there's legitimately no funny way to spin this. What Texas did is vile and I hope they get crushed by lawsuit after lawsuit

Rape victims need to start becoming extralegal vigilantes.

It’s hard for me to be proud of my state ngl

and that's sexist enough to flag

nah, just curbstomping a sexist piece of shit

Abortion is on its way out. Texas is leading the way. The rest of the nation will follow, sooner or later. Thank God.

Abortion isn’t going anywhere. It’ll be here either legally or illegally. The only thing Texas has done is prove that they favor power over equality and choice. They’re only leading the way to even worse outcomes such as denying rights to anyone not heterosexual.

Thank god most states aren’t as ass backwards as Texas

The simple truth is that termination of a human being without its consent is wrong. We ALL have intrinsic rights that society CANNOT tread upon. It doesn't matter your skin color. It doesn't matter your sexuality. It doesn't matter your mental acuity. It shouldn't matter your age. We should all have control over our own destiny. Abortion is fundamentally evil because it violates the principle when we're most defenseless.

I have to ask again, what's going to happen to women who are past that magic 6 weeks mark, where the fetus is brain-dead but still has a heartbeat, is slowly dying inside the woman, and she's getting sepsis but no one will allow her to get a D & C because of this inhumane law? What then? Women are just SOL? Where do women figure in?

"We ALL have intrinsic rights that society CANNOT tread upon"

>advocates to tread on the rights of anyone capable of bearing a child

Destroying a defenseless person is not a right. It's a travesty.

That we took away from their parents? This is what baffles me about the GOP. All this pearl clutching and empathy for the unborn but you all haven't shed a single tear for all the children Trump and Miller ripped away from their parents, who are sitting in cages waiting for their parents, being exposed to covid, being abused and neglected. Where is all this Christian love for immigrant children???

Taking away someone's bodily autonomy is a travesty.

Protect the living, not the ones that have died, nor the ones that have yet to live.

I would argue consent needs to be able to be given away for that to be an argument. A zygote has no sense of self-preservation where a baby does.

So is rape, yet there are less convictions than rapes committed yearly. So is human trafficking, yet less arrests are being made than kidnapped women yearly. So is pedophilia, even less arrests than rapists.

It’s so easy to use the “control your destiny” card. Not so easy to accept that women as we speak are having their destiny controlled by someone else.

If you want to relegate our discussion to those matters then by all means I'm game. But they account for a small percentage of abortions and as such should not be used to formulate general abortion policy. Same goes for any issue.

you know the funny part about what you said?

Texas could have easily just made an exception for cases of rape, and have been done with it. No additional consideration.

But they didn't. They made that law universal.

They had all the time in the world to make it relegated to only woman who had a choice in the matter. Which by your words wouldn't have changed all that much.

But they didn't.

They chose instead to willingly put even rape victims in the same boat as someone being irresponsible. They didn't have to. There was absolutely no reason for them to allow that to happen.

But they did it anyways.

I'm not of the opinion that two wrongs make a right, nor did I intend to take my conversation with Astrovius in that direction before you butted in.

There are are only a small number of school shootings compared to actual murders too. By your logic, making schools safer shouldn’t be all that necessary while capital punishment should be expedited.

But I digress.

When you downplay a relatable, yet ignored, issue based on numbers you show indirect complacency with the bigger picture that led to the need of abortion in the first place.

It astounds me how people think abortion is just a casual decision in the first place.

My logic is that if a wrong is being committed we need to end the wrong. Abortion is wrong. We need to end abortion. School shootings are wrong. We need to end those too. Capital punishment is wrong. We need to end that ASAP. It's consistent logic, so don't try twisting it.

The bottom line is that you're downplaying the harm an abortion causes. Every one ends a human being's life, permanently. Does that mean I think everything leading up to that point is fine and dandy? No!!!!! People need to start being freaking responsible. E.G; an obscene amount of abortions are performed because either the father pressures the mother (if you don't abort I'll leave you) or because the father left in the first place. How can we truly hold the mother responsible for her actions in such a situation??? The father is the real bastard, if you'll forgive my language, in those scenarios. They're real. They happen. They need to end. But until they do, we need to love and support the mother as much as we're able while simultaneously protecting and loving the budding human life that, like it or not, has also been brought into being as well.

Meanwhile outside of fantasy land this won’t ever actually end because the only way men that contribute to the need for abortion will be held accountable is by force. That’s a violation of human and civil rights, the same thing that Texans use to justify abortion bans. So nothing whatsoever will be done. For example, a rapist or pedophile will get a conviction for the deed, but not the seed. (Bad rhyme, I know). By Texas law a girl or woman who was forced into pregnancy will have to go full term or rot in prison with her rapist.

Surely, as a person with sound logic, that sounds pretty wrong to you too right? Rape pregnancies aren’t as plentiful as regular ones but they happen even in Texas. Especially for teen girls with limited knowledge on birth control.

Dude, what are you talking about? Many many men absolutely contribute to ending the need for abortion. Ever heard of NFP? It's being practiced by thousands and thousands of couples every year and that figure grows annually. It is every bit as effective as birth control and often more so, because it works with the body's natural processes rather than just trying to overpower them. So, the notion that men can't voluntarily help end the need for abortion is absurd.

Now, moving on to the subject of rape that you've brought up, NFP obviously won't work. To that I say again; you cannot fix a problem by killing the innocent person involved. Again, I am in no way minimizing the utter travesty it is that someone should have to endure a pregnancy they did not want. But the budding life inside them didn't ask to get made. It hasn't done anything wrong. So we can't blame it for creating this situation. Nor can we blame or punish the mother, because obviously she didn't want to create this situation. The blame lies solely and entirely on the rapist, who (IMO) should automatically be sentenced to life in prison unless the victim decides to commute that sentence.

The cold fact of the matter is that abortion is every bit as horrifying as rape. We've polished it and hidden its ugly sides from our society so we can justify it, but every time we abort we destroy a human being who could have lived a life no different from ours. I sincerely doubt anyone who was aborted would, if able to speak, agree they shouldn't get the same chance at life were were all given by our parents.

I never brought the Constitution into it, thinking that human rights are self-evident and not solely given by four pieces of paper. Since you brought it up though, that document does recognize that the rights to life and the pursuit of happiness (I.E a future not determined by others) are self-evident rights. Unless you're going to join the ranks of people who think a fetus (clearly a human in an early stage of development) is not human despite having its own DNA, growing just like the rest of us, and quite simply not capable of being anything but human, you must respect the innate dignity and rights we all possess.

Since I suspect you were referring to rape specifically, I'll be the last to say any woman who is impregnated against her will needs to just suck it up and deal with it. The fact that happens at all is an utter travesty (rape, in my mind, is every bit as heinous as murder). The reality of a pregnancy though is that a new budding human life has been brought into play, and it specifically needs the mother's body to survive (until future technology advances change that reality).

Two wrongs never make a right. You can't just say, "Sorry kid, if allowed to live you could live a great and fulfilled life, but you weren't meant to be. Prepare to be sucked down a vacuum and thrown into a biodisposal center." We need to respect the dignity of everyone and give everyone the love and support they need. That means the mother. That means the child. Everyone means everyone.

Whether or not something is on the Constitution doesn't necessarily take away from or enhance its validity. James Madison (I believe) opposed having a Bill of Rights at all because he knew some people would take it to be an exhaustive list where only stuff explicitly mentioned counted. That was the reason for the inclusion of the 9th Amendment.

And why, pray tell, is a fetus not human? Explain to me how it is not a stage in the development of a human being.

The obligation to protect life cannot be shirked. Whether it's in the womb, the slums, the battlefield, or Death Row, we cannot allow ourselves to kill people just to make the lives of others less frustrating.

Curious if you are also a gun rights supporter and whether you are self aware of the many contradictions in your argument.

If your God approves of this, then your God is evil.

If you approve the termination of a human being without its consent then you have no grounds to call someone else evil

I don't recall bringing the Bible into this. If you're referencing it because I'm Catholic, then I'd encourage you to look into my Faith and educate yourself a bit about how the Bible fits into the Magisterium (Catholic doctrine and teaching authority) as a whole.

It's fascinating material for anyone interested in some engaging reading, but the short version is that the Old Testament to which you're referring was largely a brutal age whose rules cannot possibly be applied to later times. Plenty of messed up s**t goes down. Since I'm not a professional scholar, and won't pretend to be, I'm not going to try explaining the nuances of the matter or their explanations either. I'd not do the subject the scholarly justice it deserves.

Having established that then, I will not bring religion into the matter unless you choose to do so. It's not like you'd accept any such arguments as valid anyways, since you're atheist if I recall, and it'd be poor form on my part to expect you to accept arguments whose base validity is not something you recognize.

If you approve the subjugation of another human being by way of the imagined rights of an underdeveloped seedling, then I have every right.

Fortunately your view is shared by fewer and fewer every year.

You think far too highly of your point of view. One might even say it's a bit delusional.

I'm honestly surprised at just how acidic you are in this issue. What prompts you and others to so fanatically deny the intrinsic humanity of the first few developmental stages of every human being that ever has, is, or will have been??

And yet when that same child is starving a few years later, Repugs are so quick to want to cut welfare.

What prompts you and others to deny the humanity of women?

I'm acidic about this because this is an unconscionable and horrifying train of thought that puts the rights of living beings under the knife for the pretend sake of the rights of living things.

It's a perverse black mirror of reality that does nothing but subjugate and enslave, and for what? The ego of people that deign to determine what people's worth is.

The ego of people who would never once be subject to this kind of robbery of autonomy, chorused by people who would be subjugated to it, but have been taught that this is a good thing.

It's a breach of human rights under the guise of protecting human rights. It's unethical, unconscionable, and unacceptable.

I don't think that viewpoint is in any way logical, but I'm also reasonably certain I'll never convince you otherwise.

I would say the same for you, but add "vile" on top of that.

Cause this is not a "agree to disagree" moment. Not by a long shot.

"I come here for laughs and respectful conversation"

comes after

"Abortion is on its way out. Texas is leading the way. The rest of the nation will follow, sooner or later."

in the comment's section of a meme that isn't even trying to be funny, but being massively pissed off.

You were looking to pick a fight when you commented

I'm not saying it is. Your views are horrifically incompatible with mine. What I'n saying is that I can see now we'll accomplish nothing but waste each other's time by fighting here. I come here for laughs and respectful conversation, not to mindlessly spew acidic bilge at others.

Got a problem with that? That's cool. We don't need to talk about it though.

i will pray that 'God' will soon call home all conservatives and leave the world to the sane people.

https://i.imgflip.com/5luih5.jpg
One organ is as good as the next, quid pro quo