Change My Mind

Trump loves America and does everything he can to promote, uplift, & protect America & Americans.

Sanders HATES America and does & will continue to do everything he can to denigrate, demote, & destroy America & Americans.

That should clear things up for you.

Oh how cute. A Trumper on his knees trumpeting. That's nice.

Sander's states any chance he gets how awful, bigoted, and rigged the country is. Do you listen to him?

Doesn't matter if I do or not. I'm not sure how I feel about him.

Oh yes, foolish and silly for not buying the koolaid on the left or right.

You've proven yourself to be a fool many times already. I've already stated why prankster is on his knees. I'll keep my comments to you as short as possible because I know you're a waste of time as well. Again, doesn't matter if you support Pelosi, Biden, Trump, Reagan, Gore...... Supporting Trump doesn't make one a Trumper. Idiocy makes a person an idiot and worthy of negative names.

Sadly, you failed. On my knees??? Not hardly.
You are right about one thing...Idiocy makes a person an idiot and worthy of negative names. And you, madam, are a founding member of the Confederacy of Dunces...

Oh how cute. Another moron suffering from acute TDS. What? No "Trumptard" or "Trumpublican" in your diatribe.
Take two fist- fulls of ButtHurt cream and go see your proctologist in the morning...

It doesn't matter who's Prez, could be Pelosi, Sanders, Bush, Reagan, Trump, Clinton, Biden. When you suck the sausage strong enough to make a statement like, "(Fill in name here) loves America and does everything he can to promote, uplift, & protect America & Americans.

(Fill in name here) HATES America and does & will continue to do everything he can to denigrate, demote, & destroy America & Americans."

That's pretty pathetic.

I love it enough not to paint everyone who votes opposite me as not all the same. How about you?

This meme really hits at the heart of the problem in America. Everyone is angry and has good reason to be angry. The only real difference is what people on each side think is the cause/s. While there are people who cross the boarder illegally and that is a problem, I don't think it is the root of all that is wrong. While millions of people beneath me who don't work as hard, feed off the system and get more than they deserve, again, I don't think that is the root of the problem. That doesn't mean I can't agree with many right leaning ideologies because I do.

We've got corporate socialism/welfare running rampant in this country. People at the top buying our politicians, owning them. All of them feeding Americans a steady stream of hate filled rhetoric to separate the people in left and right camps, insuring that the people will never come together to fight the real enemy that is destroying our country.

Yet, you spend your time asking me whether or not I love my country.

No, it's a comparison that contrasts the difference between the two candidates. In fact, I boiled it down to make it so simple that even you, yes, you, should be able to grasp it.
Sadly, I was wrong.
And, you, madam, are pathetic. I have no idea whether you are pretty or not...

No, you didn't boil anything down. You stated an ignorant opinion that is obviously not true.

See? You just proved my point.

You wouldn't know what's obvious if it had "obvious" stenciled all over it.

You sure you ain't confusing the two, as you tend to?

Yep. I didn't confuse anything.
Did you come to this conversation just to lower the bar and devolve it into the usual monkey- sh!t flinging contest that your contributions tend to do?
If so, please take your circus somewhere else.

Aww, monkey poo, I didn't come to fling you anywhere. We need village idiots like yourself here.

Based on?

Angry middle class Americans who know they are being screwed by the system and wanting to vote for someone who basically wants to dismantle a political party.

Don't care what his policy's would or wouldn't do. Just stating why there are similarities for Trump and Bernie supporters.

You haven't stated any similarities at all. All you have done is denigrate any and every one who disagrees with you.
You have proven yourself to be incapable of having an honest conversation. So, you are now just subject to ridicule and scorn.

It was one of my first posts.
"Angry middle class Americans who know they are being screwed by the system and wanting to vote for someone who basically wants to dismantle a political party."

It's not my fault you can't read or refuse to see the similarities. It's not just me saying it. People have been saying this for a long time. It's likely the reason Billy made the meme in the first place!

https://www.npr.org/2016/02/08/465974199/what-do-sanders-and-trump-have-in-common-more-than-you-think

https://thebulwark.com/sanders-and-trump/

Obviously, I can read...I respond to your drivel. That paragraph was in response to jplowry and I had to dig around to find it. Problem: It is your opinion...no more, no less. It has no basis in fact.

This still all boils down to two diametrically opposed economic philosophies.
Capitalism works, especially when free from government regulation and Socialism/Communism fails every time.
Trump may not be the most polished President...but he certainly is effective and gets the job done. Just think how much he could have accomplished if you jackals on the left had given him half the chance.
I won't change your mind, you won't change mine.
You may go now...

Okay, I can get behind both are party outsiders, but Sander's supporters being "middle class", I just don't see. A majority of his supporters are from millennials and younger, with higher levels of education but lower levels of income, coupled with large debt loads.

Mmmyeah, young middle class people who know we're living in a different country than in the past. Those young people are pretty much screwed today. They are not prospering the same way as people from earlier generations did, especially those who were educated.

If they are middle class, they are prospering. But the problem remains that his supporters are not middle class. This makes sense, as Bernie's policy proposals usually appeal to lower class individuals.

"If they are middle class, they are prospering"? How do you figure? Virtually all statistical comparisons of them vs boomers at the same age, show vastly lower wealth accumulation. They are not making nearly the same income in comparison and are living in a completely different world vs post WWII America.

"Bernie's policy proposals usually appeal to lower class individuals" What? Are you just making this up because it's what you believe? Where is the proof of this? I'd like to see it.

Origimally I said "higher levels of education" but that was incorrect.

Yes, being part of the middle class is what is defined as economic success. The dream of living a middle class life is what largely separates America from the rest of the world.

As to the lower class claim, here is politico...

In poll after poll, Sanders appeals to lower-income and less-educated people; Warren beats Sanders among those with postgraduate degrees. Sanders performs better with men, Warren with women. Younger people who vote less frequently are more often in Sanders’ camp; seniors who follow politics closely generally prefer Warren.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/12/sanders-warren-voters-2020-1408548

I've searched at least 5 articles other than yours and did not see statements like that. While it makes sense to a certain extent that they would be lower educated, (his policy's aren't likely to happen even if he became president) that's not what I've found or have seen. All stated age was the primary factor of Bernie supporters.
Here's one:
“The main dividing line was age more so than ideology or any other demographic attribute,” Matt Grossmann, a political scientist with Michigan State University, said, noting that the age factor drove other demographic assumptions about economic status. “The quintessential Bernie voter was a grad student: high in educational level but low in income.”

"The dream of living a middle class life is what largely separates America from the rest of the world."
Do you not see that the American middle class is under attack and has been dwindling for 35yrs due to stagnant wages?

I get your view. Thanks for explaining it.

Here is Nate Silver's 538 blog

In New Hampshire, Sanders won by 24 percentage points over his nearest rival among those with family incomes of less than $50,000. That was about a quarter of voters in the state. A recent Quinnipiac University poll showed Sanders had a bigger lead among households that make less than $50,000 than among any other income group. And in surveys from both Ipsos and ABC News/The Washington Post, people with a household income over $100,000 were less likely to say they were supporting or considering voting for Sanders even after we controlled for age, education and race.

It's my guess that you're using the term, "middle class" to define people as middle income, as it should but I'm thinking of it as not quite the case now. I was questioning that in terms of young people today who have 4yr degree's and should be middle class but, are instead just scraping by and basically low income.

I see Bernie supporters as highly educated, lots of college debt due to 1000% increases in college costs, low income due to 35yrs of stagnant wages, unable to afford homes like past generations did.

Where did you just say anything about less educated voters?

You asked where it was, Politico cites mutliple polls for their assertion.

"Do you not see that the American middle class is under attack and has been dwindling for 35yrs due to stagnant wages?"

We are not talking about that. For arguments sake, yes the middle class has been under attack and in decline, but we are talking about who are sanders supporters and that success is defined as reaching the middle class. Let's try to stay on topic.

Politico doesn't, "cite poll after pole". They state that in poll after poll. I looked for their sources for the article which is an opinion piece with no sources.

I'll agree with most of your assessment but that one area of the article, "low education" just doesn't fit.

First, anyone backing Bernie has far left ideology. There are few far left liberals with low education. Only 37% of non-college degree individuals vote Dem overall. That small amount in no way can account for the huge support Bernie has and cannot be his main body of support.

Politico is obviously referencing the same polling data examined by Nate Silver