Hey Internet

never had this many comments
i love tangent conversations
anyway back to talking an immature 40 year old into the importance of remaining level-headed in an argument
he keeps saying im involved with a leftist fifth column because I'm telling him he needs to state his beliefs with less emotion and more thought
and he ends every message
with the exact same acronym
"SMHID"
I guess he thinks that makes his point more valid

Oof

It's about time someone says something like this because I could never find the right words to explain how I, a follower of Christ, views lgbtq+ people.

https://reformationproject.org/biblical-case/ Read and come back

Ah, a fellow Calvinist. So am I. What is your confession?

Confession? Wdym?

Confessions are statements that Protestant Christians believe in, but in a more comprehensive collection. You are familiar with the Apostle's Creed, and the Statement of Faith in your church's website? Confessions are an entire list of doctrines Christians need to believe in, in order to safeguard them from erroneous teachings

For example, there is a biblical view of the Church, which means, the spiritual body of Christ, but there is an all-too-common view that the church is either an organization, or a building. Confessions such as the Westminster, Heidelburg, or and the 1689 London Baptist define what the church is.

I believe all who devote their lives to Jesus and trust in Him as their savior will be saved. Simple as that.

Including Catholics who have a different Gospel than we do (Galatians 1:6-9)? They believe that a person is saved by Faith and Works.

As a Calvinist, you are also a Protestant for Calvinists are Protestants. They believe in Faith + Works (Romans 11:6 & Galatians 5:4), and we believe in what's called "Sola Fide", Salvation by Faith Alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Sola Fide, is one of Five Solas that Calvinists believe in, which were made as a counter to Catholic theology which is against scripture.

Have you arrived to your ecumenical conclusion by scripture alone (Sola Scriptura - 2 Timothy 3:16-17), or by what you were told, how you've felt, and what is in your heart (Isaiah 55:8-9 & Jeremiah 17:9)?

I believe I have come to this conclusion by studying Scripture.

So when you read Galatians 3:10-13, and read their Catechism of the Catholic Church, can you honestly keep that same conclusion?

Huh? Let's look at my original statement: "I believe all who devote their lives to Jesus and trust in Him as their savior will be saved. Simple as that." My meaning here was to be a fully competent follower of Christ, one must pick up their cross and follow him, a common truth found in Scripture. I'm not saying one can save themselves through works, that's heresy.

I wanted to address that in the fashion that I have given because Catholics and others can say the same thing.

If you ask them, or lets a cult group Jehovah's Witness "How are we saved?" They'll say, we believe as you do, we're saved by Faith". Notice that they did not say the word "Alone". What they're trying to do is to mask their gospel to make it seem that it's like ours.

Not only that, the site you've given me is a ecumenical site so I can only assume that you're in agreement with it.

I must go, but I'll talk to you later

I've said I don't agree with the site. I think my Christian beliefs are clear. I am Baptist. I am a Calvinist. I believe all who devote their lives to Jesus and trust in Him as their savior will be saved. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

Not only that, each one is supported by scripture. There is also what's called a "Catechism"; it is a Confession, but in a Q & A form.

Sorry, by the word "Reformation" I presumed that your soteriology are the same as mine.

i'm calvinist you're not wrong. did u read the page?

I've glanced at it, it is an inclusion of the LGBTQ

I'd like to go over with you on that, one by one if you do not mind.

K. Jsyk i don't agree with fully including partnered LGBTQ people in the church, although we should have missional relationships with them. I think LGBTQ peeps should be able to live chastely in the church and be one with God.

They can live chaste lives, but if they entertain any desire for that is outside of scripture then they re not truly repentant (Psalm 66:18). But if they truly repentant, they would not be LGBTQ anymore.

i mean there's proof it's not a choice

You are correct, they cannot help what they feel, thus it's not their choice. However, neither can we... when we look at the opposite sex with lust in our hearts.

We are all born in sin in Galatians 8:21 & Romans 5:12-16, thus we cannot help but to desire things that are sinful. But that does not mean we can excuse ourselves because we can't help but to.

So you're saying it's just as much of a sin forr any kind of gay sex as it is for hetero sexual adultery?

"I would agree with you there, however I think we need to show a lot more love to LGBTQ people than they have gotten in the past from the church."

I completely agree with you. I don't know if you know this, but I'm there at their stream to help them against haters and trolls. I am there to ensure good relations between our communities. You are welcome to join me there.

I'll do that.

There are Classical Calvinists and then there are Liberal Calvinists. Some of these Calvinists don't even know what they believe in but believe that they are because they grew up in it.

It is the same with any other Christian who thinks like that. Some don't even believe in the importance of the phyiscal resurrection of Christ, and that Occult practices are OK.

The fact that you believe, though not totally, that the LGBTQ are not a sin is an indicator.

"The fact that you believe, though not totally, that the LGBTQ are not a sin is an indicator." I don't. I believe that gay sex is a sin. When I posted the original link, I was only trying to present the other viewpoint. I probably didn't communicate that well enough.

That is correct.

I would agree with you there, however I think we need to show a lot more love to LGBTQ people than they have gotten in the past from the church.

You kidding buddy? He said, "live chastely". To be homosexually attracted is not sin, but to have gay sex is a sin.

What did the comment say? First time a deleted comment hit one of my posts

Please see an amended post below

Here you go: imgflip.com/m/LGBTQ

There is an image there that is extremely disturbing because it is utterly Satanic (a white sheep or goat with an upside down star on its forehead), but of course, that is not looked upon with positivity by the majority of the members there.

I've seen that stream. Also, yeah the person who posted the Satanic image also moderates lots of streams that sexualize women, so I think we might be able to tell their moral standards...

Yes... some. One of the most level headed person there is Reaper_The_God_Of_Games; he disagrees with that meme.

hold on there's a what

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I've forgotten that I've spoken to you just last night. I'm sorry about that. I have to go, but I'll talk to you later.

heh, it's fine. Sure won't forget you anytime!

Not everyone there believes in that.

Ew

You just linked the stream not the image.

Essentially, the message of this meme is virtually correct; I would go much further than that. While they can indeed visit, they cannot be members of the church if they do not repent of their sins and give their lives to Christ alone.

With that said, I wonder if by the use of the template above, are you fulfilling or violating Colossians 4:6?

An unregenerate sinner, by his or her nature, cannot obey God (Romans 8:6-7) anymore than can a sinner who doesn't know Christ (John 10:27-30). Both the former and the latter can obey the 10 commandments, after all, unbelieving Jews does so all the time and yet none of them are going to heaven (Romans 10:1-4).

But if they resolve to live a life of repentance, and give their lives to Christ, then they are saved.

And when they are saved, they are changed as they receive a new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17) the fruits of the believer will manifest itself in their lives. If they do not, but pretend to be Christians, then eventually they will eventually leave (1 John 2:19). Their hidden, unrepentant life will eventually be exposed.

It isn't desires it is how their bodies are wired. Also, can you give evidence that God exists? If you can't keep your opinions to yourself unless asked.

Okay so you clearly don't understand the message, bud. Let UniformVictor tell you as he probably will, he'll do it better than me.
Also, did you miss the part where I said that LGBTQ people are loved and accepted?

This stream says no LGBTQ+ memes

This doesn't necessarily count. It's mostly to trigger a theological debate, as it has over and over. If I say the Church accepts LGBTQ people in the LGBTQ stream, I get insulted and called homophobic for making the opposite of a homophobic statement. And to answer the 4:6 question from Victor, I only chose Trollbait for that reason. If I say anything like that, there's a legion of haters slurring me for saying they shouldn't have gay sex in the eyes of God. This particular meme, rather than being an "i'm gay and proud" meme, this is like the "are you guys homophobes?" memes. IT's critiquing an issue in the LGBTQ+ stream with a theological basis.

Hi ClaraPixarFan55, please pardon the person who have made the meme above. I believe he means well, but chose a template that doesn't appear to look very kind or loving. I've already question him on that already, quoting Colossians 4:6.

As for all of us, I beg you to read our dialogue. zac2211 and I were in discussion and to me he appeared to be theologically unorthodox with his views with regard to the LGBTQ+. I on the other hand was very firm in that regard, but both of us have had the same conclusion that we need to give the LGBTQ+ extra love for all that they have been through.

You’re always so polite! I can’t stand these types of people

Hi Lucidum_Hydra; not always I'm afraid.

But out of curiousity, who are the people you're talking about?

People who don’t listen to reason and facts.

Yes, I know your meaning. The same often have cognitive dissonance.

From the Christian perspective, there are many reasons for their refusal to believe (valid or invalid), but ultimately it is due to the fact that men an innate hatred of God because by their nature sinful as He is righteous (Romans 1:18-23 & John 3:19-21). Their nature and love for sin (1 John 2:16) would often blind them to the truth (1 Corinthians 2:14).

From the other side, assuming that Christians are wrong, they are guilty of it as well. Science have long dispelled the miraculous explanations as research observation, experimentation, etc, would often explain the miraculous to be natural phenomena. And if one thinks rationally, there is no way God created the world in seven six days, or that Jonah survived being in the belly of a whale.

In any other respect (under the same assumption), i.e., Gay marriage, Christians rather keep their traditions than listening to their heart, and use common sense.

ok im not unorthodox. let me try to explain my views here. gay sex is a sin. to be homosexually attracted is not a sin. to be in any sort of same sex relationship is a sin. people who struggle with same sex attraction should be accepted in the church if they live chastely and devote their life to god. also, sorry if it seems like im intruding into your and claras conversation, i just want to make sure my beliefs are understood.

Exactly, and I’m proud to obey God.

I'm proud to obey myself

If we all lived that way, society would be in anarchy

being gay is ok

Having tendencies is okay, but a gay relationship is sinful

how is a gay relationship sinful

Love is love is another excuse to glorify sin. It’s clear you won’t turn.

Love is love. You can't change love.

Again, see my earlier comment

Your earlier comment is false

Sin is sin. You can’t change sin.

The Bible says so!

No it doesn’t

Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Timothy 1:10
For the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

I was told that it is not really against Christianity

The Bible is wrong then. Love is love. Love comes in all different types. The Bible is never an excuse.

The Bible is never wrong.

Who told you that?

Someone in my family

They’re wrong then

No