"When Fascism Comes To America..."

When socialism comes to America it will come calling patriotic Americans fascists.

We don't HAVE Soviets in America. It's rare if you can even find a collective housing association, let alone for something like agriculture.

Funny you should say that - not sure if you are aware but farming in the us has changed a lot, most small farms have been purchased by huge corporations - and since they are heavily subsidized (like the oil industry) by the federal and state governments the state literally does control the means of production - the biggest goal of any socialist government. This all started under Nixon and continued under Reagan and the Bushes. Nice system comrade!

That's not collectivisation. That's corporate monopolism.

Almost the same thing in a sense, but in reverse, where major owners of capital take control of goverment and has it fund its takeover of the means of production while turning the peons into serfs.
Which IS what happened in so-called Communist countries and happens in any other system over time, oligarchs taking over and turning it into a fuedal system.

No, it's not the same thing. Corporate monopolism is pretty much the exact opposite of collectivized industry. It's pretty much the exact problem communism seeks to solve in the first place.

Exactly, thank you for explaining. Might be too technical for the kids ....

It's Orwell Syndrome, isn't it? Which is a bit unfair on Orwell cause he didn't really invent it and he was massively misunderstood, but there's a kick to taking two completely opposite things and saying they're really the same thing.

Its all fun and games until someone with orwell syndrome wins the election. Thankfully hes on the way out now, but the damage done will last for years

But in effect it is, as those holding the reigns in any goverment are always of the same class or ilk. Sure, early on Communist countries redistribute land, draft people into collective work projects, etc, but they all congeals into Animal Farm soon enough.
AKA King Kim Jung-un & Co are fat for a reason in a land were people averagee 3 inches shorter than their brethren south of the DMZ and have 6 species of parasites in their gut.

Not really. One of the problems that the Soviet Union had was precisely that the administrative offices were being filled by people who WEREN'T groomed and educated for that purpose, which is the what the Imperial Russian system did.

In it inception, yes, but in its later days?

Look whose running Russia now, they ran the USSR then.
Even the Russian Mob in NYC is former KGB, and thus of a higher skillset than other typical mobsters.

First of all, Putin wasn't one of the corporate banking elites, was he? He's part of an entirely different machine in the cog.

And second of all, YES! He came completely out of nowhere. That's kind of his thing. He left the KGB with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel - and probably kept some of his contacts, but I remember the day when Boris Yeltsin unveiled Putin as his protege. Everyone was like "...who the HELL is HE?????" I REMEMBER that discussion.

Lieutenant Colonel. Were we talking about the ruling/leadership class or not?

We were talking about the state control & support of the means of production.
Whether to be controlled by an aimed for collective of workers or one optimizing the benefits of the activity of individual capitalists together in a free market, and how all are ultimately hijacked by a certain ilk who render the state aparatus of regulation into something tailored to their needs at the expense of what it was intended to do and the public it was meant to serve.

Transitionally, for a few years - but the oligarchic class that made all the money after 1990 and had taken over within the next four years WERE different people. COMPLETELY different people. They were nobodies, demobbed soldiers trying their luck at this new fangled banking thing and discovering that there was no limit to it.

So KGB Putin and his cronies materialized out of nowhere?

He was KGB like I said then still? His cronies too? The Russian Mob in Bklyn, NY, NY, USA also?

I don't know the names of the Russian big wigs, nor of the Chinese, Indian, Greek, Pitcairnian... nor would I ever care to.

But the bottom line is that a certain type eventually takes over any system, no matter how radical, whether it be the Communism-that-never-was from the USSR to Cuba to the Ayatollahs of the Islamic Republic of Iran to those zany Free Market Capitalists rebels in the British Colonies on the other side of the pond and their ever emerging monopolies. The plebs think $15pr/hr is a right and their champion Bernie is a millionaire. Order always coalesces out of chaos, it's just basic physics........

........ and economics.

And isn’t that what’s happening now. Big Corp and big tech back the left

They back goverment officials from 'both' artificial sides of the spectrum. Deregulation during the last 4 years has been an obvious boon to them, and other than lip service from some, Democrats will do only enough to satiate demands from some in their base, and that will be very little.

Good Point, they do play both sides just like the foreign governments that use shell companies to do the same. I am not a big Corp supporter especially international ones. This compares to the illegal Immigration issue in California where for the last 40 years both Republicans and Democrats pledged to address the issue as the schools and hospitals were being overwhelmed, but secretly wanted and encouraged it for cheap labor and service workers. The Democrats appear to have reversed course and now just openly support unlimited immigration.

When the economy sours, they make some token sweeps to satisfy angry citizens. Which is hilarious because suddenly they know where to find them. But then they soon forget again.

I kinda feel sorry for them, but what's the purpose of coming here? They make more money so they can live in a slum and chance having their daughters getting pregnant at 17 and their sons joining gangs. Yup, living in squalor and fear of deportation or getting killed by a hoodrat stealing your busboy earnings for the night so he can buy another 40 sure beats living back home in a house on a farm round all your relatives and your culture.

I understand the dream of “el Norte” and many come and have better lives and send money back home to help those that stay. There has to be a limit though. We can’t absorb everybody. I think the people that are motivated enough for a change to chance the travel and exploitation are the same people that would force change in their own countries. By absorbing are we just a pressure release for what their countries could be with citizens who are motivated enough to risk life and limb. Often times the dreams are not fulfilled or unrealistic. The chicanos at my work call immigrants border bothers and they say qiereas Norte ahora chingale.

Yeah, that, ye olde brain drain.

The myth that it's these starving oppressed victims coming here is contradicted by the fact that they had the means (which includes money) and motivation to leave. Greed is the main inspiration, and those left behind are the truly poor, the ones stuck, the ones who won't budge because they might be shot before they leave town.

Saw on the news today about the first DACA kid to get a Rhodes Scholarship. His family fled violence in Columbia. Ok, but the US is the only place they could get to that's safe?
I do feel most sorry for a kid raised here, to go back would be to a foreign country.
But if I had to go, it'd be to Canada because it's next door and the most like us. Surely on the trek here they must have noticed that Costa Rica is friggin awesome, and they speak the same language.

Ever see that movie, "El Norte"? It's about all this, and has a funny bit about "chingar"

Uh that term does not exist

Which term? All the words in my comments exist. You're on the Internet, use an online dictionary.

Yeah, but you're not Russian, are you?

He's not making much sense tho, even with that solitary comma tossed in.

Question is if it was placed by intention or tossed in like it was a dartboard.

A few months ago it somehow left a gap for two lines in a comment I made. Don't know how, as I only intended a space for one but inadvertantly managed two.

heh heh

not to mention this is an international forum. regardless, the original argument is lost in the haze

En Ingles?
Oh, and as we had been discussing before you interjected with your confusion, proper punctuation is key, as is spelling, k?

?

u need reminder ok comunism go