Athiest say God can't be proven so mustn't exist. How about other things that everyone knows exists but can't be measured?

A friend, who is an astrophysicist, believes that spirit is a form of energy. If he is correct, then the fact spirit can't be seen with the naked eye or measured by presently popular scientific procedures, doesn't discount it's existence. And as most of us who believe in a higher power acknowledge that "God", Bramha -whatever we call the Grand Creator- is spirit in nature, we therefore also acknowledge a basic element of the universe. And thus we accept the scientific nature of the Grand Creator.

Just thought I'd throw that out there :)

In all seriousness though, I agree with you.
I hope that one day we'll know enough about these things to (fingers crossed) empirically define them.

P.S: I don't know what's up with all these pricks commenting on your meme, but good luck with that...

It's quite impressive to me how animated some people become when it comes to convincing others that a certain being doesn't exist. But I did expect more respectful comments. I certainly didn't mean to start a flame war. It's not the first time we've brought up God here so not sure why the outrage.

I believe it’s a spiritual thing. Don’t take it personal. I’ve noticed sometimes that whenever you bring up the name of Jesus or mention Hell with some people, they get angry. It’s not you they’re mad at, it’s Jesus. Jesus even said this would happen. Man’s sinful nature is at enmity with God. Until a person humbles themself and honestly seeks the truth, they will not surrender to God and accept His gift of salvation.

Feeling your oats this fine day are we? You seem to assume anyone that does not share a faith in a higher being must not be think like every single other person on the planet. Seems rather judgmental to me and you know what the Bible says about that...

I don't see how I'm being judgmental. I'm wondering if athiests say there can't be a higher power because there is no proof then what about other"abstract" ideas? How is that anti Biblical?

I applogize if my post offends you, I don't see how it is derogatory, how would you rephrase it to be more sensitive?

The problem with religious folk is they assume their morals come from their beliefs. Study after study has shown that Atheists on the average are more likely to have a strong moral sense.

Far too often people that believe they belong to the “One True Faith” are actually more cruel to others they perceive as lessers because they belong to the wrong faith or even worse! No faith.

When you don’t believe in a God you believe your actions are just that yours. There is no justifying actions against another because God told you to.

And how is not believing in a faith make you incapable of thinking in the abstract? Again, everyone on the planet can do it, faith has nothing to do with it.

Can you answer the question I posed in the title?

Your question itself is flawed in its premise. Your belief in God is just as abstract as an Atheist’s belief there is no God. Neither can provide proof and therefore it is an abstract. The difference is I have heard, read, seen the ones that fall on the belief side be more condescending than any Atheist I have met.(yes there are some annoying ones, but they are very few. Just really loud about it)

According to the Bible, God have us free will. You should honor that gift and not judge those that exercise it. Or as i alluded to previously, judge not lest you be judged.

I think you believe I'm judging when I'm actually just wanting to discuss. That is flawed thinking to assume I'm being malicious in my posing an idea. Taking this post a little too personal.

It might be a blind spot for you, but Atheists have been belittled for years and your question comes across as almost an accusation.

It’s like if I asked being a man how do women know how to operate a car? I’m just curious. The question itself is offensive even if not meant to be because it assumes that there must be a difference.

It's a simple question, where's the accusation?

And Atheists belittled?
Most Atheists are converts, and like any convert, tend to be zealots, and like any zealot, tend to be on the attack quite a bit. Ok, A LOT. Which of course is a bit ironic because if they aren't believers in any diety, what do they care what others choose to believe or not?

Plus having encountered and accepted this 'ultimate truth' (sound familiar?), their arrogance is right up there with any other self righteous personally tailored ultimate truths wielded on a flag wavers.

This meme is meant to spark a discussion, not gathering the villagers for a house torching.

Your reply is nonsensical. Were is the proof that most are converts and therefore zealots? Plenty of studies show that Atheists are more welcoming than any other group. Your obvious hatred of that group (Who is torching any house?) shows your upbringing. Probably told everyday in your faith's house that Atheists are bad people. Wonder why?

I would like to see these studies, please share for our benefit. (I don't doubt your word but I've seen plenty of studies that also say Christians are more generous than non believers)

Google atheist morality study. There are many studies to be found there.

Please let's keep comments respectful. Remember some people here like to ruffle feathers so best course of action is ignore not escalate. Thanks.

You bother reading the exchange or is your obtuseness truly natural?

Don't like the repercussions? Don't ask for it, done.
- That goes for your idiocy also.

Now go tell him to beware of the incredible terror that is me and post another couple of memes about me so you can do some more of you Forrest Gump dance.

Of course it would be to you.

The proof is in your mirror.
Aaaaaaaaaaand in your answer.

I was raised by an atheist, ya silly doink, 'n if ya looked at my comment history, ya'd see my previous comments were to a Crystian who flat out stated I was one of "you guys"

Gosh, humans are such silly silly little monkees, looking for a different emblemed tee shirt to hurl their poo.

I really don't need anyone to defend me and if this is the way you do it by calling my friends doink, poo hurling monkeys and idiots then please keep your heroism to yourself. Boma and I were dissagreeing fine and our relationship as friends as far as I am concerned is still intact. Are you not even able to agree or disagree or defend someone without being condescending and talking to us like we're idiots incapable of thinking for ourselves? Mindless herd huh? SMH.

Here ya go, found your long lost twin:

imgflip.com/i/3dnqie?nerp=1571653794#com3677867

You two idiots should get together and have a makeout sess, which according to him is ok because that's what Cain did.

I love love love this site.

The comment is your own, unless you're referring to MemeDave who's a believer in God. I'm confused. Please let's keep comments respectful this is not the politics stream.

Facepalm

I'm not offended by the question. I think some radical feminists would be. But thats another can of worms. I remember you once telling a youth here on this stream that it doesn't matter what others think of you and you can be friends with those you don't agree with.

I can talk to anyone, but I was attacked personally and responded. When I replied before I took issue with Vagabond’s statement, not him.

Now my response to him calling me a name was to ask why the animosity, but in a rather condensed version.

He seems to specialize in putting his foot in his mouth, so I just ignore the bait and show him what civilized conversations are supposed to look like. You should know Vagabond better than I you've been here longer.

I’ve never conversed with V before this, so no frame of reference before hand.

Again there are those here that I have had drag out fights with when politics was on the front page that we would laugh at each other’s funny posts. I rarely take things personally online as I believe you can’t change someone’s mind by insulting them.

I was defending YOU.

R-E-A-D my comments, the ones to the ornery victim of you meanypants Christians who was calling YOU arrogant were to him, NOT you, hence why they weren't in your notifications.

Did you not notice his tone changing towards you after my comments?

Although just like I told him in regards to MemeDave, you're all a bunch of idiots that comment according to what club letter is on your tee shirt, not with actual thought.
THAT'S the problem with all your religions, including his. The message is totally bypassed in favor of mindless herding.

Ah, well 2 seconds looking at his profile will tell ya just where he's coming from. But be warned, no refund on those 2 seconds. ;)

I don't regard anyone as lesser than me or greater because of their beliefs. Have I indicated I do in anything I've said?

I know many good people who don't believe in God, many who do and many who aren't sure, as well as evil people in all those camps. I'm curious though what do atheists base their moral code on if they indeed (and I don't doubt they do) have a strong moral sense?

Thanks! I will check him out!

Well that's an interesting turn. Usually it's the other way around. I wonder if it was the usual "the Old Testament God is unlike the New Testament God, so how can it be the same God?" I'm intrigued now. I'll look him up and see what he has to say. :)

As an atheist, i can tell you are moral code.
Live, let live.Don’t impose ideals

Fair enough. How about something like gravity. A force that in itself can't be observed but you do observe its effects. Can something like that be applied to a diety?

Stand on a mountain top with a lightning rod and dare him to strike...after so many tries and strikes the statistics will form a conclusion :)

Honestly I dont know...I dont think you can "measure" God, and that's why He and faith go hand in hand. I can say that my personal relationship with Him has proven his existence to me, my testimony if you will. Numerous instances of experiences that I have no other explanation for other than God has shown His grace and plan to me. But, I understand why you wont accept it as scientific as my individual personal experience has little bearing on the grand scheme of things.

What exactly would be enough evidence for you to be convinced or at least consider the possibility of a Diety? Can you describe the straw that would break your back? (For lack of a better phrase :)

Given the circumstances surrounding the events, and the prayers spoken specifically about those things, I would say yes. Also, there were follow up events that provided affirmation, as though He were saying "not only am I still here, but I was there and always have been since this trial began for you". It's not just that I have no other explanation, I believe God was and is the explanation.

The specific events I speak of are surrounding the adoption of our daughter and the trials and victories we experienced up until and even after her adoption that in my mind are miraculous. One such event was wondering how in the world we would afford it, and the "bank made a mistake" card in Monopoly thing actually happened to us. We received a check for the exact amount we needed at exactly the right time it was needed. It was not expected. And sure, this can be attributed to coincidence but how often has anyone received a check for $2k out of the blue when that amount of money was needed? This was mere days after we had committed to adoption, trusting that God would provide for us as He had promised. This is one of many many "coincidences" that happened along the way, so many that yes I have no other explanation for all of it to have happened exactly when it did. In the scientific community, this is the equivalent of finding patterns to establish a cause or solution.

But, this is also a mysterious aspect of the personal relationship with God, the patterns apply only to my life and my family, they have little bearing on others. He reveals himself personally to us bit by bit, and everyone's story is a little bit different, but the common denominator is the same. Many of the testimonies I've heard have similar characteristics, still tailored to individuals but appealing to all who need that affirmation.

Does that help understand where I'm coming from? We may not agree but it is good to understand each other's view points if nothing else but the sake of conversation, that is what makes this stream so neat to me! Safe driving today wherever you're headed. Nasty and rainy here in SC this morning.

Say the first man saw the world around him and deciding to name the force or intelligent being that brought it all into existence because he knows (having invented the the tool used to hunt that wooly mammoth ;) that things don't just magically appear said "let's call this force God"

It would no longer be supernatural if it could be tested so I don't think you will ever find this evidence you're waiting for. Ever heard of faith? It's the complimentary virtue of hope and love. Those emotions, feelings, that drive actions and behaviors, the abtract nonphysical concept which I'm referring to in my meme and which you said (at least in the case of love and hate) do exist.

Love it! 😎👍

Honesty, morality, and responsible social animal GOoD behaviors are all invisible traits which you must have faith in or believe in.. to do.. and then trust in blind faith that others will reciprocate. And everybody does not do it. And the very lofty world we live in now which is above the struggle for survival does not bring out the truth of everyone's character so as to diffuse any denial about the id based animal behavior of man. The id does need to be controlled, governed, bridled, and kept behind the Skull island gates with religious ideas, laws, morals, and more to be a good person. Then even those ideas are not enough as prison populations and crime illustrate. We at times in personal growth need a rigid objective moral code and then depending on what our super ego makes of it.. to loosen up and take on subjective moral boundaries so as to be true to self and actually grow in virtue at all.

I do believe science is struggling to explain dark matter and dark energy, yet their influence on celestial motion is evident.