing of WHO God is, it is the execution of the law on mankind for our sin, it is the foreshadowing of the need for a savior, the foretelling of the savior and a love story of God's love for us.
The marriage relationship mirrors our relationship with Christ as His bride. When we walk away from "our first love" we reap death and destruction. There is no life apart from Christ ... only death.
Much like the discussion of the she bear the other day ... the prophet cursed them but it was God who called down the judgment.
These passages at face value, standing alone, do not seem to follow what we have been taught about God. But ... He does not change. Same yesterday as today as tomorrow. Praise God for His mercy.

In both of those passages someone is getting cursed. It just does not seem very nice to go around cursing people, especially not women and children. Pretty funny about those kids though, tryin to rusltle that prophet and God made those she bears rustle them kids to death.

I've read it.

That's a good point. I've never thought about it that way before.

I believe all children, no matter the disability or the circumstances, are a gift from God. Good things can come from bad situations and I believe every child deserves a chance at life.

Well said!

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If that woman had a gun she would have a less chance of being raped.

The website seems to automatically censor the word.

Oh. :( that's too bad. I apologize for calling you guys pussies.

Maybe. But if she had one, I bet she would have less chance of being raped twice.

I would make an exception to that for sure. An old classmate had that happen to her. She still decided to have the child though. But I would have sympathized either way.

Would you let a woman who was raped kill her two year old child because the child resulted from the rape? No of course not. The "rape exception" is a ploy, it doesn't actually make any sense. Unfortunately too many prolifers don't have the conviction to stand up and explain why aborting a baby is murder regardless of the circumstances of conception.

The difference between aborting a baby and killing a two year old is about the same as the difference between killing a two year old and killing a four year old.

Well said!

They are both human beings, tekbarrier.

Some handicapped people are born not fully formed. Are they considered a "person"? Yes, of course! People are people, no matter how small.

There isn't such a thing as a human being who is not a person. "Non-persons" is a category invented to justify genocide.

No government, nor any individual, has a just power to legally "de-person" any one of us, born or preborn.

The proper purpose of the law is to side with the innocent, not against them.

That's exactly right.

Do you see how that's kind of a circular reasoning thing, in a way? I mean, that's the issue, isn't it - are they different categories, or are they the same category?

I agree with what Chov wrote. They're both human beings. That's the main thing that counts. The other differences you could cite are differences of circumstance (where it is located, and whether it's dependent on someone else) or appearance (size and features). I don't see those differences as being fundamental to the issue of whether abortion is ethical or not.

True. There's a 2-3 year difference. Other than that, though...

That is a verrrry small percentage and is always used as a smokescreen to deflect from the elective abortions. I will say I have battled to make sense personally, with that issue for a lot of years. How just is it reasonable to kill the baby that resulted from rape or incest, but not the one responsible for the crime? In order to to make any reasonable conclusion about the issue, you have to be able to separate elective abortions from those that are needed because of medical and or criminal reasons.

For sure its legit! Rape has hit so very close close to me with family members. Three of them to be exact so I do have very strong feelings there and would have agreed that it be their choice on what to do. All I am saying is that those cases are different from abortions of convenience.

I knew you weren't smiling at rape, and yeah, I usually find if we take the time to listen to each other, more often than not there is more common ground than not.

Not just your opinion, and even worse its free.

Yeah, but that's too easy I guess.

You would think taking some free pills would be less invasive than getting vacuumed like a car... but what do I know?