Wait until they drop the Social Credit score Update

Yup... and when they abolish the use of paper money...

People who own EVs should be forced to pay higher taxes to maintain the roads their heavy vehicles damage.

In most states they do - in the form of a higher Registration Fee, since they won't be paying any Gas Tax that goes to the states. That's why States are tossing around the idea of a Mileage based registration fees.

How on earth is this a government issue? Corporations chose to put in more and more computer software as bells and whistle features.

They also did it so they could make more off unplanned maintenance.

Like you people blame government for things government didn’t choose to do nor mandate.

Its all about the monthly subscription bullshit. Heated seats subscription, anti theft subscription, subscription subscription, I do not like someone else miles away having control of my vehicle at any given time.

Exactly. But it's a government issue when the government is pushing for it

Honestly, any other electric car, Tesla's are a scam

All EVs are a Scam.

Right I agree but none of that was government mandated.
They chose to do that.

Like my i3 has the heated seat issue it’s built in already but they want me to subscribe to use it. Which is ironic because the i3 from 2014 and 2015 communicate using 3g data which no carrier uses now which makes it impossible. 2016 and onward can.

The government gives you tax credits for purchasing EVs ..

It's funny that the government incentives rich people who have enough money to buy a luxury car with tax credits, when the lower income and poor or homeless don't even qualify for a tax return because they're so poor.

It's almost like the elite are taking steps and not caring that the normal folks (like myself) can't afford it

And no where in that credit law did it stipulate software mandates to shut down the vehicle. Technically they could do it to icb vehicles if they wanted too.

Oh and driver assistance programs which makes sense on their end they don’t want you driving if the software is out of date because they don’t want to be held liable if your car crashes.

But definitely a huge hindrance to the user which is why i cant stand things like teslas who market around it.

When the government incentivises you for purchasing an EV that can do this... It's political

At no point did the government stipulate these shutdown procedures.

Did they incentivise the EV vehicle ? Yes. So it's partly their fault people are in that situation

You'll do anything but admit EVs are a terrible marketing gimmick gone wrong ...

I wouldn’t go that far. As my fuel costs have been cut to a 1/16 of what they were, my periodic maintenance is once a year, and most of my components are easily replaceable with not much a cost difference with the exception of the battery.

I would agree that they are not the solution that they’ve been painted to be as the only way to reduce avg persons carbon emissions would be more trains and public transport.

Which if I had a light rail to my job or a bus that didn’t take 1 hiur 40 with 3 transfers despite being 12 miles away I’d probably forgo a vehicle all together for a while.

There's hope for ya then - if you can say that

Again there’s nothing stopping them from doing the same thing to icb cars on paper…especially for keyless ignition cars.

Unfortunately this was a standard set by Elon musk at Tesla which I HATE with a passion but teslas were actually not included with ev tax credits.

My meme is about a Ford Mustang EV... Soooooo who brought up Tesla

It’s relevant because they set a lot of the standards or lack there of in the industry.
Like bricking your ev if it doesn’t update or driver assist being all the rage now.

Got to test drive an i4 and the only thing I hated was the driver assist because it misread patches of cracks in the road as lines. Credit to bmw manual over ride take minimal effort but doesn’t change the fact it’s a dumb feature that’s too twitchy.

Kind of like ea day one dlc.
Also based off the mustangs MSRP value it may not even qualify for the full tax credit but I’d have to check what the limit is for the value of vehicles in 2023.

My car has lane/drive assist too. When in cruise control it likes to think exits are where to follow the lines even though I'm going straight

So I've noticed that some cars with blind spot detection won't detect a motorcycle driving in your blind spot. This is a huge safety concern and because drivers have been dumbed down by technology, they cause more deadly accidents.

Right but let me clarify Tesla had the longest effective range in the market even with its problems for a long time.

Rather then market that they focused on a non existent fully autopilot that everyone is chasing to be like in order to compete with Tesla.

When the real thing holding EVs back is initial cost, charging, and range anxiety.

Not that I want every car replaced with an EV I’m not some unhinged tech bro. I’d rather see more public transportation which is way more fuel efficient and helps slow down traffic.

So you're saying Joe Biden isn't pushing "green technologies"? Oh wait... Biden is pushing for exactly that. He's pushing folks to Solar Panels, electric vehicles, and other alternative energies.

What do you have against solar power? It still powers your home

Did you know that solar panels produce a bi-Product of toxic unprocessable Waste? In fact - when Biden put into law that Solar Panels would have a 4 times greater footprint in the US - he is literally dooming folks to 4 times the toxic waste bi-product of solar panels.

Alright well what about hydroelectric

That's a great method - so long as you don't have to redirect water sources to get to it. If you have a great river and expansive enough land capability... Hydroelectric works nicely.

That's it

What we really need is the water separation tank that takes water, breaks it down into its base elements, burns the hydrogen and releases the oxygen into the exhaust

Cool

I NEVER EVER said that they arnt pushing for green alternatives or pushing EVs.

I said they arnt mandating your car to shut down when it fails a software update.

Right but all of those software updates are for driver assistance and subscription features like heated seats or extra horse power.

None of that was mandated by the government.

I would know I’ve got heated seats in my i3 that I can’t use because I can’t subscribe to the bmw app.

In fact their proprietary software makes ev maintenance a damn near dealer only experience.

They also control vehicle climate, fuel consumption, tail lights, wiper blades, seat belt detection, air bag systems, hi/low beam headlights, turn signals, aig bag shut off for when no one is in the seat, catalytic converter O2 monitoring, fuel pressure.... All to adhere to government mandated safety standards.

How does that work? Safety enforcement in the government mandates rules by way of regulations, that auto manufacturers now have to follow. The tech is a $100 piece of Tech that will get invoiced at around $575 to the end customer. Who HAS to pay for the feature because cars have to have them because the government says so.

So the car company says hey government we need to make more money, we have a feature - that would be quite profitable if mass implemented. Can you have one of your safety people come up with something to make us need to include it? Safety & Government people take a few manilla envelopes stuffed with cash - legislation is passed and now ever consumer of a vehicle has to pay for that extra feature, because it's for our own protection.

Yes but none of that requires the vehicle to shut down…also aren’t converters icb or plug in hybrid specific not for EVs? Like if your co2 emissions are to high it doesn’t shut down the computer that tech has been possible since the 90s.

In EVs - they send these update to your car over the network/Internet connection. In most gas based vehicles, you take it to the Dealer or Service Center for it to be performed.

In the case of EVs where everything is digital - a software update that fails, can make the vehicle undrivable like the meme shows. In a gas vehicle, this would have gotten addressed after the update

I don’t need to be mansplained how an Ev works I OWN ONE.

Luckily my i3 doesn’t have this problem because it doesn’t have driver assist (auto pilot.) and even if I had a newer model that does I can disable it to allow me to continue using the vehicle.

Again that was the dealers choice to avoid liability NOT a mandate.

Don't drive it in the cold

It’s an i3 not a tesla. My ev can handle the cold just fine just less range.

No, Hollywood used Climate Change logic to take the info to the Nth Degree like the scientists say is a possibility

Bro just stop.
You’ve embarrassed yourself enough using a movie as a basis of a political argument.

Well when the crazy blizzard that covers a few states hit from all the climate change... Don't say I didn't try to tell ya.

The f**k are you on about? I just said my car worked fine in the cold just less range.Hell if I connect a solar panel to it it would actually charge quicker in the cold.

Not to mention my car includes a 110v cable unlike teslas which don’t come with any cable.

I can literally charge my car from any outdoor outlet if need be. But I’m fortunate enough lvl 2 and lvl 3s are widely available…he’ll I have a free one at my job.

I can't help it that climate change "science" has made it's way to Hollywood. What Day After Tomorrow does is take Climate Change to the Nth Degree.... Like what actually Climate Change scientists say is a possibility.

Climate change is caused by massive companies making byproducts from atmospheric gases used to cool teck, and make God knows what... But also mass industrial production is not helping the climate, plus all those rich assholes who get to fly wherever they want is not helping. Anything purchased in a store is attributed to climate change. But I'm just seeing that from the perspective of how many dead trees die in the park every year. That's how I measure climate chang.

Omfg you actually used Hollywood movie logic as a basis of an argument…

What’s next you gonna claim sharknado could become a thing because climate change come on dude..

I provided a long range scenario climate activists say are a possibility

Wait was that a day after tomorrow reference? Are you seriously basing the climate crisis based off a movie?

We already had crazy states wide blizzards and the only EV that wouldn’t turn on was Teslas which are known issue and lose half their range unlike other cars which it’s closer to 33% for older vehicles and like 15% for newer ones.

I don’t even think the Chevy volt or Nissan leaf has that problem.

And you've embarrassed yourself providing tons of reasons as why EVs suck... But you're so down the throats of EVs you don't even realize you're doing it. You've provided way more evidence for my side of the argument than you did your own side of it... And you're using a Hollywood reference as the sticking point to think you've won.

Forget what I said about hope... You're too smug to figure it out. You're like the families in the Smug episode of South Park lmao

I literally said I’d prefer extra public transportation over EVs.

And by dealer I mean manufacturer but let’s be real you can’t really take a different brand to a different dealer as I had to learn buying my used i3 from Audi and those people had no idea how to even check the battery.

Imagine going to a shop for your battery issue & hearing 4-5 figures instead 2-3 figures

That’s for catastrophic failure for ALL modules if you are not under warranty.
Not to mention the i3 is discontinued making some batteries harder to get a hold of like the base 22kwh original.

Mine has had zero issues reported despite being ten years old.

Oh right before I forget there’s 8 modules total and they don’t all usually have to be replaced simultaneously. Which was its main selling point. Meaning battery repair could be done same day or 3 days for total replacement unlike the leaf where it’s all or nothing and takes a week.

Each module being roughly being 3-6k.

My modules are like - a regular old battery. It has juice or it doesn't and ones that don't have juice can usually still hold a charge if you put it on a charging dock.

You do realize that the battery you are reffering to is also in older EVs it just controls stuff like wipers and lights.

The module I’m referring too is like replacing a portion of your engine.
Which rebuilding an engine isn’t cheap either. I would know my first car had a rebuilt engine in a Chevy cavalier.

One perk to EVs they don’t crap out after 200k miles and in theory they can last way further as long as the battery is replaced every 10-15 years.

I think it's that the govt, at least under Demented Joe, would force people to use electric cars (if they could) instead of whatever else it is they'd want to use.

Yeah, that's it. That's why it's a govt issue.

There’s zero evidence to support that and we don’t live in a totalitarian state no matter how many times you say we are.

Again EVs arnt a solution but they are a good way to reduce carbon emissions over a long period of time.

Not the most effective especially when public transit are high speed rail projects keep being rejected by republicans and oil bought dems like Joe manchin.

I thought EV drivers didn't want to harm the environment?

Do yourself a favor and dig into the "cradle to grave" environmental impact of EVs. It's not quite the pretty picture liberals want us to believe.

And where does all that electricity used for EVs come from? Sure, some of it comes from renewable sources, but the vast majority of it comes from... power plants. (powered by what?) So, where are we going to get the approximately 20% to 50% more electricity we would need if all cars were EVs?

Have you considered our inability to supply enough electricity to homes to keep the air conditioning going in the summer, yet we still will insist that people drive EVs? Hell, here in Taxifornia I won't be able to buy a new ICE powered vehicle starting in 2035. Gov. Nussolini is FORCING us to buy EVs. Demented Joe won't be far behind.

Oh right I also forgot to mention the particular vehicle I purchased.
The bmw i3 full ev.

50% of the vehicle is made from recycled materials. Entire interior is made from recycled plastic and the frame from recycled metal.

And you were saying that Biden isn't trying to force us to <insert liberal pie in the sky money pit here>?

Poor timing for you, it seems, as just today he's again attempting to force us to use EVs as part of his unending assault on fossil fuels.

What's sad, imo, is that we would have gotten there anyway. Liberals seem to be cursed with the need for immediate gratification (which usually ends up costing us a lot of $$) instead of guiding things so they happen in due course. That's how it should happen, imo, if we don't want to piss off a bunch of people who don't like the govt telling them what they can / can't and should /shouldn't do. Don't tread on me.

Cutting carbon emissions pushing hybrids and electrics…

That could be as simple as forcing companies to make more fuel efficient vehicles that’s been a thing since the 60s.

In fact half the reason trucks and suvs are pushed so hard by the auto industry is so they can dodge fuel efficiency regulations.
And even then all that would only apply to new vehicles.

Old ones would still be perfectly legal provided they arnt dumping lead, a driving safety hazard or a road hazard.

Like remember when trucks were a utility vehicle and not a means of cosplaying as a cowboy/blue collar. Now they cost about 20% more per pound of aluminum then a 4 door sedan despite having no increased truck bed size and increased torque that 83% percent of their owners will never reach.

At least you used the word "force". Not that you necessarily would find that to be a bad thing when the govt does it, am I right? I'm just guessing on that, so I'm fully prepared to be wrong in that case.

You do know, I assume (based on your advanced knowledge of EVs) that the average EV repair costs roughly $1,700 more than an ICE repair. Sorry, I can't source that precisely. I heard it on a news cast, so it's veracity has to be considered doubtful. I did google it, so maybe it's accurate, I don't know. But I think at a minimum it's representative.

The reason I mention that is because it's causing insurance rates to skyrocket (one of the several factors) and several insurance companies here in Taxifornia will no longer take on new customers.

Plus, based on anecdotal evidence from just driving around here and seeing way more than 2% of the vehicles being electric, it means our socialist govt can't rely on the gas tax (it's oppressive here) to fund their programs. So they're coming up with new and creative ways to tax us. Thanks Biden.

So all this 'forcing' has some fairly bad collateral effects for an average taxpayer like me.

Welp you’ve been wrong a lot about me so far so why stop now. 🙄

Ev repair costs very WILDLY depending on the vehicle and warranty. For instance a faulty air bag seat sensor on warranty cost me 600 dollars after labor. But then a window power regulator cost me nothing on a different warranty that’s good for 3 years. Both fully covered the battery.

Versus something like at a Tesla dealer could cost more and a lot of them may not even be legal like auto pilot retrofits that Tesla owners arnt supposed to pay anything for.
We also don’t have oil changes drive shaft problems engine problems, or clutch problems.

There are trade offs for everything.
Insurance companies are always charging more. Though some like Tesla I agree are a factor because the stupid autopilot causes so many accidents. Where I live you can’t go 12 minutes without seeing one. But cheaper EVs like the leaf arnt because leaf owners arnt driving like maniacs or relying on a faulty computer.

They make up for the gas tax by charging more for annual registration.

I am keenly aware of the Ev lifeline and carbon downsides of EVs.

Which is why I advocated for public transportation and high speed rail multiple times here.

I’ve also said if those were available I wouldn’t use a vehicle at all.

I also don’t recommend by new EVs I purchased mine used with a battery in good condition. Since the vehicle was both discontinued and already manufactured it would be minimum impact to the environment especially since my energy comes from green sources and not coal.

"I am keenly aware of the Ev lifeline and carbon downsides of EVs."

In that case it's odd that nothing you've posted so far (at least that I've read) displays any such knowledge.

High speed rail would be good, but not here in Taxifornia. In this state, we (meaning our socialist politicians) can fcuk up a wet dream. Our high speed rail project is an embarrassment. We passed a $9.95 billion bond measure 16 years ago. You might think that much money could go a long way toward a well designed high speed rail system, but not here. That's just a drop in the proverbial tax payers bucket. Current estimates (just wait for the final total...) for building the entire system have ballooned to $128 billion. That's my tax money, which I would be alright with being used for high speed rail, if used efficiently and intelligently. But as usual, that's not the case here. We did manage to swindle the feds out of a gift of $3.1 billion in federal funding, but that's obviously nowhere near enough money to flush into this black hole of a money pit.

…nothing I’ve displayed any such knowledge…

You mean me listing the problems of EVs, benefits, and even specific f**king specs of my own ev that another user had to google. Including the fact I’ve minimized my carbon footprint as possible by purchasing a used one made from recycled materials after my car was on the verge of dying.

While also me saying better public transportation would better for the environment in terms of lowering carbon emissions.

I gave you credit for being an honest actor earlier don’t disappoint me by bsing. You thought I was a hypocrite I turned out not to be. There are certainly many hypocrites who buy teslas thinking it’s saving the environment I just wasn’t one of them.

High speed rail is something that will require federal resources not a state level. It’s just toocomplex a project to complete and corporations will fight state laws allowing such moves tooth and nail. It also accounting for rich and wealthy nimbies who hate the poor regardless of the state.

"There’s zero evidence to support that and we don’t live in a totalitarian state no matter how many times you say we are."

There's plenty of evidence, so ignoring that doesn't make it all go away.

The biggest and easiest example is Biden's war on US oil production, which is incredibly well documented (not that you're aware of, apparently...) Also, my recognition of his efforts to force us all to buy EVs does not qualify to the level of me saying we're living in a totalitarian state, however many times your vague statement alludes to. Does the Biden administration engage in very anti-American behavior in order to control the political landscape? Absolutely. But we're not there, yet.

"He aims to lower the cost of electric vehicles by offering individuals, businesses and governments tax credits, rebates and other incentives. To address the chicken-and-egg problem of getting people to try a new technology before it is widely accepted, he hopes to build half a million chargers by 2030 so people will feel confident that they won’t be stranded when they run out of juice. And he is offering help to automakers to get them to build electric vehicles and batteries in the United States."

" "This transformation is greater than any one policy, branch or level of government, or industry sector,” a group representing manufacturers, suppliers and automotive workers said in a letter to Mr. Biden on Monday. “It will require a sustained holistic approach with a broad range of legislative and regulatory policies rooted in economic, social, environmental and cultural realities.” "

"The letter called for grants, loans, tax credits and tax deductions to promote research and manufacturing. The authors of the letter, which included industry groups and the United Auto Workers union, called for investment in job training programs and federal help in promoting development of minerals and other raw materials in the United States."

I don't make it up (unlike liberals.) If I use quotes, I can source it.

Receipts:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/business/biden-electric-vehicles-infrastructure.html

In his ridiculous "infrastructure" plan, aka the Inflation Production Act, he is spending around $175 billion to make us use EVs.

So, when I see words like grants, loans, tax credits, rebates, and tax deductions, I see my my taxes going up.

“War on oil production”

“ENERGYWIRE | President Joe Biden has approved nearly 50 percent more oil and gas drilling permits for wells on federal land since taking office than former President Donald Trump did in his first three years, according to newly released data from the Interior ”

https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2024/01/30/biden-administration-oil-drilling-permits-outpace-trump-ee-00138376

While I don’t agree with most of what you say…
Thank you for being genuine and posting a source instead of playing games. It’s genuinely refreshing to see someone posting their genuine beliefs rather then concern trolling or refusing post evidence.

It's a governmental issue because the taxpayer feeds the government that feeds these companies money to fail. It has happened repeatedly with the car industry, and bands that just can't spend their own money on business. The government is allowing highway robbery on its citizens through consumption. It's like the Osage price gouging. If you have the money and don't have a care in the world to buy what you want, then you'll buy it. But eventually you'll go bankrupt if you spend all your money and have none coming in.