if it were today

My apologies, kewlew, debating on your comment section. My debate will cease.

Pro-donut people, "We've been eating the same wheat for centuries! Why would people be allergic all of a sudden?"

Pro-GMO people, "We've been selectively breeding wheat for centuries. It's no different than genetically modifying it!"

Jesus: I'm gonna do a sermon on that mount over there
Citizens: is there community transit?
Jesus:

I'm gonna share this with my friends, if you don't mind.

Thank you I don't mind at all 😎😎

Brah you guys should stop making fun of THE one and ONLY God like that.
😡

God is not being made fun of in any way. We are just speculating what might happen if Jesus came to earth in 2020. It's not irreverent either.

To just expand this point... The point behind the meme is just how we take everything for granted today and are not impressed anymore by anything and how we just seek reasons to complain, while in Jesus' time it was (at least we think it was) different in that perspective.

So not Jesus/God was ridiculed, but mortals were... Now I know that Backofhater123 won't get notified, but I placed my reply here for overview purposes...

Big brain 5000

Do you believe in God, Kittencat47?

Why yes I do, why do you ask?

I've noticed that you disclaimed to Backofhater123 that the meme is attacking Jesus. But i;ve also noticed you responded positively to JeroenBroks. He's not a Christian.

If you are a Protestant, I'd like to invite you to my stream titled Evangelicalism

imgflip.com/m/Evangelicalism

If not you'r free to visit if you'd like. :)

I did not realize at first tha t he was non-Christian but ok yes I'll join

JeroenBrok is not a bad person, he has actually become a friend of mine in ImgFlip; but like everyone unbelieving, he is blind to the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

If you scroll down, you can see our debate. You'll see his point of view as also you'll see mine. He is one of the few Atheists or Agnostics who are the nice ones. Octavia is another.

Excellent. welcome to the stream! :)

its 2020 ._.

yeah. thats the point. just read the title

it is just a joke!

no one made fun of anybody sheesh I bet you're fun to be around!

Ever wonder why almost everyone here is probably atheist

Because of zealots with overfanatism driving them away from God?

I can only speak for myself, but I do not call myself an atheist, as atheism is the believe no god or other kind of entity similar to a god exists, and I am simply not sure....
What I do believe is that if God is the entity I take him for, he wants us to have a bit of humor, and for good reasons too.

Oh, and by the way... Jesus is not God... He never declared himself as such. He always spoke of "Father God" after all. He can rather be seen as God's emissary. So the meme above did not even make fun of the "one and only God".

Well kind sir I will have you know that Jesus was part of the trinity which technically means he is also God

Hi Backofhater123, I don't know if you are a Protestant but if you are, I'd like to invite you to the Evangelical stream which I moderate.

imgflip.com/m/Evangelicalism

I noticed you believe in the Trinity, so do we! And I have an article I've written about the topic and a Creed I've post which provides the best discription of the doctrine .

Feel free to come!

Thank you

Yep

But remember big G God

*clapping

You may believe that, but I take no word from those who refute His words, as he refuted the very idea a mortal could identify themselves as such. And there we can best close this discussion as no meaningful statements can come forth from all this. Furthermore the only thing that is historically proven is that a preacher named Jesus has existed. But then again the name "Jesus" was more common in the areas he lived in that the name "John" is in English speaking countries. So I will have you know that I already did my own studies regarding this. So you will let me know nothing. You've proven yourself a fanatic on this subject, and the best way to get untruths about ANY subject is to listen to fanatics. Goodbye!

Maybe, but I'll pass... All it will lead to if I am succesfull is that my teachings will after my death be taken out of context and be the reason or rather miserable excuse for bloodshed and violence, and I getting the blame but in death no longer able to defend myself against that.
Jesus already taught me that one.

A new MLK in the making

But as the other guy said you should be a preacher and don’t worry cause that won’t happen as long as you build your church in the right place. P.s. how old are you

In the right place? Tell me, what is "the right place"? (If you are able to answer that, or THINK you are able to answer that, you'll expose yourself for a true fool).
And my age is none of your business, now is it? Well since I've already thrown it all over the internet, I'm 44.

Dude read the Bible and you to will go to heaven oh and except Christ as In trusting him into your heart.trust me you won’t want to go to the bad place and eventually die forever in the lake of fire.

dude listen,i dont think you have to read the bible to go into heaven, we need to have faith in god, being good does not always mean your going to heaven, you need to believe that he would save you, and his trust .

I don’t understand a single word in this.

And that I expected, and tells me all I need to know!

Yeah, I know that was harsh, and I had my reasons to be so.

Do you always speak like a person who was alive during Jesus no offense.

And you shouldn’t call me a fool cause I’m only 11

Age is not a valid excuse for those kinds of things. I have no respect for people hiding behind age. Oh, and I ain't pretending to be there... I said it before. I did research.

It is important to note that nobody knows if God is real or not, and for that I deem everybody to either claims God to be real or fake false until solid scientific evidence is provided. (And for that reason I am not an atheist, as an atheist is convinced God does not exist).

All I can say is that if God is real, and is the entity I take him for, you will not provide him any service by listening to zealots. Not even by going to church or reading the Bible or whatever. But by being good to yourself and other people in (as far as you can) perfect balance.

I don't think that if you commit crimes every day, but are going to church every Sunday, God will think of you as a better person than if you help people every day and try to do you best to make the world a better place without going to church.

But remember this... I think God does not want you to rely on Him, but to rely on yourself and the people around you. Teaching of many prophets even state this, even many prophets that predate Jesus. As far as the meme is concerned humor is the sense of relativation. And I believe God gave it to us for a very important reason. But that also means that you must be able to make humor of religion itself, and not blindly assume what others wrote about God or those who preached for Him. Think for yourself, and decide for yourself what is write or wrong. If you think God can help you there, good. If you think a few jokes (eve about God) can help you there. Also good. Nearly all religions forbid enforcing the word of God or their prophets on people, though. That is also where Backofhater123 went wrong.

And once again you didn't understand what I wrote, and this time it's even more clear than before.

okay i understand

please dont raise your voice at me

hey! ur really good at this shit. I'm also christian and u r right thekidwiththegel206! i think that if we just believe and trust god on what he's doing to our lives. he is doing it for a purpose. I think that we are all born to do something in the world and we need to accept that whatever shitty world u think u are in, just remember this is all part of his plan. we need to also accept that we are all children of god and we need to keep hold of that thought.

Hi thekidwiththeege206, I don't know if you are a Protestant but if you are, I'd like to invite you to the Evangelical stream which I moderate.

imgflip.com/m/Evangelicalism

From reading your posts here, it sounds like that you believe in salvation by Faith Alone, am I correct?

im christian and yes i believe in salvation and faith

yep

No... Nor do I have any ambition to be one.

Hi Jeroen; the overfanaticism is an unfortunate thing with Christians; we are imperfect human beings subject to human passions made worse by our zeal.

God had never intended this, nor condoned any persecution of other religions (John 16:2). We are to live peacibly with other people ; treat them kindly though we disagree with them (1 Corinthians 10:32 & Colossians 4:6).

As for Jesus... to be honest, He didn't outright say that He is God, but He has made strong acknowledgemnt that He is, and that provoked the Pharisees to stone HIm when he said "I am" (John 8:58-59). That is a direct reference to Exodus 3:15 when Moses asked God what is His name. Then God answered "I AM WHO I AM"

Later, in speaking to the Jews saying that "I and the father am one" (John 10:30) the Jews tried to stone Him, Jesus asked why, and they've charged Him with the deliberate attempt to make Himself God (John 10:31-33). Jesus... never denied it.

Please read the following passage:

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.
- John 10:34-39

By identifying Himself as the "Son of God", He is equaling Himself as God.

Finally, after the resurrection of Christ, He came to His disciples but not all as they were not in one place. One of the disciples He yet visited doubted that He rose again from the dead, saying "Unless i touch his hands and his feet and put my finger on his side I will not believe" (John 20:25).

When Jesus arrived He asked Thomas, the one who had doubted, to do exactly what he had wanted to do, "Be not unbelieving but believing". Read what happened next:

28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
- John 20:28-29

Jews are strict Monotheists (believers in the one God) as they should. If Jesus was not God, He would have to sharply rebuke him but He did not.

All we know of Jesus is that we know nothing at all... Historian deem it proven he existed, and well, that's all, as even they are not sure. I am not even sure that Jesus himself deemed himself "Son of God"... as a matter of fact, I think his words were taken out of context. He often spoke of "Father God" after all, but he actually intereted that as "father of us all". It should be noted that the text in the bible are very old, written in a language nobody speaks anymore, and many phrases of old are in modern languages open for many interpretations. Also, it was NOT Jesus who invented the Christian religion. It was an apostle who never met Jesus (because Jesus was already dead for 300 years when he came), and historians appear to have strong leads indicating this apostle merely used the teachings of Jesus as a propaganda against the Romans and the Jews (irony has it that the Romans took this over and spread it over Europe and that's why Christianity is the largest religion today), and thus falsifications of the original texts are very likely.

This being said I'll leave it up to you if you wanna believe the Bible or these historical speculations (as it's not likely the full truth will ever be revealed). Even among believers there are many interpretations about these texts. None of the verses you cited indicate Jesus to be God or even identifiying himself as such. During my strict catholic lessons the teacher also impressed multiple times that Jesus did not want to stand above others and that he even deemed it a sin. That would refute the entire idea that Jesus saw himself as God or even as His emissary. Also Jesus deemed all men a "son of god" so that would include himself, at least according to my teacher. This would also come in line with the Jewish teachings in the book of Genesis where it's stated that man was created after the image of God. If the Bible still makes more clear claims Jesus would be God or even His emissary or chosen one, then the scripts are in contradiction with themselves somehow. That or my teachers (which include actual priests) never understood anything, and that would be very great irony.
The however is still that the original point was that joking about religion would be an insult to God. That it's not. And joking about Jesus is therefore also not. Not to mention that the joke is not even targeting Jesus, but rather the people following his teachers back then and today, most of all the latter group. That yeller failed to notice

Actually it is not at all ... assuming that the Bible was written in dead langauges.

1. Those who translated and copied the Bible from Hebrew to Greek (Septuagint); from Aramaic to Greek, did so extemely carefully. They would maticulously copy one word, say a prayer and copy another word, and so it goes.

2. A jump from Koine Greek to modern Greek is not that wide of a jump.

3. The Old Testament we have today matches the oldest found amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls which are dated 100 BC.

4. There are over 50,000 copies of the New Testament in comparison to much earlier historical works such as the Illiad,

5.. It is correct that the Synoptic Gospels and the Gospel of John were written 30-50 years after the resurrection of Christ. However, in comparison to other historical books, it is incomparible as some were written 700 years after the event, and others a 1,200 years after... yet we depend on those sources to teach histories based on them (See source below). And God is able to keep the memories of the writers fresh.

6. Finally, in the Old Testament, you can find Jesus written there. For example, the Trinity is clearly evident in Isaiah 48:16-17 and alluded to in Genesis 1:2, 26, 18:1-2, & Isaiah 44:6. And believe me, the verses I've used were not taken off context. I've also addressed the part on the fact that Jesus called God His father

I said it before and I'll say it again. My teachers made it clear that all human beings are children of God.... Since Jesus is also a human, that would therefore include him as well. Followers taking that out of context is deemed very likely...
We must also take into account the religious scripts (which includes but is not limited to the Bible) are nearly always written in metaphors and should therefore never be taken literally. That being taken in mind things can easily be taken out of context.

Also, and take this from a novel writer, religious or not, the only one who can interpret written text the way it should be interpreted is the author themselves. That is by the way also the reason why the Quran may not be translated... Also languages change and also writing styles do. What is a literal statement, and what is merely an idiom, is hard to tell, and telling stories in metaphors, is still done by writers today, but the choice of wording for metaphors changed over time. All that being said, what matches old manuscripts and what does not tells me little. A few years ago some manuscripts were found that imply that the story of Adam and Eve as it's told in the Bible today is completely different from how it was originally written and the ones who studied them claim those scripts pre-date the oldest scripts about them. Geez, now we get into guessing work....

Also Jesus claiming to be God or even his emissary would also imply extreme arrogance, and he always preached humility, which would also be a kind of contradiction.

We can, of course, rant on like this forever... In the end I know one thing... If Jesus existed (which I deem likely) he was just a mortal human being. In his own day not even something special, as preachers like him were legio back then, and hardly noticed, not even when they had followers as that too was nothing odd back then. It was just because his teachings were used by apostles centuries later that he rose into the world fame and is honored as a holy one ever since. And with what I came to know about him by researching things, I have the feeling that if he ever knew people are calling him God, he'd feel insulted. But hey, since nobody knows and all we can do is "believe", the entire discussion was pointless from the start. When everything is proven (either true or false) we'd no longer speak of "believe" but of "knowing facts"... And even historians have none.

YOU
I said it before and I'll say it again. My teachers made it clear that all human beings are children of God.... Since Jesus is also a human, that would therefore include him as well. Followers taking that out of context is deemed very likely...

ME
I've never denied that He was human; I've cited John 1:14 and Philippians 2:7-8 in acknowledgment of that fact. I’ll further acknowledge that He was human every way, except… He did not sin (Hebrews 4:15).

YOU
We must also take into account the religious scripts (which includes but is not limited to the Bible) are nearly always written in metaphors and should therefore never be taken literally. That being taken in mind things can easily be taken out of context.

ME
That does not apply to the Bible. Just because it’s a religious book doesn’t mean it has to be interpreted metaphorically.

YOU
Also, and take this from a novel writer, religious or not, the only one who can interpret written text the way it should be interpreted is the author themselves.

ME
And if the author intended it to be taken literally, what then?

YOU
That is by the way also the reason why the Quran may not be translated... Also languages change and also writing styles do.

ME
Languages change but not so much that the essence of the message is completely lost.

YOU
What is a literal statement, and what is merely an idiom, is hard to tell, and telling stories in metaphors, is still done by writers today, but the choice of wording for metaphors changed over time.

ME
Understood, but that would definitely be true if the people who wrote it no longer exists; that there were no commentaries written. The Jewish people miraculously survived despite centuries of persecution. They’ve written volumes of commentaries in the form of the Talmud, they’ve largely kept to themselves because they were so marginalized, and they’re stubbornly traditional. That accounts for the Old Testament (OT).

For the New Testament, as said before, there are 5,000 manuscripts of it. There are also volumes of commentaries made by scholars, pastors, priests and theologians that spanned centuries. And unlike the Jews, the Europeans have yet to face the threat of extinction. And while there were instances of mass death (the Black Plague), there was no destruction of documents in a mass scale such as the Library of Alexandria that threatened to end all that we know now. And this was made even better when the printing press was invented in the 16th century. It is not to say that can’t happen at all but God has a way to preserve knowledge (Psalms 33:11 & Proverbs 22:12)

YOU
All that being said, what matches old manuscripts and what does not tells me little. A few years ago some manuscripts were found that imply that the story of Adam and Eve as it's told in the Bible today is completely different from how it was originally written and the ones who studied them claim those scripts pre-date the oldest scripts about them. Geez, now we get into guessing work....

ME
What is it called?

YOU
Also Jesus claiming to be God or even his emissary would also imply extreme arrogance, and he always preached humility, which would also be a kind of contradiction.

ME
Not if He’s really God. It may be arrogant to you but it is no more arrogant than to say that the United States is the sole superpower… it’s merely stating the fact. And in the Bible the deity of Christ is indisputable.

YOU
We can, of course, rant on like this forever... In the end I know one thing... If Jesus existed (which I deem likely) he was just a mortal human being. In his own day not even something special, as preachers like him were legio back then, and hardly noticed, not even when they had followers as that too was nothing odd back then.

ME
It is a mistake to deny something simply because it doesn’t make sense to you (Isaiah 55:8-9). Foot Soldiers can complain about why they’re there on the muddy trench, but they could only see from the ground level. They do not see what the Generals see as latter are fed actionable intelligence from satellites above and scout units behind the lines.

YOU
It was just because his teachings were used by apostles centuries later that he rose into the world fame and is honored as a holy one ever since.

ME
Um… that is a gross exaggeration. The oldest NT was dated in the 2nd century but even textual critics such as Bart Erhman acknowledged that the Gospels were written 30-50 years after Christ’s death. You might still argue that the Apostles made Him to be something that He is not, but … they’ve all died except one… for what they saw.: the resurrected Jesus Christ.

YOU
And with what I came to know about him by researching things, I have the feeling that if he ever knew people are calling him God, he'd feel insulted. But hey, since nobody knows and all we can do is "believe", the entire discussion was pointless from the start. When everything is proven (either true or false) we'd no longer speak of "believe" but of "knowing facts"... And even historians have none.

I'm sorry 5,000 New Testament copies

Here's the source:

https://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

I hope you don't mind I've had enough of this entire discussion. We're going around in circles, and I will not change my mind, anyway, and stand by my original statements. And it's clear the same goes for you. Especially since none of the "evidence" ever provided in discussions like these actually proved anything that cannot be refuted by facts, and therefore may not count as "evidence" (sorry, I've also researched law and order, and not to mention I was educated in science were the word "evidence" is deemed forbidden unless no other theories are possible anymore, which is when it handles religion always possible). I do consider the entire thought of a mortal being as "God" or even His "emissary" or "Chosen One" blasphemy, as who are we mortals to even think we can grasp the will of an entity like God? Putting Jesus in that position is therefore too in my point of view, and taking his quotes literally and doing linguistic examination, I even doubt that is what he meant. What also goes is that nearly all teachings of preachers and prophets were taken out of their context after the preacher/prophet died, those of Jesus are unfortunately no exception. Not to mention that Christianity, like all other great religions, has gallons of blood on its name, which was also something Jesus was know to be against, and yet they did claim to act on either his name or God's name. Terrorist attacks by Muslims can be compared to this, as my research about jihad indicated that the rules of jihad actually forbid it to be used for revenge, retribution or simply spreading fear, and that it may only be used as a defensive mechanism... None of the attacks that came to my attention are in accordance of that rule, yet if you bend the way it's written, you can still justify them based on those rules.
The quotes and scripts used to identify Jesus as a God, are also full of lines that can easily be bent. Especially when taken in mind how people talked in the past and how they do now.

Plus, for a true scientist/analyst, religious script are by default deemed a lie unless historical evidence proves otherwise. No historical evidence exists, only some leads, and those leads give a completely different picture, but these leads are also not proven. But that doesn't matter, all scripts provided point to what I said, actually, but due to the genius way in which they are written, easily taken out of context... And evidence of the latter is provided. Nothing more.

Of course one cannot fit an essay on a meme template, you can certainly fit in a short premise, and then post your argument on the comment section.

YOU
Oh, and one final point of critic... you consequently misspelled my name... First the "o" and then the "e" ;)

ME
My apologies, Jereon!

YOU
When you claim I deny God's existence you lose the debate by default. I never said that. As a matter of fact, there are many things in this universe that seem so well thought-out that the non-existence of a God seems not plausible to me.

ME
But you would deny doctrines that offer no physical or historical evidence? Sometimes there isn’t one for every miracle or person; that’s the unfortunate reality of life. Your argumentation has so far been that of a typical “Seeing is believing” kind of argumentation

YOU
That is another problem religious people have. Thinking that when you don't believe in the Bible or in Church that you would deny the existence of an entity such as God exists.

ME
It depends on whom they’re speaking to. As said before, your argumentation appears to be a typical characteristic of. The same Christians so used to debating Atheists presumed people like you to be such as ones they’re accustomed to debating when you deny the scriptures.

YOU
I frankly don't know. Plus people who know my "teachings" know that I've always "preached" that if there was no Christianity or Islam that the attacks we now blame Islam for would also take place, but that a different reason would be sought.

ME
The fault of Christianity to Communism, unless it is built into the religions or ideologies, is not the religions or ideologies itself but the people in it. As bad as what the followers of has done, the crimes committed in its name doesn’t make it false.

YOU
I do loathe Christanity because it contains may confirmed untruths and also how people bring it up all the time to defend opinions that today would no longer apply, but because the Bible states that <whatever excuse SEEMS applicable> we can see that religion blinds people.

ME
Please give me an example of.

YOU
It is BECAUSE I am open that I came to these conclusions, as all information I've been fed is the one religious people come up with. It's rather because I've always seen beyond the scope of what people tell, not only in religious context by the way, that I have taken things from a different view.

ME
I think you’ll find me of a different sort though I will, more or less, affirm the conservative point of view.

From Christianity to communism.... Only 2% of the people I've had a discussion about communism, made clear they actually knew what it was, why it was created, and also why it never existed. (No the USSR was not communist. They only claimed they were, which is the case with all "communist" countries).

"Please give me an example of."

Easy, this entire senseless discussion is already one... I mean the post I originally replied to... Not to mention I already mentioned one earlier... So technically you asked something for which an answer was already provided. Not to mention how much imgflip is full of memes defying scientific facts about homosexuality, and when you ask further you get to the point that their points are based on the bible... And maybe the most extreme case... flat-earthers.... Their entire theory is based on the Bible debunking (or at least attempting to) entire fact the world is a globe, which is already evidenced by if they were right the internet could not exist, as it relies on sattellite technology, which cannot be real according to the rules flat-earthers make up (as a satellite could not be subject to lesser gravity in their point of view). Turning a blind-eye is easy....

Also brings us to a point as you mentioned religion is only as bad as their followers. That is correct, but the entire point that began this was that the words of Jesus were taken out of their context, in order to ban an innocent joke by kewlew. This entire discussion that came after was never relevant and kills the joke, so basically that point is proven. Congratulations! 😜

Are you still impressed by me?

YOU
And by the way, records of the real Jesus do seem to exist, however it's always hard to tell if they are either real or fake or even referring to the same person, as the name "Jesus" was in the time and place were it all took place more common than "John" and "Pete" in today's English speaking countries.

ME
How old are they? If they’re written close or around Jesuis’ time, then fake or real, suggest strongly in His existence. While you would disagree, the Gospels are the historical documents you can definitely rely on. If they’re mere products of fiction to prop up a belief system then Christianity would have died out long ago due to heavy persecution.

The Apostles have nothing to gain by propagating lies; they know of the dangers of spreading a belief that is blasphemous to the Jews, and treason to the Romans. When Jesus died they were but a small group. If Jesus had not resurrected then the Jews would have not believed them.

The Jews by religious default would only believe if 1) the scriptures agree & 2) if they see miracles. Jesus was publically crucified. They would naturally want a public show of. And that’s what they were sufficiently given prior to and afterward.

When Jesus died, the heavy veil which stands between the living and the holy of holies was torn in two as evidence of Christ; then after the resurrection dead came alive showing themselves before the living (Matthew 27:51-53). When Jesus rose again, He showed Himself to the disciples, more possibly, for 40 days before His ascension (Acts 1:3). His bodily ascension was also seen by the Apostles (Ibid 1:9). The Apostles also did miracles themselves since the resurrection

If none of those things happen, then they have but words.

YOU
It's actually inside religion that stubborness rules... Afraid to admit that what you've always believed might be untrue, or afraid of change, and wanting to cling to the old ways.... I don't know... It is however a historical fact that religion has always done more harm than good.

ME
That is true simply because Atheism did not exist as a movement until the middle of the Elightenment Period. Give it time, the Atheist will establish his own history of evil. Then again, there have always been Atheists attested by Psalms 14:1. It could rightly be said that those who disbelieve God did evil, and so they have. Murder, is an act of disbelief; torture, mass murder, etc all things against the teachings of God. The faithful would not because they fear and obey His commandments. The Atheist do not so what do they fear but being caught?

It is not at all to say that Atheists are incapable of moral parity with believers and the religious likewise incapable of mistakes; but you must admit that without the belief in God the Atheist apart from law have only his conscience while the Theist his conscience, and the fear and love of God.

YOU
The truth can only be revealed to those who don't cling to what others have written and especially when the texts are over 2000 years old. I also do not believe everything the media tells me, but I always do my own thinking on matters, backing that up with looking things up.

ME
As a general rule, yes, but not with Christianity.

YOU
They only claimed they were, which is the case with all "communist" countries).

ME
Understood

YOU
...Not to mention how much imgflip is full of memes defying scientific facts about homosexuality,

ME
I've done my own research and found that while there is a common traits that that Homosexuals have, that is no proof of a "Gay Gene", nor is it a Scientific Fact.

YOU
and when you ask further you get to the point that their points are based on the bible... And maybe the most extreme case... flat-earthers....

ME
The Bible never stated that the earth is flat but round (Isaiah 40:22). The notion of the sun "knows it's oing down" while Geocetric in appearance is a language made to the level that people can comprehend. Suppose that one day we're all reduced to consuming Meal Replacement mixes... how do you tell those in the medieval age that? "In the future, we'll all be eating sand and is good for us"? While the language still seemed to be so, not to the vantage of the sun where it "knows" it's going down... from the views of people.

Furthermore to tell them that the Sun is at the center, there are different planet out there, and that the universe has trillions of stars would distract them from what is . They live in a mostly agrarian society where they do not have the leisure time to wonder. It is also really irrelevant as they need to center their attention to spiritual development of character, purity, and devotion to God

YOU
Are you still impressed by me?

ME
Not so much but I still like you. But with respect, you really do not know the other side of the argument. If I'm wrong, then why the reluctance on your part to engage futher with me?

I know that your knowledge of is based on what you've heard willingly from theists. That level of openess is a good start but insufficient. It's time to listen to experts such as Willam Lane Craig, read books from Lee Strobel (a former Atheist who've written "The Case for Christ" series); read the bible for yourself... before you claim presumptuously that such and such passages are out of context.

And continue to discuss & debate with people like me.

Do you want to prove that you're still open minded? Make a meme relevant to our debate and I will surely come.

Homosexuality is not a GENE... Homosexuality is caused by other things, and it *is* natural.

"Read the bible yourself"
The Bible was obligated literature during my MAVO period (MAVO is in the Netherlands a school similar to Highschool in the US, although not exactly the same). And I say it's out of context for many many reasons. 1st, after 2000 years, it's almost a safe assumption and nobody can interpret things said back then well, due to the many generations past with different insights on things based on time, 2nd, if you know what communism in and what it became, or rather how we know it, you can see the perfect example of how things go. 3rd, I've read the important lines from several stories, and in the full context of the chapters they were part of. In many discussions (not only religious ones) taking out one line to make a point, while the vital information was as a result left out, leading to people taking things out of their context or to wrong interpretations or assumptions. Political populists use that technique a lot, and so do lawyers. It is the way to lie without actually telling a lie. It happens in all subjects.

I do rather not use memes to show my point of view about religion... Memes are just too short for that, and I've already seen memes being wrongly interpretated about lighter subjects. It's a pity my work as an author is written in Dutch and that I found out the hard way you should not translate your own work to a foreign language (which English is from my perspective). I can advice you to play Final Fantasy X, as the story behind that game, about the fictional religion of Yevon, depicts very well how I think about religion... In general, including but not limited to Christianity. I advice to play the game multiple times, as the story is very well thought-through. The "maesters of Yevon" turning out to be corrupt (sorry for spoiling that, but that is soon obvious) is actually not the main point. You'll have to understand the full aspects in which Yevon is set up and how main character Tidus solves the entire mystery behind the monster called "Sin" simply by asking critical questions.

And asking critital questions and looking things up that always leave me in doubt (in that perspective the internet can be wonderful) is how I always lived. And I hate taboos on this, so I do this on everything, from science, to sex, to religion, to... well... everything. This also brought me to my views on the ridiculous acting on COVID-19.

YOU
I hope you don't mind I've had enough of this entire discussion. We're going around in circles, and I will not change my mind, anyway, and stand by my original statements. And it's clear the same goes for you.

ME
Jereon... I've been in enough debates to know what that looks like, and our debate is far from that. What is really holding you from believing?

You’ve said that the passages I've given are most likely taken off context or twisted, therefore you won't believe it. Isn't that a presumption on your part?. You said that the idea that man calling himself God is extremely arrogant so you won't believe it. Is that not an act of intellectual bias?

You refused to believe because there’s no historical or physical evidence for Christianity. That as one learns of science every claim of scripture made is refused by facts but did you even look at the other side of the argument? Sometimes truth or fact are not always backed by physical evidence. Proof? The Big Bang (not that I believed it).

You believed that even though you've never seen it; there is no physical evidence for it, and there are no records of it. And yet you would deny God's existence because to you it has no aforementioned evidence. Since the Bible are full miracles you disbelieved it but you believed the Big Bang despite the given claim that nothing.., caused something... which resulted in the universe we have now.

You loathe to accept Christianity as you do with all others because of the bloodshed committed by Theists suchs the Jihadists, but what about Communism?

20 million in the USSR by the hand of Stalin alone; in China 20 million (apart from the Great Leap Forward)? In Cambodia, 1 million by Pol Pot? Vietnam, Yugoslavia, East Germany, South America, etc? And how many were arrested, tortured, sent to re-education camps, enslaved, etc? They weren’t committed by Theists, Jeroen.

While Communism is not an Atheist movement, it proved that Atheists are just as capable of barbarity as Theists.

And lastly you would disbelieve a religious text because it is religious… unless it is historically verified. Sometimes circumstances prevent. Jesus lived in the fringes of the Roman empire so you could hardly expect any record of him outside of the NT. However what you do have are records of the movement itself

Jereon, you're right, I won't be able to convince you because it appears to me you're never open to begin with

I prefer to believe only what I can confirm, not to mention that I've seen christians try to debunk facts completely proven by science in a matter of which not refuting is possible anymore. The evolution theory from Darwin being the most famous example, but there are many more of these.

When you claim I deny God's existence you lose the debate by default. I never said that. As a matter of fact, there are many things in this universe that seem so well thought-out that the non-existence of a God seems not plausible to me. That is another problem religious people have. Thinking that when you don't believe in the Bible or in Church that you would deny the existence of an entity such as God exists. I frankly don't know. Plus people who know my "teachings" know that I've always "preached" that if there was no Christianity or Islam that the attacks we now blame Islam for would also take place, but that a different reason would be sought. I do loathe Christanity because it contains may confirmed untruths and also how people bring it up all the time to defend opinions that today would no longer apply, but because the Bible states that <whatever excuse SEEMS applicable> we can see that religion blinds people.

It is BECAUSE I am open that I came to these conclusions, as all information I've been fed is the one religious people come up with. It's rather because I've always seen beyond the scope of what people tell, not only in religious context by the way, that I have taken things from a different view. And by the way, records of the real Jesus do seem to exist, however it's always hard to tell if they are either real or fake or even referring to the same person, as the name "Jesus" was in the time and place were it all took place more common than "John" and "Pete" in today's English speaking countries. It's actually inside religion that stubborness rules... Afraid to admit that what you've always believed might be untrue, or afraid of change, and wanting to cling to the old ways.... I don't know... It is however a historical fact that religion has always done more harm than good. The truth can only be revealed to those who don't cling to what others have written and especially when the texts are over 2000 years old. I also do not believe everything the media tells me, but I always do my own thinking on matters, backing that up with looking things up.

Oh, and one final point of critic... you consequently misspelled my name... First the "o" and then the "e" ;)

Jesus is so evident in the Old Testament that I can piece back the New Testament because of the many Messianic prophecies He had fulfilled.

Isaiah 7:14 says that He will be born of a virgin

Isaiah 9:6 tells us that He will be called "Wonderful, Councellor, the mighty God, the everlasting fathe, the prince of peace"

Micah 5:2 states where He will be born

Daniel 9:25 says that He will be born in troublesome times... that the roads will be rebuilt

Deuteronomy 18:18 says that there will be one coming like Moses. that in terms of law-giving and miracles. No other came that truly matched that prophecy (Matthew 5:20).

Daniel 9:26 predicted that the Messiah will die

Isaiah 53:5-6 tells us why He will die

Psalm 22:16 speaks of the manner of His death... "they've pierced my hands and my feet"

But Psalm 16:10 states that He will not stay dead. the Holy One is Jesus, the same in Isaiah 48:16-17

.There are a lot more that He fulfilled, 30 at least. See source below:

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/video/messianic-prophecies-what-are-they/

Now, there are other passages that confirmed, without a doubt that Jesus is God.

John 1:1-3, and 14 says that "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." Verse 14 "And the word was made fleshs and dwelt among us...." In verse 14 Jesus came down and became man. He is both fully God and fully man.

In Phiilippians 2:6-8 it reads:

6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,[a]
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,[b] being born in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
- Philippians 2:6-8

The word "Form" in verse 6 is the greek word "Morphe" and it means essence. Jesus is essentially God. the rest of the verses speaks of Jesus' humanity. You may have heard the argument that Jesus couldn'tt be God because He was subservient to God. Yes He is, because He humbled Himself for us.

And the fact that Jesus called God His father doesn't make Him any less of God anymore than a wife in comparison to her husband (1 Corinthians 11:2).

Here is a link you can use to read the bible passages themselves:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A58%2C+Exodus+3%3A14%2C+John+10%3A28-30%2C+31-38%2C+20%3A25-29%2C+1%3A1-3%2C+14%2C+Philippians+2%3A6-8%2C+1+Corinthians+11%3A2&version=ESV