Where do you draw the line?

Conservatives tend to believe all babies matter. Liberals tend to believe you can kill it anywhere up to the moment of birth.

Edit/ I just love it when a liberal shows up to comment and demonstrates exactly what I said.. nice.. well for me, not for the babies...

Conservatives tend to believe that once pregnant, women shouldn't get to choose whether or not they give birth regardless of the circumstances.
Liberals tend to believe that people should have autonomy over their own bodies.

Conservatives tend to believe that a grown adult knows that having sex (especially unprotected sex) can lead to a baby and that you don't get to kill that baby because you find it inconvenient once the inevitable happens.

Liberals tend to believe that (for example) a single celled proto-life form on mars would be considered alien life but rationalise that killing a developing child (sometimes long past the development of a heartbeat, limbs and organs) is ok because the laws of biology change to suit the preference.

Liberals also tend to believe that a baby made from two peoples genetic material, and the sum of which combines to a life that is different to both parents as a result, is somehow also a body part of the woman and thus killing a baby is not far off an equivalent to amputation (etc)

Conservatives tend to believe that pregnancies are generally the result of consensual, unprotected sex between adults.
They tend to believe that the onus is on the woman not to become pregnant and that regardless of her wishes, the stage of pregnancy, her health, the health of the foetus, her circumstances or any number of other factors, she does not have the right to control a process happening inside her own body.
Conservatives also tend to believe that people have 'souls', that these magically appear after conception and that their continued existence takes precedence over the woman's bodily autonomy.

Liberals tend to be aware that someone becoming pregnant isn't necessarily as straightforward as consensual, unprotected sex.
Liberals tend to be aware that pregnancy can result from protected sex because it isn't 100% reliable, pregnancy can be a result of rape, pregnancy can be dangerous to the fetus of a woman with certain autoimmune disorders, pregnancy can be dangerous for women with certain health conditions.
Liberals tend to believe that ultimately, pregnancy is a huge endeavour, it takes a massive toll on the body both physically and psychologically, it can can cause both physical and mental health problems, some of which are dangerous.
There are countless potential complications, some of which can be caused by being in a medical environment, rather than prevented (look up epidural complications) and that to force anyone to unnecessarily experience this horrendous toll on the body and mind is nothing short of barbaric.

Conservatives tend to believe that if a woman doesn't want to have children or has inherent risks/difficulties with her having children then she has many options at her disposal besides getting pregnant, killing it, then acting like there was nothing that could have avoided this.
Sterilisation prevents children and not having sex also prevents children. Liberals however choose to ignore this, engage in the inevitable and tend to consider themselves victims of circumstance, which is why they tend to rationalise abortion.

Liberals also tend to excuse the concepts of rape, fetal disability or medical harm to the mother as reasons why abortion is acceptable, but infact it has no real bearing on why a liberal believes in abortion and only uses these examples as an attempt to present themselves as holding some sort of ethical high ground. We know this as:

1. Liberals have no issue with all the abortions that weren't related to these issues.
2. If by magic all of those issues suddenly stopped, liberals would still be ok with abortion.

"1. Liberals have no issue with all the abortions that weren't related to these issues.
2. If by magic all of those issues suddenly stopped, liberals would still be ok with abortion."

Yes, absolutely, I didn't suggest otherwise. Both medical complications and rape are added factors, they are not the only factors.
I made it clear that the important point is that people have autonomy over their own bodies.

It's really unfortunate that unwanted pregnancies happen, but they do.
Making abortion illegal will not prevent abortion from happening.
If it's going to happen it ought to take place in a safe environment with medical supplies and qualified practitioners.

The vast majority of abortions take place in the first few weeks and involve the pregnant person taking two pills, the fetus is barely developed at this point.

Sterilisation does not always work and doctors are extremely reluctant to do it.
Not having sex? Ok, Oliver Cromwell.

Republicans tend to believe that babies have rights to life.

But the fetus is IN the woman's body, and she gets to make decisions about her body.

So if I ate bacon and eggs for breakfast and it's in my body, does that mean the bacon and eggs is part of my body?

It means that the bacon and eggs would be *in* your body.
Hah! If our political inclinations were reversed, I'd be screaming SO YOU THINK BACON AND EGGS IS A BABY, right about now.

Just like the fetus is *in* the woman's body not part of the woman's body.

Not exactly just like, the bacon and eggs are digested and the nutrition in them is absorbed by your body, conversely, the fetus is absorbing nutrients *from* a woman's body.
The calcium they absorb can actually damage the woman's bones.
The fetus is connected via the umbilical cord and relies on the woman for it's energy source, steadily growing and putting pressure on her internal organs.
The bacon and eggs however, offer up their nutritional bounty then the remains get shat out; they don't continue growing inside you, putting pressure on your bladder, distending your abdomen so you can't bend over and potentially eventually needing to be surgically removed from your body with a scalpel.
If you are finding that they do, I strongly recommend eating somewhere else in future.

Ahhh, you were surgically removed with a scalpel. Explains alot.

"Yeah, it goes both ways. That's the beauty of this stream. Better to blow off steam here than in the streets.

Honestly, I just get tired of all the anti Trump memes. While I get that he's president, does it have to be 95% memes bad Trump, bad trump supporters? lol I shat on Trump for having that war monger dirtbag Bolton in power. It's just funny that Trump is evil personified while never criticizing a single democrat. But that's politics."

Oh yeah, I don't think Trump is evil, people are just people. I personally don't think a demonstrably egotistic, self-serving businessman with his attitude to women, poc and minorities should be in any position of power though.
I also feel a bit incredulous at the blind devotion of some of his supporters.

Check out The Daily Show video of Jordan Klepper at a Trump rally, he asks people if there's anything Trump could do that would stop them voting for him and they make it clear that there isn't.

There's a lot of accusatory comments about liberals being incapable of critical thinking but that's a pretty perfect example of conservatives doing exactly that.

Yeah, but he got elected. He's 36, born in the USA. That and votes are all that matter. I think the problem is that so many say he and his supporters aren't legitimate. Obama and his supporters were legitimate. It's just the way it goes. Like a pendulum.

I've seen many clips of people reading Obama quotes but attributing them to Trump and hearing college/university students freaking out how racist and evil 'Trump' is.

Everyone knows that there are perfectly reasonable people on both sides. Liberals and Conservatives. It's the extremes that loses people.

"Yeah, but he got elected. He's 36, born in the USA. That and votes are all that matter. I think the problem is that so many say he and his supporters aren't legitimate. Obama and his supporters were legitimate. It's just the way it goes. Like a pendulum."

I have to say, he's looking pretty rough for 36... ;)

He's gonna live another 70 years. Be forewarned.

"I thought you meant you had some huge growth or disfigurement the doctors had to slice off for you to fit."

I'm not sure that doctors lopping bits off a newborn during birth sounds particularly professional, you get what you pay for I suppose...

I think home is generally a better environment to be born in, unless there are medical complications, obviously.

I was just pickin' at you.

I'd agree with that.

JRBobDobbs1 up, <1h, 1 reply
"I thought you meant you had some huge growth or disfigurement the doctors had to slice off for you to fit."

I'm not sure that doctors lopping bits off a newborn during birth sounds particularly professional, you get what you pay for I suppose...

I think home is generally a better environment to be born in, unless there are medical complications, obviously.
flagSydneyB1 up, <1h
I was just pickin' at you.

I'd agree with that.

Did we just upvote each other's comments? I expected lightning or something...

heh

Believe it or not, I actually can get along and joke with those I politically disagree with. I always upvote Octavia and Vaga. I try to take it thread by thread and try not to hold grudges. But you guys are always trolling lol

"Believe it or not, I actually can get along and joke with those I politically disagree with. I always upvote Octavia and Vaga. I try to take it thread by thread and try not to hold grudges. But you guys are always trolling lol"

Haha! Same.

I occasionally upvote conservatives, I've historically even agreed with things Timber has said but then he's ruined it by calling me a dipshit or equivalent.

Yeah, it goes both ways. That's the beauty of this stream. Better to blow off steam here than in the streets.

Honestly, I just get tired of all the anti Trump memes. While I get that he's president, does it have to be 95% memes bad Trump, bad trump supporters? lol I shat on Trump for having that war monger dirtbag Bolton in power. It's just funny that Trump is evil personified while never criticizing a single democrat. But that's politics.

"He's gonna live another 70 years. Be forewarned."

Well that's put a crimp on my day...

I suppose it's too much to hope that he'll just do it quietly somewhere that he isn't being a menace to the general population and like, the rest of the world?

Nope, perfectly normal homebirth. Wow, you're saying that the countless people born by c-section are deformative in some way? Way to insult a whole section of society and demonstrate your ignorance in one go.

Hey! I was too. I suppose we each scarred each other.

I thought you meant you had some huge growth or disfigurement the doctors had to slice off for you to fit.

Leftists are wrong about abortion and 100 other topics.
That's what happens when you abandon logic and have no moral compass whatsoever.

ALL lives matter.

Birth. Which part about that do you not get?

So is abortion OK any time right up to the moment of birth for you?

What about that don't you get?

Thanks for clearing that up, you vile piece of shit.