Vegans are assholes

You might think all humans can life on just fruits and vegetables. But that is not so. There are many people who are not eating dead animals by choice, for most people, who aren’t lazy bums it is a necessity.

I'm afraid there's no scientific evidence to support such an assertion.

To the contrary... “It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. ... A vegetarian [including vegan] diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. ... An evidence- based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals.”

Source - Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864/

Yeah, well they claimed that a diet high in starch for calories, but low in fat and cholesterol was healthy for decades. However, that was based on a fraudulent study to sell more grains and sugar. The end result was skyrocketing rates of diabetes, cancer and heart disease. Actual scientific research with modern technology has proven, cholesterol cannot be over consumed, and fat is not harmful. To the contrary, the traditional food pyramid is what causes most medical problems. To say human beings can be vegan is silly. Yes, many might survive, but all science points to the fact that human beings are not herbivores. I know many people who follow absurd restrictive diets. They are all perpetually injuring themselves while claiming to be curing conditions that they self diagnosed. Self diagnosis is a tremendous threat to human health in America. There is zero reason to be vegan. I am absolutely, positively certain that I could die on a vegan diet.

You can find outlier and debunked studies to support almost any crazy diet, but the overwhelming body of scientific evidence, spanning thousands of studies over decades, is that vegan diets are healthiest.

Still, you have failed to substantiate your position that some people need meat, or that a vegan diet is unhealthy for some people. Where's the evidence to support that assertion?

You are just making things up. I’m not going to pull every website that says it, but it’s all over cnn.com. Most of what we hear is marketing material. Lies. If you want a lifestyle, there will be unlimited BS studies to support it. Just like medical marijuana. Marijuana will never be FDA approved, because it has been clearly proven to cause nearly everything the new fake studies claim it cures. Vegan diets are not the healthiest. The “Mediterranean” diet is by far the best diet for human beings. So to support my position google “the Mediterranean diet.”

If you honestly believe Vega is mid healthy, you are only basing it on one thing and only one thing. Blood lipid levels. However, the new guidelines for blood lipids prove that cholesterol levels have almost no correlation to cardiovascular disease and overall health.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/study-says-theres-no-link-between-cholesterol-and-heart-disease/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/06/12/high-cholesterol-does-not-cause-heart-disease-new-research-finds/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/25/health/saturated-fat-arteries-study/index.html

If you are defining “healthy” as having low cholesterol, you don’t know what health is.

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2015/cholesterol-myths.html

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/majority-of-hospitalized-heart-75668

Here’s another one. All I can say is I eat butter, whole milk, cheese, meat, vegetables and fruits and very little artificial anything. I have never had any health problems, I’ve only had one cavity in the last 30 years, I’ve never had an abnormal blood sugar level in the last 23 years I was regularly tested, and my testosterone level is better than most people half my age. In fact, by eating no fat and cholesterol and tons of vegetables for several months, my cholesterol will only change 25 points, total. That plus my very low density LDL (which is the tru bad cholesterol) is practically non existent. And the biggest problem I’ve ever had in life is too many people think I am waaay too young, when I’m usually one of the oldest people in the room. I have over 20 years of tests to prove it. And I’ve only gotten sick maybe 5 times since I was a teenager.

You asserted that some people "need" meat, and this is now the 3rd time I'm asking you: Where's the scientific data that substantiates that claim?

You're citing headlines. You're not even citing peer-reviewed studies, to support your claims that fat is healthy. Tell me... How many "essential fatty acids" are there in the human diet? What are they? Are they made by plants or animals?

>> If you are defining “healthy” as having low cholesterol, you don’t know what health is. <<

That's one measure of health. How about HbA1c? How about BMI? How about waist to height ratio? How about how long it takes to run a mile? How about triglycerides? How about C-reactive proteins? How about fasting blood sugar? I could go on, but none of these tests in isolation is a measure of overall health. Together, they tell a story.

If you want to cherry-pick headlines that misinterpret flawed studies and pretend that it "proves" cholesterol isn't bad, it's only your own health that you're flushing down the toilet.

>> I have never had any health problems, I’ve only had one cavity in the last 30 years, I’ve never had an abnormal blood sugar level in the last 23 years I was regularly tested, and my testosterone level is better than most people half my age. <<

Tell me, what's your HbA1c level?

Look up the published research, and you'll find that vegetarian men have higher testosterone levels than meat-eaters; vegan men have higher higher testosterone levels than vegetarians.

>> In fact, by eating no fat and cholesterol and tons of vegetables for several months, my cholesterol will only change 25 points, total. <<

And depending on what numbers your talking about, a 25 point drop could very significantly lower your risk for heart-attack and stroke.

>> That plus my very low density LDL (which is the tru bad cholesterol) is practically non existent. <<

Numbers...?

You may be genetically lucky, but overall cholesterol is still an accurate predictor of risk for heart-attack and stroke.

Anyway, I've been vegan for 20 years. I've got the best blood-work that my GP has seen in his career. My functional tests would make most high-school athletes jealous.

The problem with non-vegans who are "in perfect health" is that, starting around age 40, they start dropping dead "out of nowhere".

Peer-reviewed published studies cited throughout...

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/arteries-of-vegans-vs-runners/

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-reduce-the-risk-of-sudden-death/

I can’t respond to this because the articles I posted ARE ABOUT PEER REVIEWED STUDIES. My A1C is always between 5.3 and 5.6 (it has to be because I’ve never had abnormal blood sugar). My cholesterol was 247 with a max unrestricted level of 255, it has never gone over 255 no matter what I eat. My VLDL was, I think, 13 last time I was tested. BP 109/75. Triglycerides 82.

What you are saying is based entirely on incorrect studies. These were studied based on the incorrect food pyramid, which will be phased out soon. It is also based on pharmaceutical company studies designed to put people on statins, which have already been phased out. And what’s left is being phased out as of 2018.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/health/statins-guidelines-conflict-study/index.html

You need B vitamins which you won’t get as a vegan.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/440879-can-humans-live-without-eating-meat/

Everything you have posted is not based on eating meat vs Vega is—it is based on people who do not properly care for themselves with exercise. Lack of exercise is the cause of 40 year olds dropping dead. Things like diabetes are caused by muscle metabolism failure—because insulin metabolizes sugar within the muscles. Without meat, the insulin metabolism is incomplete—because the actual purpose of insulin is to use sugar as energy TO METABOLIZE PROTEIN.

Meanwhile, a vegan can never have higher testosterone than someone that eats meat, because the only way humans make testosterone is from cholesterol.

>> I can’t respond to this because the articles I posted ARE ABOUT PEER REVIEWED STUDIES. <<

Yeah, you posted links "about" peer reviewed studies, from sources such as Telegraph and CNN. This is where bogus claims from flawed studies often get headlines, partly because they're sensational and partly because it makes their advertisers (eg dairy and meat) happy.

>> My A1C is always between 5.3 and 5.6 (it has to be because I’ve never had abnormal blood sugar). <<

Are you talking about HbA1c measured as a "percent"? Or measured as mmol/L?

In either case, I eat fruit by the case. I eat high-carb low-fat, mostly whole-foods, 100% vegan. My HbA1c is 25mmol/mol, which translates to about 4.45%, or 4.5mmol/mol. I win.

>> My cholesterol was 247 with a max unrestricted level of 255, it has never gone over 255 no matter what I eat. <<

You're a heart-attack waiting to happen. My total cholesterol varies between 112 and 124.

Keep in mind that "normal" cholesterol means you have about a 30% chance of dying from a heart attack.

>> Everything you have posted is not based on eating meat vs Vega is—it is based on people who do not properly care for themselves with exercise. Lack of exercise is the cause of 40 year olds dropping dead. <<

Then why is it common for top-level athletes to start dropping dead from heart attacks by age 40?

Check out the studies referenced here - https://nutritionfacts.org/video/arteries-of-vegans-vs-runners/

>> Meanwhile, a vegan can never have higher testosterone than someone that eats meat, because the only way humans make testosterone is from cholesterol. <<

Here are some actual peer-reviewed published studies - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vegans+testosterone

3/4 of them measured testosterone levels in blood, and none of them found lower testosterone levels in vegans compared to meat eaters.

Meat eaters do have higher levels of ?-oestrogens than vegans, because non-vegans consume ?-oestrogens from animal products. Vegans often have higher levels of ?-oestrogens, but that's a good thing, and in the studies that distinguish ?-oestrogen from ?-oestrogen, it's very well proven than ?-oestrogens are healthy, in part because they inhibit cancers. The "soy is bad" narrative relies on FAILING to distinguish ?-oestrogens from ?-oestrogens.

Of course you could be a vegan and not eat soy, as some vegans do, but when was the last time you met a vegan guy who grew man-boobs?

This video is a joke. Endurance runners are less healthy than most sedentary people. These scam reports are looking at one factor like BMI to define health. It doesn’t. BMI is a scam. It takes nothing into consideration but weight, when body fat level is a better measure of health.

I'd agree that BMI can be misleading in isolation, but taken in context with other measures, it's still useful.

Look at arterial health - https://nutritionfacts.org/video/optimal-cholesterol-level/

Sudden cardiac death is a joke. Because unless you give the age where the person dies, which is over 60, the video is false. Because it presents it as if it happens early in life, when it does not, even among fat lazy slobs that are grossly obese. If they were all dying so young, they’d never have the time to get that fat in the first place. And the #1 cause of cardiac disease us muscle loss and insulin receptor loss (type 2 diabetes). Without muscle insulin dysfunction heart disease risk is close to zero.

You sound like one of those nutters who thinks cancer is a fungus...

How often do you meet grossly obese people over 60? Not too often... Because most of them die before then. It's common to meet alcoholics in their 70s, it's common to meet smokers in their 70s, but it's exceedingly rare to meet obese people in their 70s. Why is that?

For the 4th time... You asserted that some people "need" meat. Where's the scientific data that substantiates that claim?

You keep throwing out more and more nonsense, while ignoring facts. When challenged on any particular nonsense, it's nothing but crickets or different nonsense.

B vitamins. Amino acids. Protein. Cholesterol (building blocks of all hormones).

Realistically, all of the health benefits of veganism are equaled by a proper Atkins/Keto Diet. All of the benefits of veganism are equaled by all proper diets. Because selecting foods for specific nutrients ALWAYS WORKS. But long term, there aren’t enough vegans for the handful who lived long to be clinically significant. Once you factor in clinical significance on a mathematical level—no true benefits of veganism are proven.

>> B vitamins. Amino acids. Protein. Cholesterol (building blocks of all hormones). <<

Most vegan sources of B-vitamins are listed here. Vegans tend to not be deficient in any of them, even without supplements. They're ABUNDANT in vegan foods.

B Vitamins: How to Get Them in a Vegan Diet
https://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/b-vitamins-how-to-get-them-in-a-vegan-diet/

B12 needs supplementation on a vegan diet, but it also needs supplementation in most non-vegan diets. B12 is not made by plants, but it's also not made by animals. The ONLY natural source of B12 in the known universe are bacteria (and archaea) in soil and faeces. Since we live in a world where soap and toilet-paper are common, most people don't get enough B12 "the natural way". Even when you eat animal products, most of the B12 you're getting was given to the animals as feed-supplement or injection, and it came from the same factory as my vegan B12 pills.

>> Amino acids. <<

You're joking? Or stupid? There are 9 essential amino acids in the human diet, and they are all available IN ABUNDANCE from vegan foods.

Vegans get more than enough amino acids - https://nutritionfacts.org/video/do-vegetarians-get-enough-protein/

>> Protein. <<

To answer my previous question, it seems that you're stupid. "Protein" is used in nutrition interchangeably with "amino acids". Same thing. See above.

>> Cholesterol (building blocks of all hormones). <<

Cholesterol is a hormone, not an essential nutrient. Human bodies make cholesterol in abundance. Human bodies do such a good job of making and recycling cholesterol, that dietary saturated fats and dietary cholesterol lead to conditions of excess cholesterol, which is the single most important factor in most heart disease and arterial disease. When arteries and hearts get clogged, it's CHOLESTEROL that they're clogged with, not brown rice and broccoli.

And while cholesterol is a building block for steroid hormones, no, it's not a building block of all hormones.

So... Aside from B12, which up to 39% of non-vegans are low or deficient in, you have NOT cited any essential nutrients that vegans can't get on a vegan diet.

B12 Deficiency May Be More Widespread Than Thought
https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2000/b12-deficiency-may-be-more-widespread-than-thought/

You also have NOT cited any reasons why any human "needs" to consume animal products.

Vegans are skinny and weak?? Only if they don't work out.

Have you even met any vegans in real life??

The 5 Strongest Vegans On Earth
https://barbend.com/strongest-vegans-on-earth/

More and more pro-athletes are going vegan because it helps them build more muscle faster.

These athletes went vegan — and stayed strong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/these-athletes-went-vegan--and-stayed-strong/2016/11/22/58c2e674-865c-11e6-92c2-14b64f3d453f_story.html

10 Male Athletes You Didn’t Know Were Vegan
https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/10-male-athletes-you-didnt-know-were-vegan.html/

10 Famous Vegan Athletes
https://www.veganbandit.net/10-famous-vegan-athletes/

>> Realistically, all of the health benefits of veganism are equaled by a proper Atkins/Keto Diet. All of the benefits of veganism are equaled by all proper diets. Because selecting foods for specific nutrients ALWAYS WORKS. But long term, there aren’t enough vegans for the handful who lived long to be clinically significant. Once you factor in clinical significance on a mathematical level—no true benefits of veganism are proven. <<

Wrong again... Keto diets can be useful for short periods, but more and more evidence is proving that prolonged "keto diets" are incredibly unhealthy and damaging to the human body. The safe way to do keto is fasting, or a "no carb" diet, via intermittent fasting or periodic fasting, and ideally eating high-carb low-fat vegan foods between fasts.

Among the first signs of ill health on a keto diet are elevated CRP levels, a sign of inflammation. Elevated creatanine is also a common early-warning sign.

Long term... The 2nd longest living population ever studied by modern science was the traditional Okinawans. Their diet was about 98% vegan, and they did not rely on modern medicine. Their longevity has only been surpassed by vegans in the Adventist Studies, who live on average ten years longer than average Americans, and do so without chronic disease.

Among proven benefits of low-fat high-carb whole-food vegan diets... It's clinically proven to reverse heart disease. No other diets come close to that. Look into the published studies of Dr Caldwell Esselstyn. Vegan diets also lead to reduced incidence of diabetes, stroke, several types of cancers, etc. Low-fat high-carb whole-food vegan diets can reduce the needs for insulin in type-1 diabetics, and reverse type-2 diabetes.

Uprooting the Leading Causes of Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ