Was Trump right? Nope

How soon they forget!
Upvoting!

Hey no fair bringing facts! They hate facts

Funny that people dismiss Trump's tweets until he writes one that helps them.

I'd probably like Trump better if I had paid less attention to his tweets.

Better to have everyone think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

I ignore virtually all media posts by politicians unless it directly and tangibly relates to policy decisions, not personal opinions. They're allowed to have their personal views and I'll grant everyone the dignity of separating the two when it comes to judging him.

Hence why I think people will realize, sooner or later, that the only thing separating Trump from every other President they dislike is how 'New Yorker-ish' he was; that is to say, once they realize his persona was a lot more overblown than his actual policy, they'll realize that it's impossible for any one man to screw over the U.S.A's rock-solid political system. :)

I don't fully disagree with you. Many of his more outlandish statements he didn't follow up with policy. But there are a lot of people who have gone of the depend with the fake news and hero worship.

Combine that with the election fraud lies...

Politicians are allowed their opinions but spreading lies is a no go. They all lie but Trump doesn't admit it. When called on a lie he doubles down.

The issue even there is that politicians can largely say what they want, especially as it relates to other politicians, because the bar for defamation against a political character is extremely high in our justice system. So he quite seriously was allowed to say what he did, it's just a shame so many people on both sides took it as law.

I think I saw on the BBC that over 22,000 Trump tweets were factually incorrect in some way. Now, I know the BBC is somewhat biased to the liberal side of the spectrum, but even if you cut the figure in half (which I guarantee is far too low a resulting number of tweets) that's a LOT of misleading personal statements people took to be gospel.

C'est la vie.

Alleged left wing bias plays no part in that fact of the number of tweets he wrote that were misleading. Even so, BBC is pretty centrist and yes, centrist is left of you.

That said... scratching my head as to why you're defending all of those lies. The reason why that number is significant is because no one lies as much as Trump did.

First off, I wasn't trying to discredit the BBC. I was noting that they were left of my (and Trump's) position on a lot of matters.

Secondly, I never once said or implied that I had a position on any of Trump's tweets. I in fact noted that they were misleading, so I'm scratching my head in turn as to how you arrived at the opposite conclusion. My sole point was that he had a right to say what he did. That's not up for debate or a matter of opinion, it's basic fact as determined by U.S law.

Apologies, it seemed like you were attempting to downplay the effect his tweets has had on our country and its people.

Nope. You're good.

My brother's in-laws (don't know if there is a word for that) are big MAGA. I wasn't arguing with them, but they had put out something fairly ridiculous and I was like "nah, that isn't true."

So of course, I'm a sheeple because its all fake news. < BTW calling people sheeple is about the closest thing someone can do for me to pretty much write them off.

So, I pointed out his lawsuit with New York for misspending money that was supposed to be charity. Fake News. Really? Here's the settlement that was published by the state signed by both parties. Nope, its fake.

So, yes, it exists on both sides...but Trump seemingly cultivated people who were willing to dismiss all news as Fake news. Now, they didn't need a lot of cultivating, because this flat out 100% distrust of the media has been brewing for a while. But it is still the most concerning thing to me. Facts don't matter. His followers (hate to use the term, but it is accurate) aren't skeptical - they just choose what they want to believe. Its hard to debate people or come to middle ground with people like that.

Brothers-in-law, I believe...it's a very odd phrase...but anyways, you're correct; it's tough to dismiss someone as a fanatic, because that's a very charged phrase, but there are absolutely a LOT of people who took everything he said or insinuated as gospel.

I live in Montana, which is basically a bastion of Republican votes as far as the national scene is concerned (we elect a lot of local Democrats, but that's because our Democrats are largely very moderate compared to those on the national level), so I definitely see the insane devotion to Trump on a daily basis. A lot of my family is 100% behind him even after all the craziness that's gone down lately...

As you say, you can't argue with someone who refuses to be convinced.

The issue was is that too many people in the right took it as gospel. The left had t to take it as gospel to counter what the loud demographic of the Trump cult was espousing and to warn other people what this group was thinking.

Much of the right think BLM is racist and inherently Marxist and wants to destroy the nuclear family. All misleading.
Much of the right believes ANTIFA are an organization of violent terrorist thugs.
Much of the right thinks Biden cheated in the election.
Much of the right thinks that the eveonline was good because of Trump, it wasn't.

Need I go on?

My simple rebuttal to that is, 'so what'? If you bring yourself down to the level of your opponent you're no better than they are, as far as how I feel about the left reverting to shouting down the right.

As far as the content of each of those claims, well, there's already a colloquialism that hits the nail on the head, "The best lies have a grain of truth in them.".

BLM as an organization is indeed neither racist, Marxist, or opposed to the nuclear family. However, key members and moderate numbers of those who claim the BLM banner as their own do indeed espouse those views, hence the popular view of the organization as a whole..

ANTIFA is the one example you provided where I'll disagree wholeheartedly; its members by and large *are* nothing but violent anarchist thugs who deserve nothing but prison time.

Most people know that Biden didn't cheat on a large scale, but it's easier to use such an excuse to discredit the opposition, hence its popularity (so far as I can tell). After all, flip this current discussion about voter fraud on its head and you are suddenly back in 2016 when the Dems were whining about Trump´s allegedly-fraudulent victory and the right smugly asserting our elections were absolutely secure. It's willful hypocrisy and blindness.

EVE online is amazing, and if a meme empire devoted to Trump ever arose (and if I ever buy a PC) then I'd absolutely join it for the laughs. It's certainly a stretch at best though to say Trump somehow boosted the game's success because of something he did. It's just a cool game.

Nah, we've beaten everything to death already.

The eveonline was a typo! xD Sorry. I meant to write *economy.

I ascribe to what ANTIFA stands for. But, I do not meet any of the description you present to define who and what they are.

The whole thing about BLM seeking to destroy the nuclear family was actually a misrepresentation of what was written in their statement before they took it down. It said nothing about seeking to destroy the nuclear family, but something more to the effect of "We disrupt the prescribed practice of the nuclear family by raising each other up..." Or something like that which was more a statement that they follow the "It takes a village..." Some of the leaders were "Trained Marxists." So what does that mean? Does it mean that they're seeking to fundamentally change our socioeconomic landscape? No. It just means that they actually read Das Kapital. (at the minimum.)
Claiming BLM is racist is just laughably erroneous..

Dangit!! I thought Trump had done something to EVEonline, which has a better economy than some small countries...lolol

The issue with ANTIFA is they're a bad solution looking for a non-existent problem. There is no fascism in the U.S. For that to be true there would need to be copious amounts of power concentrated into a single or few entities, and we live in a nation with over 40,000 individual governments to run affairs. Those aren't bureaucrats under the thumb of Washington D.C or a state governor, but individual governments elected by their local citizens and with their own scope of authority outside the reach of anyone else. This country, more than any one earth, is impervious to any attempts to make it some sort of petty-despot's playground.

Hence why I loathe ANTIFA. They do nothing but cause malevolent chaos and serious damage at a time when we need the exact opposite in this nation. The only thing separating them from various right and left-wing militias is that they seem to be true anarchists, rather than fascists, so I'll at least give them credit for sticking true to their message.

As far as BLM goes, I really don't care...it's not an organization I've ever really taken a huge stance on either way, because I'm already committed to the 100% civil equality of all U.S citizens and I dislike the notion that my failure to overtly support them somehow means I oppose them as a result. Its internal troubles are its own to sort out, as far as I'm concerned.

"The issue with ANTIFA is they're a bad solution looking for a non-existent problem. There is no fascism in the U.S. For that to be true there would need to be copious amounts of power concentrated into a single or few entities, and we live in a nation with over 40,000 individual governments to run affairs. Those aren't bureaucrats under the thumb of Washington D.C or a state governor, but individual governments elected by their local citizens and with their own scope of authority outside the reach of anyone else."
Um. I have to 100% disagree with you on that. I seem to remember, for instance, Trump refusing to send aid to California for their wild fires. I seem to remember Trump sending unmarked, unnamed, unbadged, "marshals" rounding up people in vans in Portland and beating them senseless. Arresting prow for peacefully protesting and not rioting.

"This country, more than any one earth, is impervious to any attempts to make it some sort of petty-despot's playground."
Again, I disagree. Trump was taunting any Democrat state he could into open rebellion.

"Hence why I loathe ANTIFA. They do nothing but cause malevolent chaos and serious damage at a time when we need the exact opposite in this nation."
Interesting, you must loathe proud boys, patriot prayer, 3%ers, and party keepers? Then? Because ANTIFA is reactionary in their activism.
"The only thing separating them from various right and left-wing militias is that they seem to be true anarchists, rather than fascists, so I'll at least give them credit for sticking true to their message."

Untrue, if they appear as anarchist, it's because the government is fascist. Where did you hear about all of these things about antifa? Where did they hear it? https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/antifa-terrorist-organization-or-pres-trumps-scapegoat/

The Feds have been given authority by Congress to undertake such measures though. That's not so much a despotic amalgamation of power as it is a potentially-abusive use of that power. It's a minor distinction, but a distinction it remains.

Not a single state rebelled, which proves my point; the most powerful man on earth couldn't break our system.

Yeah, I oppose ALL fringe groups who seek to undermine our legitimate democratic process. I don't care what side they're on; it's all too far along their end of the spectrum.

YouTube, man. The overwhelming majority of YT clips I've watched have either showcased violent actions or hateful speech against legitimate authority at multiple levels of government. It doesn't seemingly matter where they are; ANTIFA attracts scum who have no respect for the ideal of a democratic republic that supports the free and open exchange of views as we have in this country. I refuse to show them any respect in turn.

So, what makes you sure they're "ANTIFA?" and not counter Protesters? How can you be sure that those "ANTIFA" have the same agenda as the next?

Seems to me that ANTIFA was used largely as a scapegoat by Trump to paint this baiting message of who and what ANTIFA are. You're describing something that doesn't match what I associate with or have associated with. How can you be sure that they represent everyone who follows ANTIFA? You can't, because it's not an organization, it's not something you sign up for. You just are or you aren't. ANTIFA has only been known about since the Charlottesville riot in 2017 where ANTIFA had shown up as a response to White Supremacy. Primarily, that's where you find ANTIFA. If you find white supremacists, there'll be ANTIFA right there, counter-protesting that shit.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10839/2

What makes me sure is that these idiots are screaming all manner of anti-government, anti-law, and [less so, but still very often] anti-right. As the report indicates, their fundamental message and mistrust of government by its very nature lends itself to anarchistic opposition to lawful authority. I don't care what Trump says about them; I don't treat his word as gospel. I make this determination because you can see them doing the exact same BS all over the country. Referring again to the report, I'd further say that their name as a group isn't as important, since you pointed out that they've only been around for four years. Big deal. They are the latest in a conga-line of hate-filled counter-protestors who hide behind a veil of illegitimacy as a group when confronted with all the illegal actions caused by those flying their banner.

From your link

"Much antifa activity involves nonviolent protest such as
hanging posters, delivering speeches, and marching. As a
core purpose, antifa groups

_track and react_ [highlighting this]

to the activities
of individuals or groups they see as advocating fascist
views, such as neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, white
supremacists, and white nationalists. Antifa adherents
believe that civil liberties protections provide safe harbor to
ideas and people bent on harming vulnerable populations in
the United States. Thus, antifa followers tend not to accept
that the conventional capacities of American society will
thwart the rise of fascist movements. They lack faith in the
ability of federal, state, or local governments to properly
investigate or prosecute fascists who break the law,
especially during shows of force at public marches."

Yes, because much like BLM there are absolutely people who espouse the overarching view that fascism is wrong and want to peacefully express that. No issues with them. If you read a liiiittle further down in the report though you'll note that it says ANTIFA members often resort to illegal actions in order to accomplish their aims. Not 'rarely', not 'occasionally', but often enough to warrant FBI investigation as an anarchistic extremist group.

So, we have a group that remains decentralized and hidden behind a 'we don't exist' smokescreen, yet is highly visible across the country. They believe that the lawfully-in-power government has failed them and are largely willing to resort to illegal acts (read: violent, obstructive, or disruptive of the general peace) in order to remedy the perceived injustice (which I will note is often real to varying degrees as well). The FBI is investigating them because ANTIFA has been unable to stymie the perception that ANTIFA doesn't support these illegal acts. After all...they're just an idea...an idea can't have views of its own, just followers.../s

That warrants investigation is the operative phrase here. This doesn't make them guilty

Of course it doesn't, but it's a very very safe bet that ANTIFA has damned itself to history as a result.

No, Trump made identifying ANTIFA as an enemy a unifying cause. I said people really didn't know about ANTIFA until 2017. They've b been in PDX since at least 08. Trump made them out to be an organization to scape goat once he took office as they opposed the fascist groups that supported him. This gave them an umbrella to start violence and then blame ANTIFA. Reference Proud Boys promotion requirement in getting in a fight with ANTIFA.

When was Trump inaugurated again...?

Why would ANTIFA have been committing violent acts before Trump took office anyways? I highly doubt they largely considered Obama to have been a fascist...no need to act if you don't see anything to act on. Police and local governments were largely respected at that time too, so there really was nothing to oppose without shooting themselves in the public view by taking a purely anarchistic stance.

That's why their violent footprint has exploded since Trump took office. With the rise of right-wing extremism comes a similar rise on the left. ANTIFA refuses to curb its own violence, and in doing so renders itself no better than the PB's or any other militia out there on either side. Domestic anarchistic terrorists the lot of 'em, I say.

Trump was inaugurated on January 20th, 2017.

"Why would ANTIFA have been committing violent acts before Trump took office anyways?"
》you're proving my point. You're assuming automatic guilt.
"I highly doubt they largely considered Obama to have been a fascist.."
》you're implying that they oppose presidents. You're making my point very clear.
"no need to act if you don't see anything to act on. Police and local governments were largely respected at that time too, so there really was nothing to oppose without shooting themselves in the public view by taking a purely anarchistic stance."
》uh wow. I'm hearing from your arguments that you need to research the profound of BLM and look up ANTIFA activity more thoroughly beyond what a Republican congress says about them.

"That's why their violent footprint has exploded since Trump took office. "
》reference my image below. "Identifying enemies as a unifying cause" This didn't happen until Trump took office because he lacked the genuine power to do so. Once he was inaugurated, the campaign to demonize them took off.
"With the rise of right-wing extremism comes a similar rise on the left. ANTIFA refuses to curb its own violence, and in doing so renders itself no better than the PB's or any other militia out there on either side. Domestic anarchistic terrorists the lot of 'em, I say."
》you're talking what Trump says as Gospel. If, as the report suggests, they are reactionary to fascist groups like proud boys, patriot prayer, et al, (people who attacked the Capitol and are actual terrorists] how can they be terrorists for opposing them?

"Trump was inaugurated on January 20th, 2017."
》funny how ANTIFA activity never changed from Obama to then. But now since they oppose groups that carry Trump flags theyre public enemy.. HMMMMMMMM

No, I'm not proving your point or assuming automatic guilt about anything. The sole purpose of that sentence was to show that I'm aware ANTIFA has been around for quite a while, while acknowledging that they'd not hit the national spotlight until Trump's term because there was nowhere near the societal conditions (not President in office, but societal conditions *influenced* by the President) necessary (in their eyes) to warrant ramping up activity.

No, I'm not sourcing my views from a Republican congress...try to keep yourself impartial here. It is very much fact that police enjoyed a large degree of community support before Trump took office and a greater spotlight was shined on instances of police brutality. BLM (which I didn't mention, by the way...dunno why you brought it up) as a hashtag on twitter got started in 2013, for crying out loud. That wasn't even a decade ago. The entire point, which you apparently missed, was that times change and they change fast.

They're not terrorists for opposing the Proud Boys, and I again am sourcing none of this from what Trump says about anything. I use the terror label because terrorism is any use of force intended to influence or subvert government policy. That's the dictionary definition of the word. ANTIFA is dissatisfied with the current state of affairs in this nation and has shown a demonstrable and repeated willingness, according to the FBI, to use violence in order to effect change. I will not accord any respect to someone who refuses to work within the law when legal avenues to achieving desired change clearly exist.

Police brutality has been going on since police as a U.S institution were invented, yet public opinion of them (in the last two decades, at least) has clearly shown a serious downward trend since 2013. The only change, as I mentioned before, is that the media has been better about spotlighting abuses of power. Similarly, when Trump took office and railed against ANTIFA, it not only lent power via exposure to the group (an excellent fuel for a decentralized movement) it sparked an increase in far-right attempts to 'combat' this now-popularized group. Therefore ANTIFA became even more active in turn, and their decentralized nature means plenty of self-identifying radicals committing violent acts and being investigated/charged for it are a natural result.

"LEAKED DOCUMENTS SHOW POLICE KNEW FAR-RIGHT EXTREMISTS WERE THE REAL THREAT AT PROTESTS, NOT “ANTIFA”"(2020)
https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/

FBI warned of white supremacists in law enforcement 10 years ago. Has anything changed? (2016)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

Far-Right Infiltrators and Agitators in George Floyd Protests: Indicators of White Supremacists (2020)
https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-right-infiltrators-and-agitators-in-george-floyd-protests-indicators-of-white-supremacists/

FBI chief says U.S. 'Antifa' demonstrators are targets of multiple probes (2020)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-threats/fbi-chief-says-u-s-antifa-demonstrators-are-targets-of-multiple-probes-idUSKCN26F3C2

3 with ties to white extremism accused of plotting mayhem at protests (2020)
https://www.ajc.com/news/with-ties-white-extremism-accused-plotting-mayhem-protests/GdtpTjwVaapgVZihVtNWeI/

Police: Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists disguised as Black Lives Matter (2020)
https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/

DHS draft document: White supremacists are greatest terror threat
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2b9Qo88UI(edited)
40+ New Police Brutality videos emerge during the George Floyd Protests
623,577 views•May 31, 2020

"President XI... I like that. Naming presidents with Roman numerals. Anybody know what 45 is in Roman numerals? I want people to start calling me President Whatever 45 Is In Roman Numerals"

1jciib.jpg (click to show)

I almost explained that Xi was the president of China, not a Roman numeral before I noticed the quotes and realized the joke.

I’m not saying he was never right. I’m objecting to the “all along”. I also commented on the original post.

It most likely is natural, not man made, but there is interest in whether it was released from the lab. I’m personally not sure what proof they will possibly find in the lab one year later. We will see though.

Nobody ever said not to protect our borders - we just think a wall is a cost prohibitive way of doing it. I think a combination of drones, aerostats, and patrols are the way to go.

Lots of people have said to bring manufacturing home - he was also negotiating a trade deal with China that wasn’t going to do that at all.

Energy independent - we all want that.

Democrats are the racists - hard to argue opinion. a glance at the diversity of each parties elected officials is circumstantial evidence in my favor. But maybe we are...I guess we should go back to the shit-hole countries we came from?

Pretending Trump is some sort of Oracle who was always right takes some serious Cherry picking.