I'm a rightwing conservative, but this needs to be said

trans girls are girls! also i'm glad that these girls are able to present the way they want and look the way they want

I hold the middle ground position: I will support trans people who pass as the gender they identify as.

I'm with you on this. I don't care if someone wants to transition to another sex. However, if they don't put in the effort, I don't believe they are sincere.

It takes a lot of money to be able to transition, and what about kids? They might not have supportive families or simply aren't able to transition because a thirteen year old probably shouldn't be taking hormones.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor of medicine, I simply research a LOT of stuff for my job; everything below is my opinion based research (which can be easily found online, if interested).

First, children shouldn't attempt to transition or take medication/hormone supplements that would alter their natural development. Doing so seems to have detrimental effects on their bodies (obviously) and mental development (not so obviously). Adults with children should not advocate for this on behalf of their child either! Children need to wait until the chemicals and hormones in their bodies settle, post-puberty, to have the best statistical chance at transitioning in a healthy way mentally and physically. Transitioning tends to be a one way street. While it may be possible to revert back to the way they looked before after the fact, the process of transitioning typically leaves the person sterile... which there is (currently) no coming back from.

You're correct that there are money, health and social issues inherent in committing to a sex change. If someone is going to transition, these are obstacles which they must overcome. This is the reason why I have such respect for those people who go through the process... they are fighting for what they feel will make them complete and have shown they are committed to their believes by taking actions that effect no one but themselves... more power to them.

Those that just say they are but make no attempt to transition... I just can't take seriously. I find them to be fake in the best circumstances or manipulative and/or deviant in the worst circumstances. If they just want to wear woman's clothing, that's a different issue! I have nothing against transvestites but a man who wants to wear makeup, dress and high heals does not, a transgender person, make.

I do agree with your view on transition, but would you respect a trans child’s identity or not? Just because someone hasn’t transitioned doesn’t make them not transgender.
Also, there’s a social transition, which is just telling others your new name and/or pronouns, and having them used. That’s the most that kids can do to transition.

Based largely on child phycology studies, it seems fairly evident that a child (toddler thru teenager) has no solid "identity", as we think of the term. That's the purpose of childhood and even young adulthood... to figure out their identity, which is then refined as adults. Ironically, children develop this by adopting the identities of those around them, some ideal/impressive figure or by being groomed to act in a certain manner. I'm fine with a child thinking they could be transgender, homosexual or a whole host of other examples. However, I think it's foolish to think that children are not ever changing and with personality plasticity that far exceeds that of an adult's.

Encouraging children to play the piano or ride a bike isn't the same as encouraging them to transition as the latter has long-term repercussions if the child looses interest in the pursuit. Altering one's biochemistry is a very tricky thing and something someone should engage in when they are old enough to know what the risks entail.

For adults that merely give transitioning lip service, again, I can't take them seriously. I am respectful in situations where I believe a person is sincere but I distance myself from those who I believe are attempting to manipulate and/or virtue signal by leeching off an identity they haven't earned and have no intention of earning. Which is fine, I suppose... as long as they aren't proselytizing their beliefs on me, I don't care what they do. I just don't usually associate with those people... and from what my trans friend has told me, folks in his community react similarly to those sorts of people.

I do understand what you're saying. A child shouldn't transition until they're fully sure of their identity. They should take the time to explore how they feel about themselves, their bodies, and what gender they want to be perceived as.

Thanks for the pleasant conversation! I really enjoy having a discussion with someone rather than screeching back and fourth... especially on such a controversial topic. Upvotes for you all the way! I'll see you around.

Thank you! I really don't understand why being transgender is so controversial, though...

Should be a law - someone can't transition until puberty stops.

Actually I’m not sure I agree. The only transwomen I’ve seen who really pass well ARE the ones who started transitioning before puberty.

The time to figure out what gender you’d like to be IS in the preteen & teen years. I’m going to have a lot less patience for some old dad who suddenly feels he’s a woman.

Yes, there are health risks, but I don’t see anyone trying to outlaw things like smoking around children. Or trying to outlaw Adderall & Ritalin

I haven’t actually researched transition very much, but puberty blockers exist. After you go through puberty, I think it’s more difficult to transition.

It should. The medial data that indicates the negative impact of individuals screwing with their biochemistry is quite overwhelming. It honestly disgusts me that some doctors (mainly PhDs not MDs) completely disregard it all just to make a quick buck.

Yet we do tolerate people harming their children’s physical and mental health in other ways: nobody is trying to outlaw people smoking around children. We put kids, especially boys, on Adderall & Ritalin the moment they have their first temper tantrum or some bitchy teacher doesn’t like them. And we tolerate people giving their kids stupid invented names that can get them bullied and/or convey negative stereotypes.

Hahaha! Yup... and all that too! Upvote all the way!

The problem is that if we automatically accept all claims of being trans as valid, it makes it impossible to distinguish real trans people from people who are just pretending to be trans.

For example, in the case of my former coworker who identified as a woman - we had no way of telling if that person was really trans. That individual was the first & still only trans person I've ever met IRL. If I had been a lot younger, and didn't know as much about trans people, what I experienced with that person could've given me a much more negative impression of trans people. Not establishing hard boundaries to determine who is and isn't trans will impede acceptance of the trans community.

Maybe… but how much harm can it cause to just use the name and pronouns they say to?

How much would it kill you to at least shave your 5-o'clock shadow? My trans coworker couldn't be bothered to even do that.

Maybe they didn't want to, not everyone presents as the gender they identify as.

https://www.tiktok.com/@gabeadams?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

This guy has no arms or legs, and yet he puts far more effort into appearing feminine than my coworker who actually identified as a woman did. There is no excuse. If you want to be respected as the gender you identify as, then you have to try to look the part. Gender DOES require external recognition from others.

Right. There needs to be a middle ground position between "You have a p**is. You're a guy. F*** all trannies!" and "All claims of being trans are automatically valid. All who disagree are evil bigots!"

About 2 years ago, I had a coworker at my previous job who identified as a woman, but didn't present as a female in any manner whatsoever, & sported more facial hair than I do. We were forced to she/her this person for 4 months. The manager & assistant manager were both gay, and even they grew uncomfortable dealing with this person.

As someone who actually is interested in dating transwomen, I was quite disappointed that this was the first, & still only trans person I've ever met IRL. This person didn't even look like a guy I'd be interested in if I WAS gay. And I went to high school with cis het boys who looked far more feminine than this person.

Even if one of the transgender cuties I follow on TikTok (or other social media) had no arms or legs, & a conjoined twin like those girls on TLC, I would still find that preferable to a normal-bodied person who isn't putting effort into their transition.

I agree with you in every way except biologically.

It's not at all an issue for me until transwomen start competing with biological women in competitive sports... or don't realize they're not equipped to give birth or breastfeed.

What, because biological women are weaker in some way?

Not necessarily. Women TEND to have less tightly bound muscle mass (the quick-twitch vs slow-twitch argument), less dense bones and a wider sacrum as well as TYPICALLY being smaller in stature, having shorter appendages and weighing less.

This is obviously NOT a one-size-fits-all list, nor is it comprehensive when discussing the biological differences between men and women. However, when participating in competitive sports -- especially when one competes for money or acclaim -- these differences make a rather big disadvantage when compared to biological males... especially those who have underwent puberty. At the end of the day, women deserve to be able to compete with other women... men against other men... and I don't see why there can't be a trans league for transgendered folks.

Again, GENERALLY speaking, men are stronger, heavier, more dense and more violent as compared to women. Forcing a biological woman to compete against a man -- or a woman who was born male -- is simply unfair to the women. It doesn't mean an automatic defeat for a woman put in that position but it would be similar to getting into a fight with an arm tied behind your back.

TIKTOK?! DIE DIE DIE!