Defend America?

Actually, we do want vaccines. We just don’t want experimental, emergency vaccines mandated.

"experimental" 🤣 vaccines have been around for almost a century. Anymore Fox News talking points you want to share?

And how many times were these experimental vaccines mandated? Anymore deflections from the subject you want to share?

Imagine believing it's a great idea to spend billions on a figurative rally chant/talking point, while believing it's "tyranny" to spend a few dollars on masks that have been proven effective by medical science. 🤔

Deflecting again, I see.

I haven’t spent a dime on the wall. Walls have been been proven effective by countless societies throughout the centuries. The effectiveness of cloth face masks continues to be debated among medical scientists.

"I haven't spent a dime on the wall."

So you're not a US taxpayer, correct?

"The effectiveness of cloth face masks continues to be debated among medical scientist"

If 9 out of 10 doctors attest to the data proving their effectiveness, it's still "up for debate. " 😏

“So you're not a US taxpayer, correct?”
Yes I’m a tax payer, so I guess you could say I also pay for masks and vaccines. And you are also paying for the wall and have been doing so long before Trump ran for president. I hope you’re not one of the naive leftists who think the border wall is something new. We’ve had one for decades and it has been expanded and repaired the whole time. Why? Because it works to stem the flow of illegal immigration, drugs, human trafficking, etc.

In April, an article published in the Annuals of Internal Medicine came to the conclusion that both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.
They later retraced that article. So, yeah, they have been debating it. Have you not heard Dr Fauci go back and forth on weather or not wearing a face mask is effective?

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying masks and vaccines are ineffective. I believe that, while they won’t completely stop the spread of Covid, they do slow it down and may possibly prevent more mutations like the Delta variant. Just like the wall doesn’t completely stop the flow of illegal crossings, it does slow it down and gives border patrol agents time to intercept and apprehend those who do manage to cross with the wall in place.

That’s the whole point of my comment. To show the two faced lie from the left who claim the wall is a waste of money because it isn’t 100% effective, while they tout the use of vaccines and masks which also are also not 100% effective.

Finally, some honest, rational input. Thank you. 🙏

Masks stop what you spew, not what other spew on you.

"So we leftists want masks and vaccines to protect America from foreign invaders but fling the southern border wide full open to hordes of unvaccinated invaders in the hopes that in the future they will vote Democrat." There . . . fixed it for you.

The pandemic is doing far more damage to America than any illegal immigrant could ever do: 600,000 dead, millions of jobs lost, economic crisis, panic... Maybe if the virus had dark skin you'd feel more threatened?... 😏

Might want to revises that. The millions of jobs lost, economic crisis and panic are due to things like mandatory shutdowns - something the left supports.

Yeeeeeeah. A virus did all those things. Can we bribe the Wuhan virus to stop?

Yeah because nothing says fighting a deadly and contagious airborne virus like rushed up vaccines and a piece of cloth on your face.
Why no emphasis on eating and living healthy? A quick fix isn't always going to help. Boosting one's immunity is a good start.

"Yeah because nothing says fighting a deadly and contagious airborne virus like rushed up vaccines and a piece of cloth on your face."

Let's recap where this began. After this statement, I was 75% sure the person making it was irrational. Over the course of your replies, you removed almost all benefit of doubt.

And still more insults.
I'm still waiting for you to actually give YOUR input regarding the subject.
You want a recap? There is more ways to fight a virus than taking a rushed up experimental vaccine and wearing a cloth mask.
I mentioned the long advised by doctors, eat healthy and exercise as a bonus way to increase your immunity. This is a pandemic, why would you not want to boost your immunity naturally?
I'm saying the cloth mask isn't that good, the Army tear gas mask is a much better choice.
Is this really a bad idea? Is it illogical or irrational?
If you want to let them experiment on you with the rushed up vaccine be my guest. There is no way they can say with certainty that the vaccine is safe when they relatively just started administering it. There is no way of knowing what it will do to you in five or ten years. All they can do is guess.
Being weary of a rushed up vaccine surrounded by politics is no more irrational than saying one is going to die if one does not take it.
Over the course of your replies, I am still waiting for your opinion on the matter.
Why can you not tell me what you think on the subject? You tell me I'm afraid of being wrong, yet you don't even tell me what YOU think.
As someone who made memes about wearing masks and the virus being a "bio-weapon", I thought you would have agreed without delay that a better mask would be much better.

Sorry I dont get my health advice from social media comments.

No, just the media.

Doctors and the CDC are not media.

Science is science and facts is facts. Propping a doctor up to say things that doesn't add up does not make it so.
Do you believe in God?
If not do you believe in evolution?
Do you believe that one or the other gave you a brain?
That grey matter in your head is a complex organ capable of critical thinking, use it.
There is positively no way that mask is going to stop an airborne virus. The germs are too small to be filtered by a mask. If you can breath air through the mask you can breath in germs.
"But surgeons wear a mask."
Yes, they do to stop nasal drainage or saliva. In cold rooms, holding one's head down in deep concentration, it is likely that one might salivate or nose start to run. It is not to stop an airborne virus.
That's why the CDC has full body suits complete with air tanks.

Truth is the sum of facts. I wonder who has the most facts, you... or a conglomerate of experts. In spite of your Pseudo-intellectual posing, you are not smarter than a consensus of doctors and infectious disease experts all with a lifetime's worth of professional knowledge on the subject. You will always be a Pseudo-intellectual because you will never try and actually listen to those who have more knowledge and facts than you. The truth in all areas of your life will always be out of reach because you omit the important facts for one simple reason: personalities like yours can't handle being wrong.

The fact you are ignoring is that I did get my knowledge from doctors and scientists. You simply can not stop airborne germs with a simple mask.
Why do you think the CDC has full body suits complete with air tanks?
Are you seriously denying this fact?
Insult me all you want if it makes you feel better.
As far as being wrong goes, I have admitted it many times in the past. On imgflip included. You say I don't admit I'm wrong, yet you are avoiding my statement regarding the mask. Insulting me does not prove the mask works.

And what vector does the virus use to get from one host to the other?... Water/cell lysate/saliva, aspiration droplets right? A dessicated virus particle without water will deform and be destroyed without the Van der Waals interactions that water provides it. Right? Basic biochemistry principles. Tell me again why doctors wear masks in the sterile operating room.
I get it, you want a "fact fight" . This is some contest for you to win. However the stakes are very high, there are deadly and life altering consequences if you're more interested in winning an internet argument than listening to infectious disease experts.

In the beginning, they said covid was only spread by water droplets. People wearing the mask and abiding by the social distance thing still got sick and many died. How many people are going to have to die before there is a change in gear? Before it is admitted that this thing is airborne?
You don't get anything about me so stop assuming.
The purpose of me asking if you believed you had a brain was to encourage you not to be solely reliant on those who appear to have more credentials than you. You are smart and capable of more than others may give you credit for. I know people who go to college and their "professor" literally just tells them to look it up when they ask the professor a question. That is because said professor was only hired to keep their spouse from leaving the college, and mistreatment is forcing other professors with more talent in one finger than that professor possesses in their entirety. A diploma from that professor probably doesn't mean much.
I had an ingrown toenail a couple years ago and the doc dug a big hole in part of it as a method of toenail removal. I am still having problems with it. A foot specialist said he didn't know why the other doctor did what he did.
My point is that simply having a diploma, or being a doctor, doesn't always mean that they are knowledgeable. A I am not saying all or even the majority are that way.
My point is that you are smart and when something doesn't add up your questioning it should be just as valid as the professionals saying to keep doing the same thing that isn't working.

Also, drop the animosity with me. I am not denying covid. I am saying that the methods being put forth didn't work then and will not work now. We should be on the same side here. I apologize for sounding prickly in the beginning, I was trying to make a point about everyone having brains capable of complex thinking. I wasn't insinuating that you didn't have one.

Right... Im supposed to do the research for you and post here for you to ARGUE with you. See, if you were really interested in finding out THE TRUTH you'd go investigate further. There's no point in talking with people who refuse to listen investigate given the high possibility that they could be wrong about a subject they aren't familiar with. You have zero credibility with me

"Im supposed to do the research for you and post here for you to ARGUE with you."

Actually, I've already did the research, I was asking you if you agreed with it or not. I was asking YOU, not Google, not anyone else, just you, and you can not tell me if you think the Army tear gas mask is better than the cloth mask people wears.
You can not tell me if you think eating healthy and exercising is a good bonus way to boost one's immunity.
All you do is say how expertise experts are, you don't even say their beliefs on such subjects, you don't say anything except insult me.
What am I not listening to? What have you told me that wasn't an insult?
You tell me I'm afraid of being wrong, yet you haven't even told me your opinion on these subjects.
You just say "do you think you know more than experts who spend 10,000 hours on a subject".
You're not even arguing with me, you're like a broken recorder who keeps repeating the same thing over and over.
The truth is the Army tear gas mask is better, no one can deny that. And eating healthy and exercising is a good way to boost one's immunity. Which in a pandemic can't hurt.

You're still here trying to win? Geeze...

You don't even have a concept or understanding of what "expert" means, after I just layed it out for you in plain English. "10,000 hours of dedicated thought and critical thinking in a subject."

You really feel that you can out think an expert, or the entire collection of experts, in their own field of research? You really believe that you are capable of making better informed health decisions than the overwhelming majority of medical doctors? 😏

Do tou think your opinion pertaining to doctors, medical science, and infectious disease is formed by an equal amount of facts, knowledge, and experience as theirs?

No, you're just citing a few supporting, cherry-picked sound bites and click bait titles. You have no knowledge base upon which vet and scrutinize information in a medical research setting. The only thing you have to go on is "is he on my team?(blue or red)" "Does this fact support my team's position?"
How in the heck are you to determine who knows their subject matter?
See, to kids, it ain't about uncovering the truth or finding vital information that has utility or usefulness in guiding your decisions. No, it's just something to try and " own the libs" with in an immature meme fact fight.

When you don't know who to trust, do you belive the conartists who tell you not to trust the experts (those who truly know their subject matter) ?

Is this your first time to actually be challenged with real critical thinking?

Look I get it, you want to be smart, you want to be a bad ass, because you don't want this world to take advantage of you and eat you up.

Relax, reputation on a meme site is not important.

It's not like you're standing in front of an auditorium full of seasoned medical experts as they thoroughly try to pick apart your research, ensuring that you've comprehensively tried to debunk your own findings.

You think it's gonna slip under their radar when you cherry-pick the science you like: "diet and exercise" and throw out the science you don't like on germ theory and personal protective guidelines during a pandemic?

Get that crap out a here. Lol

There are very rigorous vetting processes experts have to face. They wouldn't even grant you an audience seeing that you haven't even made a commitment of time and resources to the field like they have.

"You're still here trying to win? Geeze..."
If getting you to think for yourself counts, yes, call it whatever you want.

What is your problem here?
The media, experts, or someone said to wear the mask. People did and people still kept getting covid and many died.
Are you in denial of that?
If the masks worked that wouldn't have happened.
You do not have to be an expert with 10,000 hours on the subject to figure out we need better gear.
Your hiding behind "experts" and putting me down is not refuting this glaring fact.
I am not saying masks don't work, just the flimsy cloth ones most people wears, a better quality mask will work much better.
Do you really disagree with that?
Or do you need to have 10,000 hours worth of expert studying to figure that one out?

"When you don't know who to trust, do you belive the conartists who tell you not to trust the experts (those who truly know their subject matter) ?"

I suppose I'm the con-artist here. Tell me how many people must die before you start questioning the quality of your gear?

"Is this your first time to actually be challenged with real critical thinking?"

Don't flatter yourself buddy, all you have been doing is referencing how expertise experts are and insulting me. You have done nothing except side step my points with insults. And by insulting me you cripple everyone else by making them out to be solely dependent on these "experts".
Yet your strong support of experts turns into blatant dismissal when experts disagrees with the narrative being pushed.
You would make censorship enforcers so proud.

So you're saying one shouldn't even bother with healthy eating and exercising as a BONUS way to increase one's immunity instead of being SOLELY reliant on masks and social distancing?
You literally just trashed the advice of countless doctors in the past.
Just live on meds, contribute to antibiotic resistance, because you are not going to put forth the effort to help keep yourself healthy.

"No, it's just something to try and " own the libs" with in an immature meme fact fight."
Where in any of my comments did I try to do that?
If you see this as a republican vs democrat issue then that is your fault. Some of us focus on the big picture where there is no such petty differences such as political affiliation.

"See, to kids, it ain't about uncovering the truth or finding vital information that has utility or usefulness in guiding your decisions"

I have presented useful information, you just insult me.

Do you think the experts in *an entire field of research* never consider the same questions and concerns that the general public can think up? A scientific investigators job is to ask questions and find viable solutions pertaining to an area of research. But after 10,000 dedicated hours of study and professional exposure to a subject, the experts never once arrived on the same questions asked by "Noobs" with a few passing thoughts on the subject?

Why not leave it to the experts to ask and answer the important and difficult questions?

People with wealth hire experts to do the thinking, find solutions, and make decisions for them--it's called a "company." They don't have the time to think in-depth over so many subjects, they have to hire someone to think for them.

How do they keep us "little guys" down? They pay media influencers to train and influence us not to trust the publicly-funded expertise available to us. Then we make uninformed decisions, and we lose, and we pay for it.

What if I told you an expert in the medical field at MEPS told us to take off the mask, that we didn't need them? He said he wasn't afraid of anything in the air. He said the mask will not stop the germs in the air. He is an expert and he works with experts.

General public?
No, the public in general is parroting what the media says. They get sick with covid despite following the scant guidelines 100% and they blame their getting sick on other people who didn't comply.
Perhaps this level of thinking is too much and you require an expert, but a better mask would do a much better job. The Army gas mask for example. It blocks tear gas, tear gas is an aerosol, which is the same stuff that even the n95 can't stop. Perhaps you should also leave the reading and comprehension to the experts since you clearly overlooked this part in my earlier comment.
"The fact you are ignoring is that I did get my knowledge from doctors and scientists."

In the past doctors have ALWAYS said to eat healthy and exercise, why? Because it will help keep you healthy of course! But what do the politicians do during quarantine? They close gyms and keep supersize me McDonald's open.
Oh dear, I seem to be out of my jurisdiction now, I'm thinking again and good slaves don't question the state. They just mindlessly submit.

Listen to me buddy, a lot of people have died and gotten sick from taking the advice of "experts". How long must people blindly keep doing the same ineffective thing! Do you need to be an expert to figure this out? If you can't piece that much together how on Earth do you function without someone holding your hand, guiding you through everything?
I don't give a fig about winning an online argument with someone who could be a professional troll for all I know.
My family lives in constant fear of this covid. I know people who has got it, a relative died from it, and all they get told is to keep doing the same ineffective thing.
If you keep running your head into the tree I'm sure you will, eventually, uproot it.

Your dismissal of individual people's knowledge is interesting. Are you not aware regular people have uncovered problems? Take Erin Brokovich for example.

"Why not leave it to the experts to ask and answer the important and difficult questions?"
Because it's not working, yet people blindly keeps doing the same thing.
You make such a good slave.

Perhaps they are finally putting it out that covid is airborne.

The problem with your argument is the use of absolutes. It’s similar to leftists who claim a border wall is worthless since is can’t completely stop illegal immigration and smuggling.

Nobody claims that face masks are 100% effective. But they do provide some protection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33087517/

I am sorry that my argument sounded absolute, it was not my intent. At least, not entirely.
I did say the masks most people wears can not stop airborne germs and I stand behind that statement. But I did not say it didn't stop water droplets. Although I have a hard time seeing those loose floppy ones people wears stopping a sneeze droplets anymore than covering one's mouth with a tissue.
The link you gave seems to downplay the ability of a small airborne germ. Perhaps it is because of my misunderstanding of aerosols. The link mentions droplet/aerosol but not airborne germs. It mentioned an airborne simulation but it only mentions droplet/aerosol effectiveness.
But perhaps aerosol is the same thing as airborne. It appears to be based on this:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/aerosol-airborne-droplets-amid-covid-19/story?id=73250018

In which case, I still do not see how a mask, even the n95, will stop any airborne germs.
Is that where the absolutes kick in or was it sounding like I said the mask didn't stop anything?

I suppose the usefulness of the mask depends on some other factors. My relative, a strong believer in the mask, says it only takes one germ to spread it to another. And she always says she gets her info from reliable sources. If your immunity cannot fight off one covid bacterial cell, then it seems the mask is ineffective. Even if it blocks 99% of all germs, airborne and or other.
(Although I doubt she recognized the contradiction in her statement. People says everything regarding covid. And what's worse, they believe it, regardless of the glaring contradictions.)
However, if it was a respirator mask that indeed blocks most of germ bacteria, and your immunity can handle the rest, then it is effective.
Having said that, why isn't a healthy lifestyle to boost one's immunity also mentioned?
The other guy brushed it off when I brought the subject up. Yet that has been the advice of doctors in the past. For example drinking water helps prevent UTI's, bloodclots, and other health problems. Exercising is good too.
Yet gyms were closed and McDonald's was kept open. No emphasis on healthy living was mentioned. No boosting one's immunity. Just wear the mask and social distance.
When fighting a total war I say use every weapon at your disposal. Why is healthy eating and exercising not emphasized now?

Part 2
There are people who acts like you doom everyone if you don't wear a mask. And there are people who gets covid despite following the guidelines 100%, and they blame it on another person for not abiding by the guidelines.
That irritates the hell out of me.
If soldiers are wearing a respirator mask to block an incoming wave of teargas and the teargas gets at them, you're not going to blame your getting gassed because Charlie beside you didn't strap his on correctly. You're going to question the quality of your gear.
Yet with covid, that isn't the case. Few are questioning the quality of their gear.
And I'm a "pseudo-intellectual" for questioning what "experts" said.
Well when cases keep rising and people are dying despite abiding by the guidelines is it safe to say other tactics should be considered? Or does one need to be an expert to figure that one out?

Hehe. As a Star Wars fan I couldn't resist and thought of it almost immediately.

"Do you believe that one or the other gave you a brain?
That grey matter in your head is a complex organ capable of critical thinking, use it.
There is positively no way that mask is going to stop an airborne virus"

Big tough guy who throws insults, complains about being insulted. 😅

By the way, kid, my position is in total agreement with scientists and researchers at public health institutes, so maybe take your little pseudo-intellectual "fact fight" over to their institutions?

I'm obviously no match for your superior intellect...

I also said:
"The purpose of me asking if you believed you had a brain was to encourage you not to be solely reliant on those who appear to have more credentials than you. You are smart and capable of more than others may give you credit for."
And:
"We should be on the same side here. I apologize for sounding prickly in the beginning, I was trying to make a point about everyone having brains capable of complex thinking. I wasn't insinuating that you didn't have one."

I don't care if you insult me or not, but I have yet to hear YOUR opinion on the matter.

"my position is in total agreement with scientists and researchers at public health institutes,"
Do you realize how vague of an answer this is?
Doctors rarely fully agree with each other.
I mean I could take it that you agree with me that healthy eating and exercising is a good bonus way to boost one's immunity. And that the cloth mask is not effective enough and that the army tear gas would be much more better.

You don't need to be a scientist to figure out that there hasn't been enough time to say the vaccine is safe. Who knows what side effects it might cause in a few years.
The FDA said Anthrax was safe, but then it was later ruled that the FDA didn't even follow it's own guidelines of approval. So that is how credible their approval is.

"I'm obviously no match for your superior intellect..."
You are definitely a master at dodging questions.

"You don't need to be a scientist to figure out that there hasn't been enough time to say the vaccine is safe"

And see that right there is your huge misconception. One DOES need to be an immunologist to understand the science to make a decision based on that science. YOU, the layman, doesn't have even a basic grasp of such a complex subject

You're like a grunt who believes they can make the decisions that a commanding officer or a general makes, and then end up getting yourself and everyone who listens to you KIA.

Why don't I answer your questions?

What's the point of answering? You don't trust science and scientists, so you're not going to listen to or believe my answers.

Are you incapable of answering your own silly questions, is that why you need my answer?

This current evolution of this virus is here to wreck, mame, and kill the foolish and those who are too stubborn to listen to wisdom. Darwinism in the information age...😏

"And see that right there is your huge misconception. One DOES need to be an immunologist to understand the science to make a decision based on that science."

So they have time machines to travel forward in time to check the long term safety and effectiveness of the vaccine?
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
You're right, one does need medical knowledge to develop vaccines.
But they also need time.
I thought vaccines took a long time to get proper approval.

"YOU, the layman, doesn't have even a basic grasp of such a complex subject"
Imagine a process being so complex, that it takes less than a year to develop and partially approve.

"What's the point of answering? You don't trust science and scientists, so you're not going to listen to or believe my answers."
And I literally said that I get my info from past doctors and scientists.
Scientists have developed the Army tear gas mask to block aerosols.
Doctors and scientists have determined that eating healthy and exercising works wonders at improving one's health and boosting one's own immunity.

I think it's just that you're afraid that if you agree on those points it will look like you're wrong and I'm right. And after all the "pseudo intellectual layman" talk, you're not about to admit I have some good points.
So you opt to go after my weakest point of challenging the safety of the vaccine because it is easier to refute.
You're right, I don't have much knowledge on how vaccines are developed. But I do know from past creations it takes some significant time to study the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine.

"Are you incapable of answering your own silly questions, is that why you need my answer?"
After your plethora of insults I would like some acknowledgement that we need better gear, and eating healthy / exercising can't hurt.

"This current evolution of this virus is here to wreck, mame, and kill the foolish and those who are too stubborn to listen to wisdom. Darwinism in the information age.."
Like people who think you can fight a bio-weapon with a flimsy cloth mask.
That is like fighting a Kodiak Bear with a pocket knife. You would be better off with a spear, likewise the Army tear gas mask is a much better choice.

Of course... I don't expect that you will go investigate and find out how scientist arrived at making a decision about masks. You won't go look at data showing it's efficacy.

You view the truth as "insults." 🙄

Do you have any ethical concerns or responsibility after giving others bad advice that kills them or seriously injures them?

So exchanging the cloth mask for the Army tear gas mask is bad and will result in more deaths and injuries?

Just like illness was brought over and helped kill the Native Americans, Mass immigration, and Mass Travel will spread illness to America and across the world. Those poor enough never have the money to leave the state they live in. The poor are lucky enough to take 6 major trips within their lifetime.