The bible hasn't been completely proven either.

well there is a lot of proof

same with darwin's theory

There's still nothing going against it except for pseudoscientific "evidence" that was rigged to give the desired results by the pseudoscientists.

you do realize that darwin said that what he said was false and Christianity was true before he died, right?

There's no evidence he ever actually said anything like that.
https://creation.com/arguments-we-think-creationists-should-not-use

I just heard it somewhere, which now I realize they probably didn't know what they were talking about, lol

And you just proved how unthinking you are.

40 authors is a good estimate. Very few of the books were written anonymously.

So... you don't actually have an argument? Ok; you often don't. But I do: the Bible had to have been written by one of three: righteous men, wicked men, or God. If it was written by righteous men, they would again and again be lying (which they condemn) by saying, "Thus says the Lord." If it were wicked men, they would be writing their own condemnation. But if it was God, then everything lines up.

Everything in the Bible is, from a human standpoint, either true or unconfirmed. There is no real evidence against it. May I introduce you to a classic example of where the Bible was proved right and popular belief proved wrong: for years, archeologists said that the Bible was wrong because they could find no evidence for the Hittites (a people group that the Bible mentions multiple times). But, in the late 80's, someone found clay tablets that had been written on in an ancient city called Boghaz-koy. A German scholar who specialized in decoding ancient writing went to Boghaz-koy to see what he could discover. While he was there, he uncovered 5 temples, a citadel, and a bunch of statues. And when he decoded the writing, he discovered he'd stumbled upon Hittite writing, and that Boghaz-koy was the capital of the Hittite nation! So everyone who said the Bible was wrong because of the lack of evidence for the Hittites discovered that they were in the wrong but the Bible was in the right, unsurprisingly.

Scientific errors? Oh, you just mean the miracles of the Almighty.

Again, the Bible has no confirmed errors. Point out one and it'll probably be one that's been long disproved.

Dang, you just showed how silly you really are. The whole reason Darwin wrote Origins of Species was because he didn't like the idea of there being an Almighty God that he had to devote all he had and was to. So he tried to explain away how everything could have gotten to the way it was without there being a Creator. True, he only addressed biology, but my point still remains: he was trying to explain how things could have gotten to where they are without a Creator.

The discovery of the Hittites, and therefore the confirmation of the Bible, was actually around a century prior.

Ah, ok. Good to know!

(I'll address the last two simultaneously) At this point, I wasn't even talking about the book. I was talking about the theory that the book defends. It's shattered. Completely. By one simple fact (there are many others too, but that's aside the point): genetic mutations cannot produce new genetic information. It can rearrange and remove it, but it can't add it. Therefore, evolution (which requires that mutations produce new information) is broken beyond repair.

And the Bible doesn't need updating. You see, it covers four areas, namely: history, ethical living, poetry, and prophecy. History doesn't need to be updated because it's already happened. Ethics stay the same from age to age. Poetry doesn't need to be updated, except maybe to keep it in the modern idiom. Prophecy doesn't need to be updated because it hasn't happened yet.

I am christan and I belive in evolution

But then you have to deal with suffering and death existing for millions of years before the fall.

note that gods creation order of animals is the same as which main animal groups came first

So? God created plants before the cosmos. Are you saying that evolution says that? Because it pretty clearly does not.

just like the christans who killed millions of other people

You mean the crusaders and the pre-Counter-Reformation Roman Catholic Church? Those were people who were following their own selfish ambition, but pretending to follow Christ.

just like you

Really? I've devoted my entire life to serving Christ and developing an intimate relationship with Him. You, on the other hand, are attacking us because we stand against what you know to be sinful but still want to do. So you are the one acting out of selfish ambition.

*were pretending

what if god is fake

In case you didn't notice, there is plenty of evidence for the existence of God. For example, the fine tuning of the laws that govern our universe. Or the incredible diversity among living things, especially since new genes cannot form via mutations. Or the lives that have been directly touched by the hand of God working in them. So there can be no rational reason to deny the existence of the Almighty God.

New genes can form the entire point of mutation is changing genes. Also lots of animals have similar bones. And add on all the things that can kill babies before they are born and god is at best negligent

No, the point of mutation is to change existing genes.

When songs share similar patterns, that's often because they come from the same intelligent mind.

Sometimes, God does things that we can't figure out the reason for. Are you in a position of authority to decide who lives and who dies? Can you see how each action will play out, to all ends? No? Neither do I. We have no place as humans to decide what is best for the times ahead of us.

Excellent Mem, Aelfwine. :)

But, is there .... INTERNAL CONTRADICTIONS?

Not that I'm aware of. I know that there are some verses that non-believers claim to be such, but it's unfounded.

But are there internal contradictions in the evolution book?

I haven't read Origin of Species yet, so I wouldn't really know. I wouldn't be surprised if there were, though.

the people who belive that evolution is untrue. you guys are the psudeoscintests not us

Until you scrutinize the evidence.

🤨 What the crab am I looking at

All you seem capable of doing is hurl meaningless insults. That makes you the idiot.

just stop insulting the lgbtq community then i'll stop

I'm not insulting them. I'm saying that the way they live is sinful, because God has declared that in His Word.

You seriously just insulted them 🤨

Nope. I insulted the way they live. There is a distinct difference between the sinner and the sin.

So what exactly is wrong with the wya the love 🤨

It is sinful, and a perversion of what God created romance to be.

Can you control who you have a crush on?

You're twisting my words and dodging my point. The laws of nature are immutable, and cannot be violated by any natural process.
Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore, the big bang is moot.
New genes cannot be created. They can be modified or removed, but they cannot pop out of nowhere. Therefore, Darwinian evolution is moot.
It has been proven impossible for life to spontaneously generate. Therefore, the idea that life arose from some primordial chemical soup is moot.

Therefore, naturalism is utterly and irreparably flawed. Intelligent Design has to be the answer. Only the One who set the laws in place can break them.

Your logic makes no sense. Of course new genes can develop form mutations. The idea of the Big Bang is that all matter was compacted into a very small ball and then when it exploded it created the ever expanding universe. This might not be the best explanation but I’m no scientist

Can humans control their behavior, even if they desire otherwise?

Answers the question. Can you control who you have a crush on?

I did. If you can control your actions, that's what counts.

So people can’t be with who they love because a book tells them it’s wrong? Give me a break. This bible of yours is used as an excuse to drive people to become suicidal

Mhm. Seems to me that you're trying to cover your mistake by bluffing. You pretty clearly said that I said what you thought you said, not that you thought I said what you thought I said.

You can tell your losing the argument so you make a long string of words to try and confuse me

You certain about that? Or are you just not listening to what you don't want to hear?

I am certain. Your not going to convince me that my friend is a sinner because she is one of the nicest people I know

Has it been empirically proven that new genes are formed by mutations? I've done research on it, and, really, I've found nothing. All the "proof" I've found is either something completely theoretical, or isn't actually the addition of a new gene to a genome.

Well, where did that ball of matter and energy come from, then? You're dodging the question.

I don’t know where the ball of matter came from. But I do not think it is a higher power. That is to convenient for me to believe.

Let’s say that only alterations can happen in a mutation. What happens when you alter something a million times? You get a new thing, even if the alterations are small.

I am sorry that they commited suicide (if that's what they did). I can't prove it you, especially if you refuse to believe me, but I am. The loss of human life is terrible, no matter what form it takes.

I would never kill someone for their beliefs, nor would I condone it. I would, however, do my best to bring them to Christ.

I would rather die than deny my faith, yes. But I wouldn't kill someone for disagreeing with me, like I said.

You are so against people just accepting themselves that you would rather them commit suicide

You are twisting words and using faulty deductive reasoning to try and convince me that what I believe is wrong.

Yes, they are sinners, but they are capable of repentance. However, if they want to remain in rebellion against God, then they have only two other options: continuing in their sinful ways, which will bring more berating; or suicide, which removes the other two options permanently.

Only the hypocrites tell them they alone don't deserve to live. No human deserves to live, because we have all fallen short of the Glory of God. But God offers grace and salvation to those who come to Him in true, humble repentance.

I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your friend. However, if they didn't want to come back to God, then they only had the other two options that I mentioned above. May I add that I don't want to see homosexuals die. I want to see them come to Christ so they can share a joyful eternity with Him.

Technically, what they said about transgenderism is correct. If you have two X chromosomes, you are female. If you bear an X and a Y, you're male. Doesn't get simpler than that.

Those beliefs are twisted in your eyes only because it doesn't support the liberal cause for lawlessness.

You don’t sound very sorry about my friend. You want people to suffer for your beliefs. You would rather somebody die then go against them.

Not because a book says it's wrong. Because GOD says it's wrong. And he is the ultimate authority on good and evil.

You give me a break. Homosexuals don't commit suicide because the Bible says their lifestyle is immoral. The ones that do commit suicide do so because they regret the way they live.

They commit suicide because everyone around them tells them they are a sinner and they are wrong. They tell them they don’t deserve to live. I had a friend, HE was depressed because his family wouldn’t accept him. He felt terrible. Mid year he disappeared. I suspect he might have committed suicide. I know he was thinking about it. He always wore long sleeves. That’s what happens when your entire family tells you you are a sin, that your a mistake, that because you have girl parts you cannot be a boy. It’s terrible and twisted and you support that.

Oh, and what arguments that I made don't make sense? Point them out and I'll explain my lines of reason behind them.

And you can tell your losing the argument when you say that I'm doing things I'm not trying to do. That was the most simplistic way I could put it.

*you're

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Well, given that the laws of nature are immutable and cannot be violated, that means that something (or Someone) greater than must have put them in place. It only seems too convenient to you because as a naturalist, you want everything to be explained in a naturalistic way, with no room for the divine.

Agreed, somewhat. But, you wouldn't get NEARLY the amount diversity among living creatures that exists in our world. You have lions, leopards, cheetahs, house cats, tigers, jaguars, and dozens of other cat species, but they are all still cats. Same rule applies to any group of living creatures. Any new species formed are limited by the gene pool available to their ancestors. So, a microbe cannot become a man. And so, evolution is moot.

-3- I feel like I am taking to a brick wall. Unbreakable laws of physics don’t equal god. For your other paragraph there is a reason evolution Took so long -3-

I'm not sure you're entirely listening: homosexuality and transgenderism are both stated as violations of God's law (Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:18-32, 1 Timothy 1:9-10; Genesis 1:27, Genesis 5:2, Mark 10:6). As such, they have consequences, whether in this life or in eternity.

And also, sexual sin is sinning against your own body (1 Corinthians 6:18-20). So, really you're harming yourself in sinning sexually.

Of course, this all boils down to whether God exists or not. But, I think I've already provided sufficient evidence for that.

🤨 But why would the magic man in the sky say the homosexuality is illegal. It makes no sense. Also are you seriously using god existing a taking point against an atheist. 🤦‍♀️You do realize I don’t believe in god

And you can also tell you're losing the argument when you have to derail the conversation in order to score a point.

Maybe I am just tired of arguing with people who don’t listen anyway

Did I say that? No, I said that I would rather that people repent and come to Christ than die in punishment, which is quite to the contrary of what you claim I said.

I only stated what it sounded as if you said

Did God cause those people to abuse the power He gave them? No. As long as humans continue to sin, there will be suffering, for two reasons: 1. Sin, as it is rebellion against God, must be punished by Him, just as an earthly king must punish those who rebel against him, and 2. Humans, being sinful, will cause harm to themselves and others, including those who don't deserve it.

God gives people a choice whether or not to act in accordance with His will. And, unfortunately, many people choose to reject Him. What makes it even worse is that many people claim that their own selfish ambition is really God's will. And that is the worst way you could take God's name in vain.

That is a violation of the law of the conservation of matter and energy. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So, the only logical conclusion is that a God who is greater than matter and energy, and the laws that govern them, could have made the universe.

New genes cannot be introduced into a genome by mutations. Therefore, Darwinian evolution, which requires that new genes be produced naturalisticaly, doesn't work.

Here's something: the more complex something is, the more likely it's not going to work. Especially if parts of it cannot work.

And also, I can completely comprehend the theory of evolution. Including everything wrong with it. I can also completely comprehend the theory of creation, and see far fewer problems with it. And I'm not talking about how they relate to my own worldview. I'm talking about if we look at them through scientific (not indoctrinated!) and logical eyes, we can see that having a Supreme God who created matter, energy, the laws of nature, and life fits with empirical science much better than the idea that naturalistic events that completely violated the laws that govern our universe happened in a surprisingly (to say the least) beneficial-to-life way does.

If you need me to rephrase that last bit, just tell me.

How in the world does two men kissing hurt anyone?! Or two girls kissing?! Or a girl getting surgery to be a boy?! Why is the so sinful?! It doesn’t hurt anyone but your beliefs!! Also knew genes can be created through genetic mutations I’m not sure where you learned otherwise 🤨

Glad you know how I feel.

I’m sure we both of tired of arguing with somebody who won’t listen, considering that applies to both of us

Perhaps. But at the same time, there's no way to naturalistically explain how the immutable laws of nature were violated in order to:
Make matter and energy out of nothing
Have even the simplest life form (which is still fairly complex, as I said) arise in completely uncontrolled conditions (heck, scientists haven't been able to create original life in controlled circumstances!)
Have new genes be formed from nothing and be added to a creatures genome
Have extremely complicated humans form that can rationalize, unlike animals.

Again, I could go on. But I'm pretty sure you get the point: trying to explain the origins story naturalistically leads to a lot of problems. Explaining it supernaturally clarifies everything.

Which is why I don’t think it’s supernatural. Because that’s to easy, we don’t understand something so we make an explanation that makes sense. It’s a whole lot harder to admit that we don’t know

I'm saying the same things over and over again because you keep on doing the same. In reality, you keep on saying things I've already countered.

But, again, where did that ball of matter come from? You still haven't answered that.

It's simple. Scientists have been preforming experiments dealing with this topic for at least a decade, and not once have they had any record of genes being added to a genome. You could, yes, argue that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but they should have had such results by now, if it's scientifically possible.

I don’t know where the hall of matter came from. Nobody does. I could also ask you where god came from, you would say he was always there. So maybe the ball of matter was always there. I am also not inclined to believe things without proof. Where is your proof that genes cannot be added to a genome? Sorry but your arguments are weak and repetitive. Your current progress to converting me to Christianity is -75%

Sin has nothing to do with personality. It has to do with being in rebellion against God.

I don’t really believe in god and yet my life is pretty great, if he exists then he clearly doesn’t care much about us atheist. Considering how there is no proof he exists I don’t mind rebelling against him

I'm beginning to have déjà vu. Almost as if I'm having to explain everything to you again.

If the universe were to come from nowhere, that would be a violation of the Law of Matter and Energy Conservation. The only way to supercede a law of nature is to go beyond the natural world. Conclusion? The supernatural.

You completely missed my point. The reason evolution can't happen is because there's only so much room for variation in the average genome. It doesn't matter how long you give it. The limitations that the available set of genes imposes won't grow any less constricting. If anything, they'll become even more so.

Nobody ever said matter came form nowhere. I said that it was in a tiny little ball al condensed and then it exploded and expanded creating the universe. As for the second statement where is the proof?

You are explaining the same thing over and over again because for me your points are invalid, have no proof, or just make so sense

Perhaps, except that I addressed just about every single point you made in this conversation. You didn't. So what's the logical conclusion on who's not listening?

I’m not listening because your points make no logical sense

God designed marriage to be between a man and a woman. Any other way, and it's a violation of that original design.

That's why I said it all boils down to whether there's a God or not. If there is no God, then there is no morality. But, if God does exist, then there are set rules for human behavior. And, again, I'm fairly certain I provided sufficient evidence for His existence.

First of all, there is no evidence he exists. Just you connecting dots to assume that. As you connect the dots one way I connect them the other way and we come to different conclusions. Your not going to convince me that god exists, because all evidence you have is circumstantial. You can’t use god as a talking point against an atheist

The law of entropy prohibits that energy could have always been available. No matter what, energy is somehow going to be used and converted to heat energy, which, in conjunction with the obvious fact that there is no infinite source of energy, mean that it had to have had a beginning. God, on the other hand, is not physical, therefore physical laws don't apply to Him. He created and can supercede those laws, but by no means is He constricted by them.

Dang it, I just told you! Whenever such experiments have been conducted, there has NEVER been a recorded instance of a new gene being added to a genome. Look it up yourself. Any article claiming to have proof that new genes can be naturalistically added to a genome is usually using a clever sleight of words to say either, "We actually haven't ever observed this happening, but it supports evolution, so it must be true!" or, "This isn't really a new gene. It's one that's been there the entire time. But, because it LOOKS like a new triat has been added, we'll portray it as such!"

Really, if you weren't saying things that I've already countered, I wouldn't be repeating what I said.

Your belief really isn't something I have control over. If you want to jeopardize your eternity, there's nothing I can do about that.

Have you considered that He's giving you grace, and opportunity to come back to Him? He does still love you, as a father still loves his prodigal child. And so He's giving you grace, and time to make a choice.

Well, He certainly isn't as physically tangible as some people would like, but there is evidence for His existence. For example, how could the universe have started by itself, without God? How could the laws of nature be set in place, and fine-tuned to be ideal for life, without an intelligent mind overseeing it all? How could even the simplest life form (which is still fairly complex) have come about, without a wise and all-knowing God constructing it with the utmost care? How could creatures as complex and intelligent as us humans take form, if there was no God to create that complexity, and put that intelligence in us? I could go on, but you get the point. God's fingerprints are all over Creation. Even if, as a spiritual being, He cannot be tangibly and empirically experimented on, His handiwork is manifest throughout the universe.

I’m pretty sure that if god is all knowing he knows I am never going to “go back to him”. I’m not even in a Christianity family I am in a Jewish family. Also even if he exist (which he doesn’t) I’m not following him because this magic man in the sky who claims he is all good has caused so much pain in suffering in his name, in the past god was used as an excuse for many many terrible things, and still is.

There once was a tiny ball full of matter that exploded. As a result billions and billions of planets where created. How hard is it to believe that on one of those planets life would form? Just a simple single cell organism. From there it slowly but steadily evolved over millions of years eventually forming humans. The reason I think this is more likely than god is because it’s difficult. An enteral being creating the universe is a lot more comforting then it happening on its own. People like to think it was god who created it because it is simpler and easier on our our minds.