Choices!

I've never been prouder as a Canadian.

Lots to be proud about in Canada lately

The U.S. “as established by the Founders” included slavery. Lol

Not only that, but certain Founding Fathers imagined that free blacks (if and when the time ever came) and free whites could never live together. We now recognize that viewpoint as white separatist.

Not to mention women did not have the right to vote. Homosexuals could not marry. Etc etc.

The times change! We discover rights our predecessors never could have dreamed!

I hope you're not a real Doctor. Seuss, maybe. Show me in the Constitution or the Declaration Of Independence where establishing the United States included slavery and gays being unable to marry.

Yes, we NOW see slavery as wrong and a crime against humanity, but you're trying to apply modern-day morals to 18th and 19th-century practices. WE know it was wrong; THEY thought it was completely normal.

Most of what you mentioned has been corrected and codified in the Constitution. Obviously, I'm not talking about returning to those practices. Don't be a pinhead.

Show you where in the Constitution? 13th Amendment for starters.

Don’t be obtuse. The Constitution was founded upon the implicit acceptance of the South’s “peculiar institution” of slavery. The Founders considered doing something about it, and they decided not to. Black rights were sold down the river, literally (that’s where the expression comes from), for the sake of “unity.”

So much for that. It took a Civil War to end it. The Founders didn’t magically erase the reckoning over slavery through political genius, they only punted it down the road.

I’m not ready to leave the country, but I do think we will see people leaving red states the more right-wing insanity they pass.

I live in a red state now — I have lived in red states all my life, actually — and I can tell you they’re not like they were when I grew up. Not at all. Being a liberal used to merely mean being different. Now it’s more like being an exotic species of animal to be hunted.

I don’t want my daughter to grow up in a state where she has fewer rights than my wife had, so moving out is definitely on the table.

Multiply that by a few million who feel the same as me, and companies relocating, etc. How much of a price are y’all willing to pay to enshrine your retrograde values in law? Think about it.

LOL The 13th amendment OUTLAWED slavery. I said show me where it's written: "The U.S. 'as established by the Founders' INCLUDED slavery."

You're bringing up crap that was going on despite the Constitution and the Declaration, not because of them. And you're throwing all of that against the wall ala 1619 project but none of it is sticking. No, the Constitution was not founded upon the "implicit acceptance" of slavery. Freeing the slaves was originally in the Declaration of Independence, but keeping slavery was thrust upon the anti-slave states as an ultimatum. If the anti-slavery delegates didn't acquiesce, the country would never have been born or would've died in infancy.

Oh brother, spare me the "red states bad" BS. I'll put Republican-led cities and states up against Democrat-led anytime. Both parties have changed, that's inevitable as new blood comes in. But the more the Democrat party changed the more it remained the same. So if your daughter lives in a COUNTRY where she has fewer rights, it will be DEMOCRATS who cause it, not Republicans.

What rights will your daughter be in danger of losing because of Republicans? This unconstitutional "Disinformation Governance Board" was dreamed up by the Democrats, and is just one right we ALL lose if it stays. Gun rights are always under attack. Every time a criminal kills someone, Democrats want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens.

To what "retrograde values" and right-wing insanity are you referring?

It isn’t rocket science, more guns in circulation among the general public translates to more death. More guns, more death. It’s what they’re designed to do.

The countries on this list haven’t completely eliminated crime, in all respects, but they *have* succeeded in bringing gun deaths way down (Japan and South Korea have brought theirs down to basically zero).

We have chosen here in America to permit 40,000+ gun deaths per year, when a better set of laws could reduce that death toll to less than 100. Gun deaths are not an inevitability, they’re a choice. And no, guns don’t have to be banned. That would contradict the 2nd Amendment. Guns just need to be regulated better. A “well-regulated militia” is not what we have when any hateful, mentally ill yahoo can walk up to a gun show and buy a semi-auto or even print a 3D gun from home.

1619 Project? Nah. The Founders bestowed upon us beneficial principles of freedom and a framework for government that eventually allowed for slavery to be abolished, though they didn’t get around to doing so in their time. That doesn’t mean our Founders were irredeemably corrupt, it just means they weren’t perfect. No one except Jesus is. But as MLK might say, the arc of American history bends toward more freedom.

Despite current Republican efforts to curtail liberty, they won’t be successful. Freedom is in our bones, and Republican overreach will be punished at the ballot box.

Japan Population - 125.8M
S. Korea Population - 51.78M
Total both countries - 177.58M
United States Population - 329.5M

LOL You're joking, right? Naturally, gun violence stats would be higher here than there. We have almost 3X the population of both countries combined. Come on, I'd like to think you're smarter than that. However, gun violence among law-abiding citizens is a fraction of the total. You want gun regulation? No problem. Start with the criminals. When that's cleaned up, then maybe I'll give mine up.

And on that subject, why is it when a cop kills someone lefty liberal Democrats blame the cop, but when someone shoots up a mall or a school they blame the gun and then want to punish law-abiding gun owners?

You still haven't told me what liberties Republicans are trying to curtail, so I have to think you don't have any actual examples. And if I were a betting man, I'd wager the upcoming elections and see who's going to get spanked.

Anyway, we're getting off course on a tangent.

Firearm death rate, meaning population differences are already accounted for.

Okay, last post. This is getting boring and it's deep in the weeds, now.

A different approach: A Feb 2022 article from Pew Research states that according to the CDC, in 2020 (the most recent year data is available), 45,222 people in the U.S. died from gun-related injuries. SUICIDE accounted for 54% of gun deaths; murder accounted for 43%, and 3% were listed as "other." Later in the piece, the CDC states: "While 2020 saw the highest TOTAL number of gun-related deaths in the U.S., that statistic does NOT take into account the nation's growing population." It further states that even though the number is high, murders and suicides are BELOW peak levels.

I read another article recently that stated the U.S. ranked something like 38th (I could be off on that number) globally in gun-related deaths. So there are 37 other countries whose gun-related deaths are higher than ours.

That's all for me. The thread is getting too long, and no longer has anything to do with the meme.