When you put that liberal college degree to work...

Ok so I don't have a problem with company's making money but

People can over look things like lithium batteries, and this but as long as there happy

According to several articles, it's 1 small generator to assist a peak usage.

So, it's not plural. It's 1.

And how much CO2 is being produced here? Let's do some math!

The first question is how many cars can be charged at that station?

According to Tesla (the station owner) it's 100 bays. So, in 20 minutes 100 cars can be charged from 0 to 80% (the preferred charge level for an EV to maximize battery life). So, within a full hour of usage that 1 generator can charge 300 cars.

Each car can go 240 miles on that 1 charge.

According to the EPA, a gallon of diesel gas produces 10,000 grams of CO2 or 22 lbs of carbon. The same is true for a diesel generator. 1 gallon is 22 lbs.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/greenhouse-gas-emissions-typical-passenger-vehicle.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-supercharger-location-diesel-generator-report-1850804146

This articles about this station say it uses a "small diesel" generator. Going to American Generators, the smallest industrial stationary diesel generator is the 10 kW Triton Diesel Generator. Which uses a Perkins 403d-11 engine to generate the power. That Perkins engine uses just under 1 gallon per hour at peak performance. So, we’ll assume charging 300 cars for 1 hour is peak performance.

So, in 1 hour that 1 generator uses 1 gallon to produce 22 lbs of CO2. To charge 300 cars.

The average gas car gets 22.2 miles per gallon. Every gallon of gasoline burned creates about 8,887 grams of CO2 or 19.5 lbs. Let's round that up to 20. At 22 mpg, that's gonna be about 12 gallons of gas to go 240 miles.

That's 240 lbs of CO2 per car. 300 gas cars will produce 72000 lbs of CO2 in that 240 miles.

300 EVs produce 22 lbs of CO2 over 240 miles.
300 gas cars produce 72,000 lbs of CO2.

So.

You tell me.

Which is greener? 300 cars charging off of 1 diesel generator producing 22 lbs of CO2 to drive 240 miles or 300 cars producing 72,000 lbs of CO2 to drive 240 miles?

I appreciate your sincerity and effort.

It may seem counterintuitive or ridiculous on the surface but my understanding is that even when charged by diesel generators, Teslas (and possibly other electric vehicles) still get better mileage per gallon of diesel fuel used to charge them with a generator compared to combustion engine vehicles directly powered by diesel fuel.

I don’t care about your verbose understanding. What is the comparison of gCO2/mile between diesel powered generator charged EV and a gasoline auto at 90° ambient temperature. Generally, EVs are replacing gasoline, not diesel, cars. Real life facts are what matter. I have yet to see those facts produced. Where is Myth Busters when you need them?

You want to know which produces more CO2, right? That diesel generator vs diesel cars and diesel generator vs gas cars?Which should be pretty easy to figure out.

Disclaimer: my particular brand of dyslexia is really really really bad at math, so double check the math.

The first question is how many cars can be charged at that station?

According to Tesla (the station owner) it's 100 bays. So, in 20 minutes 100 cars can be charged from 0 to 80% (the preferred charge level for an EV to maximize battery life). So, within a full hour of usage that 1 generator can charge 300 cars.

Each car can go 240 miles on that 1 charge.

According to the EPA, a gallon of diesel gas produces 10,000 grams of CO2 or 22 lbs of carbon. The same is true for a diesel generator. 1 gallon is 22 lbs.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/greenhouse-gas-emissions-typical-passenger-vehicle.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-supercharger-location-diesel-generator-report-1850804146

This articles about this station say it uses a "small diesel" generator. Going to American Generators, the smallest industrial stationary diesel generator is the 10 kW Triton Diesel Generator. Which uses a Perkins 403d-11 engine to generate the power. That Perkins engine uses just under 1 gallon per hour at peak performance. So, we’ll assume charging 300 cars for 1 hour is peak performance.

So, in 1 hour that 1 generator uses 1 gallon to produce 22 lbs of CO2.

Average diesel car gets 50 mpg. So, at 240 miles that's roughly 5 gallons? So that's 5 gallons at 22 lbs co2 per gallon is producing 110 lb co2 over that trip.

300 cars at 110 lbs of CO2 is 33,000 lbs of CO2.

The average gas car gets 22.2 miles per gallon. Every gallon of gasoline burned creates about 8,887 grams of CO2 or 19.5 lbs. Let's round that up to 20. At 22 mpg, that's gonna be about 12 gallons of gas to go 240 miles.

That's 240 lbs of CO2 per car. 300 gas cars will produce 72000 lbs of CO2 in that 240 miles.

300 EVs produce 22 lbs of CO2 over 240 miles.
300 gas cars produce 72,000 lbs of CO2.
300 diesel cars produce 33,000 lbs.

Again, go and double check those numbers.

Here's the basic data for your math:

1 gallon of diesel produces 22 lbs of carbon.
1 gallon of gas produces 20 lbs of carbon.

1 gallon of diesel can charge 300 EVs.

Average gas mpg is 22.
Average diesel mpg is 50.

The trip is 240 miles.

I think your particular brand of disorder is cranial-rectal inversion.

Lol
to recap
........

Me:
I think electric cars charged by generators are actually still more efficient with fuel than combustion engine cars.

Right winger #1:
I don't care about your feelings I want FACTS!

Whistle:
*presents paragraphs of facts*

Right winger #2:
Ok but you're a poopy head!

😂

Nailed it!

Are you mad that I did simple math and 5 minutes of easy research to show that 1 diesel generator charging 300 cars in 1 hour produces far far less CO2 emissions compared to 300 cars?

Because it seems like you're mad about it.

and if i'm wrong, all you have to do is prove it.

Just make sure to show your work.

A level 3 charger puts out 150 kW. That 10 kW generator won’t cut the mustard.

But digging into this story more, Tesla still says it does not use a diesel generator at the facility, the Harris Ranch Super Charger. The owner of the Harris Ranch complex says that Tesla only leases out the space for the bays, and nothing else. The building the reporter claims houses the generator is owned/used by Harris Ranch, and they say it's for storage.

Here's the video the reporter posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU4z1Jeyq2g

That building isn't big enough to house the biggest diesel generator AND the massive fuel tank needed to power it. You have to buy the tank separately with these things. They come up to 1,000 gallons.

In all honesty, I don't think there's a generator in use there.

Here's the google satellite view. I marked the building with a red box: 833q9i.jpg (click to show)

Here's the google map link: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tesla+Supercharger/@36.25334,-120.2394095,254a,35y,97.55h/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x809360b9e63afd69:0x846fe5d09b9de5e4!8m2!3d36.254143!4d-120.23792!16s%2Fg%2F11xfml1mt?entry=ttu

The key things for me are the building doesn't have an exhaust stack. And engines need to vent the exhaust.

So, there are 2 sources that say there is no diesel generator. But let's say they're lying.

The largest generator, (1100 kVA Triton Diesel Generator TP-P875-T1-50) which is a building unto itself, produces 1,408 lbs of C02 in 1 hour. Still 10,000s less.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DUROMAX-13000-10500-Watt-Dual-Fuel-Electric-Start-Gasoline-Propane-Portable-Home-Power-Back-Up-Generator-with-CO-Alert-Shutdown-XP13000HX/314186063

This portable gasoline powered generator has 10,500 watt output. 1,000 watts = 1 kilowatt (kW). Thus, 10.5kW output. Product brochure states at 50% output (5.25 kW) run time is 8.5 hours. Page 66 of Use and Care Manual states gas tank capacity is 8.3 gallons. Approximately 1gallon/hour at 5.25 kW output.

Tesla battery capacity is 100 kWh. 80% is 80 kWh. Charging 80 kWh at a rate of 5.5 kW would take 14.5 hours, which would consume 14.5 gallons of gas. Tesla range is is 315 miles at full charge. 80% charge yields 252 miles.
Unfortunately the generator’s fuel consumption rate at 100% (10.5 kW) is not stated. I doubt that it would be double (2 gal/hr). If it was 1.5 gal/hr, the Tesla would charge 80% in 7.6 hours at 10.5 kW and burn 11.4 gallons. A Toyota Camry at 28 mpg would travel 320 miles on 11.4 gallons compared to 252 miles for the Tesla.

Yes, a LARGE 150 kW diesel generator would be more efficient. But I’ll let you figure that out from here.

Here is data on a 150kW generator that has only 135kW prime output (100%).

https://www.tritonpower.com/1-tp-spec-sheets/perkins-non-epa/60-hz/tp-p150-t1-60/1106a-70tag2-1800.pdf

This is the one I was using for the 2nd set. It's still going to be significanly less pollution running this 1 engine than 300 engines.

It won’t change 100 cars at once at 150 KILOWATTs each car.

I agree. And the articles say it's there to help out during peak usage. It's not the primary source.

Harris Ranch, the campus owner, says that Tesla only leases out the parking spaces and does not lease out any buildings.

I don't think there is a generator there and the reporter was wrong.

Two good articles below. The PORTABLE generator was used in 2015 on Memorial Day Weekend to provide additional capacity, as initially reported by SFGate, a reputable San Francisco area publication. The station was relatively new and did not have 98 bays. It was recently upgraded to faster chargers and 98 bays.

This is a great example of the children's gossip game “telephone”!

https://thebusinessjournal.com/blog-harris-ranch-sets-record-straight-on-diesel-powered-tesla-supercharger-allegations/

https://teslanorth.com/2023/01/15/worlds-largest-tesla-supercharger-complete-98-total-stalls-at-harris-ranch/

Nice. We've done a lot of good work here.

We know that the OP is trash; the 100 bay location was never powered by multiple generators. When it was a small spot, it was powered by a traditional portable generator to help during peak hours on 1 weekend. At no point was it primarily powered by a generator.

The crazy thing is it happened 8 years ago!