We'll stop holding Marxism over atheists if the anti-religious stop holding the Crusades over Christians, 9/11 over Muslims...

But Marxism is founded on the precepts of atheism, very clear about the belief there is no god but government.

And that lack of precept to atheism is an open door for anything, including oppression, ruthlessness and tyranny.

Yes in the name of atheism too, or haven't you heard of groups like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

I think I've sent you this link on other posts.

Not necessarily. The same questions remain and are answered, what is the meaning of life? What is good and what is evil? What is accountability and to whom? The list goes on in parallel with every other religion. The concept of god is replaced with self or some other diety- wealth, certain emotions, science, heroes, leaders.
My dad was an atheist and made me carry a copy of Ingersol's Creed in my wallet as he had done for years. "Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now. The place to be happy is here. The way to be happy is to make others so."
Atheism is much more than the single tenet you suggest.

The Crusades happened mostly because a Muslim empire broke a peace treaty with a Christian empire and started a war with them - the Byzantine-Seljuk wars, and Muslims oppressed Christians in the Holy Land.

There's a difference between doing terrible things DESPITE the teachings of your religion (much of the Crusades) and doing terrible things BECAUSE of the teachings of your religion (9/11).

Marxism did happen because of atheism, the lack of moral safeguards in atheism is what led Marx and Engels to come up with their ideology... while the claim of utopia being atheistic AND that lack of safeguards is why Marxist regimes often tried to violently purge religion.

"Marxism didn't happen BECAUSE of atheism." False. If it weren't for atheism, Marxism would not have existed.
Quote from Vladimir Lenin,
"Atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism"
Xi Jinping, president of China, stated that members of the Communist party must be (exact words following) "unyielding Marxist atheists".
After reading Marx's writings, Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili became an atheist.
Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Castro, Marx himself, and Engels are all referred to as atheists in their Wikipedia articles. Lenin, Stalin, Marx, and Engels in particular are called Russian (for the former two) and German (for the latter two) atheism activists.
Quote from Got Questions Ministries (which explicitly condemns lying here https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-lying-sin.html ) "In fact, communism is by definition an atheistic ideology."

No it isn't

atheism is literally just not believing in god

How were Christians responsible for the Holocaust? And do you also hold the Arab slave trade over Muslims?

Then how about we keep holding Marxism and other things such as the French Revolution and the Cristero War over atheists... but not all. Why should Christians today be blamed for the actions of long-dead Christians?

hitler killed jews in the name of the christian god. The French Revolution brought down a tyrannical regime in the midst of a massive crisis. The critters war was started by christians who were anti separation of church and state. I'm not passing out blame I'm merely acknowledging the fact that many MANY people are killed and have been killed in the name of the christian god.

Hebrew. Hitler killed the jews over the evolutionary belief that some races were superior to others. That's not a Christian belief.

well I'll be. Fact checked that and you're right. Hitler was not religious himself but many of his supporters and many of his close nazi friends were. Why did you just write Hebrew at the beginning? are you referring to me as Hebrew?

The French Revolution brought down a tyrannical regime in the midst of a crisis... but proved to be just as bad which is why the French welcomed Napoleon with open arms.

Just because terrible things are done in the name of the Christian God doesn't mean it's God's or Christianity's fault, especially as those things go against their teachings. Is it atheism's faults when people do terrible things in the name of atheism? Like Stalin's purges or the Sutherland Springs Church shooting?

The Cristero War wasn't "Christians who were anti separation church and state", but while I don't agree with the violent part, it began as a rebellion against a discrimatory law with the end goal of removing the Catholic Church from Mexico (clergymen wouldn't even be able to inherit property from persons other than close blood relatives). Plus while a group of Catholics did arm themselves and hole up in their church in opposition to this law, the government responded to this group of extremists with a purge of people not involved in that siege. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War#Escalation_of_violence

I honestly don't know much about the critters war. I'm not blaming christianity I'm blaming the people as well as taking note of the fact that they used religion as an excuse. The christians who ran the transatlantic slave trade used the Bible as an excuse because the Bible is pro slavery. Homophobes use the Bible as an excuse because there are homophobic passages. Religious people aren't all to blame but there are bad and outdated passages in every text and people of every religion have committed atrocities in the name of their god or to destroy belief in another.

Well I just gave you a bit of information about the Cristero War. By the way, why do you keep calling it the critters war?

Plus, you didn't answer my question about whether Arab slave trade; why do so many critics of religion single out Christianity?

While you're right about one thing - people of every religion have done atrocities in the name of it - the same can be said of non-religious people committing atrocities to advance their non-religious stance (look up 'state atheism' and while there's many shootings at various places of worship one that comes to mind is the Sutherland Springs Church Shooting).

I wouldn't call the Bible slavery; the Bible's stance on slavery is that it's optional, not mandatory.

Oh shit autocorrect my bad. I singled out christianity because I assumed that you would have more arguments for it. Many other atheists do the same not because of a higher death toll but being the controlling religion for a lot of western history. I never said that other religions were innocent. My main point was pretty much the same as yours: throughout history, members of every religious group have committed atrocities in the name of their god or lack of god. I never claimed that atheists are historically innocent. When I said religious groups I meant atheists too because atheism is a religious belief. These atrocities were carried out by extremists. I am not calling you an extremist nor am I calling all religious people extremists. Even if the Bible says slavery is optional that is still a pro slavery stance.

Thanks for clarifying the "critters" misunderstanding. I have more arguments and things I could say, I'm keeping it relevant to the topics raised.

Thanks for giving me an answer on the question of why Christianity keeps getting singled out; are there other reasons besides Christianity being dominant for most of Western history? Especially during a time when the majority of religious extremism is done in the name of a different religion.

Not sure I'd say atheism's a religion, but yes people have done atrocities in the name of promoting it. I didn't think you were calling me an extremist, so all good there.

While I think I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I'd call allowing the option of slavery a pro slavery stance; sounds like a loaded phrase.

This is a good discussion. I thought this would be another case of "anti-religious atheist singling out Christianity for ridicule", but here we are in an intelligent discussion :)

Calling BS on a slavery centered Bible. You obviously never read it. Parts describe the actions of awomankind, other parts lay out God's view. Don't confuse the two. God ordered anyone who was a slave (generally indentured servitude) be released every 7 years, regardless of how long they had been a slave in that 7 year period, every 50th year was to be a Jubilee where debt was cancelled, property returned and slaves freed. There are also clear instructions on what must not be done to slaves that were a product of war and admonitions about selling your children into slavery.
As for homophobia, God said that the behavior was destructive and participants would receive a mark in their body. Ever ask yourself why gay men are technically the only ones who get Aids? I have known men who died of Aids/HIV and there are very distinct marks in the body from the disease. Homophobic? Or caring enough to pass on the warning?
Read the Bible and study it carefully before you condemn it. There are warnings about that too.

Slavery for seven years is still slavery. The Bible also allows men to sell their daughters into sex slavery, according to the slavery laws of Exodus 21. Not only that but it says that daughters may only be sold as sex slaves.

Leviticus 20:13 if a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

It is not about god marking gay men it is about the murder of gay men. Also straight men can get and die of HIV/AIDS. The marks you are referring to do appear on people with HIV/AIDS but they have not been marked by "god." I have studied the Bible and I know that there are positive messages, but the Bible is very extreme. You can be put to death for anything. People shouldn't die just because some lady cheated on her husband and claimed her bastard child was the son of god when he was really just the son of Clyde, the homeless man by the marketplace.

Daughters sold as sex slaves? Please tell me what book/s, chapter/s and verse/s says that?

While I agree that homosexuality is sinful I do agree as far as I don't think HIV/AIDs is that mark, especially since not all gay men get it and then there's woman-on-woman.

Actually it's not just sex slavery. I was wrong about that. It was housework childcare and sex slavery. It is in exodus 21:7-8. Well women can get HIV/AIDS too. It's not a disease exclusive to gay men even though they have a higher chance of contracting it.

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her." Exodus 21:7-8

You didn't mention the literal escape clause in verse 8, or that verse 7 doesn't specify sex as a required chore; more on that here https://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/21-7.htm Your claim looks like a strawman.

On another subject, I was agreeing with you about HIV/AIDS.

Oh I confused you with the other guy in terns if AIDS. Sex slavery is not directly written in there but many men throughout history who have followed the Bible slavery laws treat their female slaves as sex slaves in addition to their housework in childcare. So yeah it kind of is a straw man but it has a historical basis.

Blab on. You never read the Bible, you have no grasp of history, you repeat talking points that have been refuted for decades. I would like to correct Mitchell below, it is not that you may regret mocking Christ- you will regret it. Every knee will bow and every knee will confess that Christ is Lord, that includes you. Where you go after that confession is your choice, I would recommend you choose life. Cling to the miracles of evolution, then ask yourself how trillions upon trillions of atoms can accidentally come together to accidentally produce life that accidentally replicates itself. Then really fry your brain and ask how atoms were created.
Chose life. Talk to an earnest Christian about the truth.

everything you said is wrong

Okay Dummy, where did that energy in one tiny point come from?

It was just there. We don't really know. But just the fact that we don't know everything about its origin doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I was setting up the evidence point by point to prove you are ignorant. Just keep posting, that's all the proof I need. So how did the Big Bang happen, first there was nothing, then it EXPLODED!!!!!! Think about it, you have all year.

We don't know how the Big Bang happened exactly there is just evidence for it now. There is no evidence for creation whatsoever

Prove Jacobins didn't guillotine 40,000 people in one month.

I meant in the last comment

Okay Dummy. Whatever.

If god created the universe where did god come from. Give me one real piece of evidence for creation.

No evidence or creation. We are here, that's evidence. Alas the only thing we are allowed to believe is the guess about a Big Kablooie. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Hmmmm that sounds more plausible than nothing exploding. In the original Hebrew the word created is " created out of nothing." There is another word used for created out of something.

The fact that we are here is not evidence of god. The fact that someone died doesn't mean I killed them. Read about the Big Bang theory because it is not about something coming from nothing. It's about all of the energy in the cosmos being contained in one tiny point. That point could not contain that much energy. It did not just blow up and create the universe, it expanded to be the size that it is today. It is still expanding.

I've tried Dummy. Try reading the Bible and actually study it. It's really pretty clear. Understand the use of symbols (word change meanings over time- when I was a kid gay meant happy). Figure out what is the doctrine of men and what is the truth of God. Understand the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, secular history confirms much of it, current archeology confirms more. Don't confuse the practices of men with the word of God, like you have regarding slavery. If you honestly wan to understand it, you can, then make your own decision, not one some atheist formed for you.

I made my own decision about religion. I notice how presented zero evidence of creation.

I think you are confused on every thing you say. You can make the Bible "say" anything you want it to say by lifting 1 verse out of context.
And straight guys only get Aids if they're not really straight guys. That is a medical fact.
As for mocking Christ with your son of Clyde comments, Clyde's child didn't have 119 specific prophecies mentioned 300 times throughout the OT, locked in by events recorded in secular history. Every prophecy fulfilled.
Christianity is the only religion that has predicted 1 world government, a cashless world economy, that Israel would be back in her land after 1900 years and a whole bunch of prophecy that has been specific and spot on to current events. Try the Turkey, Russia and Iran alliance that recently fell in place, the nations in the very recent peace accords with Israel are specifically named, and just watch as Damascus is destroyed. As these things accelerate, you may regret mocking Christ. Just saying.

While I agree with most of what you said and am a fellow Christian, where did you hear that bit about AIDS? I haven't heard of that before.

I have 2 friends who lost sons to Aids, so I got info from them and did a lot of research on my own. Fauci was involved in that virus too. In the 90s they tried to tell us HIV was mutating so fast that soon it would be airborne and everyone would get it. Of course never happened. They told us thousands were dying from it to spur medical research. Again, none of Fauci's data was backed up and that myth fizzled. When GWB introduced his African Aids initiative, African Aids was limited to specific regions and specific sex practices and worldwide it was acknowledged as a gay male problem with occassional communication by reusing needles in drug use or bisexual men. Those 2 methods are fairly rare.

That doesn't mean AIDS is a mark of punishment for homosexual men, though yes homosexual men are more likely to contract HIV/AIDS. Plus countries of Africa for the most part take a dim view of homosexuality, especially in men.

Ok, doesn't leave a mark on gay men, the Bible doesn't say what it says about the subject, and the African cultures most impacted by Aids don't have the notion that if a woman is aroused and secretes certain fluids with lubricating properties when with her husband that it means she's a w**re. Dry is so much better I guess for spreading Aids. I tried to avoid the details, but I know so very little about anything that I should just accept ignorance of facts as absolute truth.

My heart goes out to your two friends who lost sons to AIDS. It's good to learn things, and good on you for being strong enough to admit where you're ignorant; Jesus wants us to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Knowledge isn't the be-all and end all, but it's a good thing to have.

""I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16

Thanks for the insult. You clearly know everything there is to know about ignorance.

What insult?

What insult? That I'm strong enough to admit I'm ignorant. I bow to your superior intellect.

I was saying I wasn't trying to insult you.

He is actually wrong about that. Gay men are more likely to contract HIV/AIDS anyone who is sexually active is technically at risk.

I'm just wondering where he got his view from.

I may regret mocking christ lol.

You funny. HIV/AIDS is an STD it can be caught from any kind of sex. Gay guys do get HIV/AIDS at a disproportionate rate but truly straight men can catch it too. If you think a virgin can get magically get pregnant you do not get to have a say on health related to sexuality.

I don't know what to say about the miracles except coincidence. Israel was established just after a war. They most likely returned to the original place of Israel because it is the original place of Israel. The 2000 years part was most likely a random number that just so happened to come true. Damascus is in Syria which is and was in the Bible, in the middle of a war zone. The city of Damascus was constantly switching empires so I bet it was predicted to fall long ago.

"I honestly don't know much about the critters war" Why the heck did you even bring it up?

I didn't. SnappyCenter7 did.

"DummyThiccs0 ups, 7d, 5 replies
[false information about Adolf Hitler cut out] The critters war was started by christians who were anti separation of church and state."

Comment above that. "Then how about we keep holding Marxism and other things such as the French Revolution and the Cristero War over atheists" I did not bring it up. I just skimmed some articles to get information for an argument.

And Jacobins in the French Revolution guillotined 40,000 of their fellow revolutionaries in a single month. These people were not killed in the name of a christian god. The Bible says "I lay before you life and death, chose life." And God is very clear it is His will that none should perish, but we all have free will. Don't confuse christians with Christianity. They are not the same.

The French Revolution was still atheistic violence, and while it was ostensibly to remove tyrants, the Revolutionaries proved themselves to be at least as tyrannical as the people they overthrew... which is why the French lauded Napoleon for taking down the Revolutionaries.

I never said the French revolutionaries were Christian. Snappycenter7 said that the French Revolution was an example of atheist violence. My point was that the French Revolution brought down tyrants in the midst of a crisis.

And Jacobins in the French Revolution guillotined 40,000 of their fellow revolutionaries in a single month. These people were not killed in the name of a christian god. The Bible says "I lay before you life and death, chose life." And God is very clear it is His will that none should perish, but we all have free will. Don't confuse christians with Christianity. They are not the same.

The first sentence is false.

I know that now

Why'd u include it?

because I didn't know going into the argument