good point too.

haha, thanks

Yes and no,(to "problem solved") Oxycoten is legal and they kill many ppl but at least its controlled.

we have discussed long ago my family member who is on methadone, she gets it for free and yet every now and then she slips up..goes after smack

I am not saying you are wrong at all, I wish i knew the answer, but I know not changing what we do isnt helping..

I look at Amsterdam where their drug problem is not as bad as here.
I saw a show once and they have designated areas etc. Thats a good idea

But if drugs were legal, there would be at least standards, less od's from junky junk

yea, the cartel is pretty bad and pretty big

You would have to sign a waiver or something if you wanted to use.
I could see drug co's getting sued for ppl od ing..

nobody is asking WHY so many americans are falling into addiction and suicide.they either gloss over the reasons,or weaponize addiction to attack (fill in political party here) but I never see an honest discussion on this matter.

I see a lot of media circles blame,dismiss and ridicule the junkie,the addict,the disenfranchised and dispossessed,but no examination on why this situation is getting worse.

Portugal almost 20 years ago decriminalized drugs.
I remember reading a letter from the former chief of police and drug czar who was furious.he was frothing at the mouth that this would create more drug dependence,create more crime and insecurity.this letter he wrote was 15 years after the policy went into effect and he was quite contrite.

turns out he was wrong.
drug use in Portugal=down
overdoses=down
crime=down

maybe we need to recognize the war on drugs is an abysmal failure,and maybe we need to address this problem as a health issue rather than a criminal one.
cheaper to help junkies than throw them in prison.
average cost to local municipalities yearly:
homeless=30 grand
prison=40 grand
clean needles and supervision=8 grand

just my .02

Yea, I think they should at least try it, or try it in just 1 state, see what happens..
I nominate California.. The Cartels have a stronger hold there and may be beneficial

They did, in the Bahamas anyways. Legalized cocaine briefly in the 1980s. Addiction and hospitalization rates zoomed immediately after. And so it became illegal again, and they went down again.

In a way they sort of did in the USA in the 80s also, coke in fact. Ronald Reagan - biggest coke dealer in history - had so much of it brought here for distribution in poor areas that it started the crack epidemic. Ever see one of them neighborhoods? I did when I moved to Arthur Ave in '92 - Arthur Ave, officially known as Belmont, the setting of A Bronx Tale. I went from a suburban like neighborhood that was clean to one infested, although that was towards the end of the scourge. Guess which one had more addicts, crimes, and destroyed lives?

Also, I ended up making friends by hanging out in the park drinking. Since they were mostly drinking or getting stoned themselves, and hardcore (no cutesy weekend toking bs), guess how many of them are still alive? Some were homeless too.
I stopped alcohol in '96. Strange, I didn't die from it since I quit.

Translation: People can poison themselves only if they can poison themselves. Otherwise they can't and thus won't.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/can-brain-implants-fight-addiction/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=EDM-FB-AHP&utm_content=BrainStimulation&utm_term=Content&campaign_id=23844004979090455&adset_id=23844056504050455&ad_id=23844056504040455&fbclid=IwAR0pNReEeMHomw1xFY8P7XYL_6uX8EnWbTD3TlQzAmPubhFmv3-7oo93aL0 chek it out, just saw this

4reel, i was like wow

From Medicine to Psychology to Sociology, addiction has been well studied.
Peer pressure is a good starter, the hip factor being a thing. Too much pocket change and no responsibilities nor consequences. Boredom in suburbia. Self-medication for those suffering whatever stress and mental illnesses.

The crack epidemic was a ghetto phenomenom, as Nancy 'Just Say No' Reagan's husband's handler's intended, akin to the FBI supplying them heroin a generation earlier to keep the restive natives docile. (Incidentally, Cowboy Ron was all for gun control when he was Govenor, as were the rest of the "THE COLOREDS ARE COMING! THE COLOREDS ARE COMING!" Middle America quaking at the thoughts of the downtrodden rising)
Nowadays we have opiate derivatives addiction in the burbs. NOW it's bad.

Britain fought a war to force the Chinese to become addicts. It worked. Communist Chinese eliminated this addiction by eliminating the addicts. Bit extreme, but just as the Crack Epidemic crested and waned, so will the heroin fad pass for the rich kids we're so concerned about regarding a centuries old problem that was given token attention to when it was just the problem of the 'those' people. If not, natural selection will take its course, just like it was allowed to in the slums.

The wars on all crimes have been doomed before they began. Hell, even the Gods couldn't stop sin with the promise of eternal damnation. That's why things are illegal, not because the industrial prison complex needs a steady supply of clients, but because people harm, suffer and die.

Mind you, most crimes are committed by those under the influence, and addiction is the root of a huge amount of crime. Giving up and leaving them to their own devices is not going to stop the Cookie Jar Phenomenom. Witness the epidemic of sciatic glaucoma plaguing the youth in Cali and wherver else medical cannabis hemp (because relabeling makes it so much nicer for granny to tolerate) has been legalized.

Now if you excuse me, I'm gonna go campaign to send free e-ciggs to every US household to stem the increasing deaths of stupid idiots trying just a little too hard to look cool.

Because the cartels would simply retire just like the Mafia doesn't transport tons of cigarettes from Indian Reservations to avoid the taxes? TOBACCO cigarrettes.

and of course there is always a vice to exploit,which is where i think you are going and fair enough...
but the scope would be severely diminished.
which translates to less violence.

reduce the black market and you reduce violence on a whole.

don't see many shootouts over running numbers.

The mob is across the street from me, literally - as in right out the window as well as down the block.

The Mafia didn't go legit, just got neutered by the FBI. They'll hire Albanians, for example, for the dirty work now.
What you listed are venues for laundering dirty money. Or with booze, ways of cirmcumventing taxes & regs just liek with cigarettes. Meanwhile Albanian gangs are up and comers, just like Russian mobs Yakuza, Chinese Triads... The Russians are particuarly fearsome lot taking over Brooklyn - not shy of brutality, and consisting of many former KGB types, so exploiting business & tech is yard play for them. Brawn AND brains, and they're just getting started.

When I lived round Arthur as I mentioned elsewhere on this thread, you didn't have to walk farther than 3 blocks to pass another social club with mobsters hanging out. The Mafia wouldn't allow bodegas to sell pot there like they do in other neighborhoods. Yet even with that and crack's grip back when, no shootouts. Drug related crimes weren't about Bloods and Crips turf wars like in LA or Chicago. Crack is a quick high, needs replenishing. Crack heads commit crimes to pay for it. Heroin addicts, Methheads in other places - legalizing it won't turn them into upstanding citizens. They're still gonna break in, steal, assault, rape, even kill. Legal won't nix the need for the next fix.

Don't want to make this sound like all about anecdotes and emotional pleas, but we all know this IS what happens. The drug problem isn't about Mexican cartels shooting Mormons south of the border, it's about neighbors, friends, etc, here destroying their own lives and taking others down with them as they do what it takes to supply their need. Giving them permission to do so won't change their behavior. THAT'S why it's illegal and will need to continue to be so as long as they're available and desirable.

remove an essential facet of that market,in this case drugs,and you reduce the need to for violence to address conflicts with those who do business in the black market.

which it appears we disagree.

humans like their hooch.no matter the form.
be it meth,booze or gambling.

making it illegal has not changed this very human factor.
even by your own commentary you are proving my point.
the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure,and has only opened doors to those who wish to profit from peoples misery.creating a vicious cycle that feeds on itself.

making something legal does not mean no rules.
you can drink yourself into a stupor as a god-fearing red-blooded American!
you get behind the wheel,and now we have a problem.

in my opinion,you can have an orgy with chocolate covered hookers,doing sugary lines off their ass-cracks in the comfort of your home.no judgement here.
do that in your back yard,where my kids can peep,and now we have a problem.

i am not making a moral argument here,but rather a practical one.
when you make something illegal that is in high demand.you create a black market.because SOMEONE is going to fill that void,and with the inherent risk..means massive profits.

and the only way a black market can regulate itself is through violence.
i realize we disagree here,but i suspect it is only by degrees,and me possibly butchering my point.

Really? You can still buy black market marijuana in the legal states for cheaper than the government price. Legalizing drugs is a moronic idea.

i made my argument.
and you made....a comment.

but allow me to back up my opinion with an experiment that was attempted in Portugal.
now you are still free to disagree,but you are NOT free to ignore that what i propose is not all that radical,and is not a new concept.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight/

if you find legalizing drugs so distasteful,so egregious,so moronic..
then shouldn't we,by YOUR OWN LOGIC,make booze and smokes illegal as well?
they kill more than heroin does on yearly basis.
create more health issues than meth or cocaine.
drunk drivers? don't even get me started.

but you won't.
most americans who claim to be all about the "freedom and liberty" won't.
because they are hypocrites.
like busy body aunties in church judging the teenage girls for their short skirts and bright red lip stick.

what business is it of YOURS what i put in my body?
f**k off with that authoritarian bullshit.

/ looks at watch
sophistry incoming in
3
2
1

aaaaand GO sharpshooter!