Liberal Logic

No thanks

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/32-trillion-price-tag-sanders-medicare-program-koch/story?id=56938226

You know, a trillion here, a trillion there ... pretty soon you're talking serious money.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/07/31/liberals-respond-to-medicare-for-alls-astonishing-price-tag-byattacking-the-koch-brothers-n2505163

You just replied with an opinion piece. I hope that someday you figure out what actual journalism looks like, but I'm not holding my breath.

No, I don't ... why would you ask such a stupid question?

And you'll key in on just *one* of those and call me an idiot despite my PhD, MBA, and ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a Bachelors in Journalism.

I left off The Economist, Zero Hedge, CNBC, Fox Business, AP, and Reuters. I also occasionally read Der Spiegel, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, Time, The Chicago Tribune, and for a laugh, The Hill.

Do I read them all every day? Nope. I actually have a life, wife, three kids, two grandkids, and 591 sales reps that report to me each week as well as 9 regional managers, and 28 district sales managers.

So don't come up from your mama's basement and tell me I don't know what journalism is. You and 99% of the yahoos on this site don't have a clue how the world works on any type of international stage but get spoon fed your "news" from Facebook, YouTube conspiracy videos, Instagram, and Snap Chat stories.

Yet you couldn't use a single one of those to refute my point and instead chose a clownhall opinion piece. Might want to head back for another degree, my friend, it seems you missed a few things

"According to the Mercatus model, total health spending would actually come in about $303 billion lower in 2031 than under current projections, with $7.35 trillion going to healthcare that year versus $7.65 trillion expected now. Total national health spending would be $2 trillion lower from 2022 to 2031 under the plan, the report found."
https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-plan-cost-save-money-2018-7

Ignore that Grind guy, he's incapable of any reasonable conversation

You're the guy that reported me for saying that you bark like a dog after you started quoting propaganda at me.

Instead of attacking my credibility or having me silenced all together, why don't you provide evidence to the contrary of my claim? I'd enjoy smashing your ignorance again.

I'm flattered to know you recognized me.

If you don't recall, you're the one who wouldn't give me credible sources and couldn't do anything except call me names when I presented my case reasonably. Perhaps it wasn't the best judgement to report you, but I'm not at all sorry for it. I'm standing by everything I did, and if you want to look at evidence contrary to your claim, you can go ahead and look at what I said. If you haven't got the capability to be civil, then we've already established that I won that argument.

Also, I don't intend to silence you, I didn't and wouldn't flag your other comments. But I will call you out for any bullshit, if necessary.

Getting me to ignore you because you reported me doesn't mean you "won". But, since you want it, Congratulations you are more brainwashed by propaganda than I am!

Also, don't think I didn't see you acting all tough once I separated myself from the conversation. Very big of you.

Back to the topic at hand:
The people that own most of our debt also own stakes in the companies that provide healthcare. There is no such thing as free healthcare. Obamacare made those companies billions of dollars by extorting Americans. Don't buy a plan? Pay a fine or go to jail. That's mobster shit.

Healthcare is just being used as a tool to siphon more money from Americans into the European banks that own our debt. Democrats are happy to sell our country to them for a few hundred million dollars in their own pockets. Trump is against this and shut them down the moment he took office by pulling the US out of the TPP.

Support of universal healthcare is the same as supporting the destruction of US liberty. What's left of it anyway.

I know you're deliberately leaving out the full process. The only ones who truly profit are the banks that own our debt and print our money. There's a reason a Double cheeseburger costs twice as much as it did when I was in high school.

Buddy, that's because of a little thing called inflation, not the TPP.

Where does inflation come from? Keep digging.

The TPP would have increased the rate of inflation.

Inflation is caused by printing more money until each unit is worth less, thanks to the sheer amount of currency being circulated. How would the TPP have caused the US to print more money?

Very good! Who prints the money? Why?

To answer your question, the US treasury prints money so that people have, ya know, money. What does that have to do with the TPP?

You've seen the video which dumbs down the process so now you know why the mint prints money. Who will profit from the TPP?

Bonds... hahaha. You're too funny. Sad thing is people reading your comment are nodding their heads saying "Bonds good!"

1 dimensional thinkers.

Russian* comrades

I added the 2nd word later and.....

Buying gold instead of a weakening currency. Smart move. Once we get the debt off our backs the US should do the same.

Make that a medium rare!

I'm touched! You're saving your trolling for me!

"Grind
Buying gold instead of a weakening currency. Smart move. Once we get the debt off our backs the US should do the same."

For real, how old are you? It's like you were literally born yesterday.

The graph below is adjusted for inflation obviously. Note that 1981 is to this day the peak of gold value.

With the coming crash to be caused by Trump's economic policies, there will be a run on gold. But as usual, there will be a dip. Not always a pretty bag to be holding.

once we are out from under the banks the US will need something real to base its currency on. Gold is a good investment, but certainly not the only one.

Risky living is better than slavery

8 sukamadik notifications in a row. Not bad, but someone just cut off your streak :)

It's in my interest to see the dnc and their masters fail. I don't want the US to be a socialist country. I want the US to remove itself from its debt and its ties to its debtors.

The most socialist thing I've lived through, Obamacare, had a direct effect on my life. That motherf**ker gave me homework! That asshole took money out of my pocket! Never again!

People don't "own" debt. That's not really possible.

Obamacare's original draft was basically this: you paid taxes, the government gave you healthcare. You like your plan already, keep it. It also attempted to force companies to LOWER costs for healthcare. That's gross simplification, but yeah.

These were changed because Democrats in Congress were struggling to get Republicans to vote for the bill.

Also, I don't know where your getting anything about European banks from. Please, give me one source that says exactly what your saying (not word for word, I should clarify).

Also, I still don't understand what the TPP has to do with any of this.

Finally, supporting universal health care isn't ruining US liberty, it's providing citizens with a way of paying for a doctor or hospital visit (dentist too, sometimes, I suppose) so that if they get hurt or sick, they don't have to drain their money into hospitals or be forced to figure it out themselves.

I'll play nice since you're clearly unaware of what's really going on. I'm used to arguing with socialists or Russian bots that actually know what's going on. I initially assumed you were one of a particular trolls alts because you popped up at a time coinciding to his shuffling of alts.

I'll give you a link to a cartoon that does a great job of getting your foot in the door of the real political game. Know that the "villain" of the cartoon is actually made up of several families that together own most everything in the western world by way of debt or massive shareholding through satellite companies. Some families have been around for several hundred years.

It's a start, but you're going to have to do the research yourself. Finding out what those families own gives you the real politics. They have massive stakes in the healthcare industry, particularly insurance companies. The TPP was put in place to globalize banking and healthcare. Global domination through banking and healthcare. If the world owes you money, you own the world.

Everything in politics is about the money. Learn the players.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM

... wow... thay was... interesting...

So is that cartoon literally your only source for everything you've been saying? I have no reason to believe any of what it said.

That's rhe stupidest shit I've seen in a while. I'm sorry, but everything that that cartoon said is unfoinded and has no proof.

Don't get so defensive and dismissive. Start doing some research. Like I said, it's just a start. It's not my only source, it's just a good entry for beginners.

Now you know the Federal reserve is not owned by the government. Now you know that the mint is designed to print money for the banks to lend and collect interest on. You should already know every false dollar printed lowers the value of the currency.

The TPP was designed to give the same people that own the Federal Reserve a greater reach and a tighter grip.

Since that was too basic for you try this instead. I doubt it would make even the slightest bit of sense if you hadn't realized the Fed is privatized.
http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

The next step after looking at that link I posted in the other yellow reply is looking up what each one of those names mentioned owns. It's going to get harder now.

Here's a picture of the Feds owners. Have fun following this trail. Look up who owns each of these. Time for scrubs to throw in the towel.

I apologize.

You're going to have to give me a few days to read through all of the source material.

Don't stop with what I've provided. Now that you're aware you can start finding the answers to your own questions. Here's a fun one:

Who owns each of the media outlets? Who owns the owners and so on? That's when you start to see just how crazy this gets.

ABC was kind enough to show that it's a shareholder in the Federal Reserve without any deception or satelliting. They're the first ones on the list. Now you know why they hate Trump. He cost them and their masters a lot of money.

What exactly is this supposed to prove? You've filled in a LOT of your own details into this chart and the fact that some of the people from the list you provided are on the chart as well. It seems like you're jumping to a lot of conclusions. If I'm missing something, could you explain what exactly is going on that I'm supposdd to worry about.

"Several families own the majority of all the important banks in the western world, including the Federal Reserve. They pull the strings of many high ranking political figures and are using people like Hillary Clinton to push an agenda that will put our country into an unpayable debt, essentially enslaving us (like those stories of indentured servitude you used to hear). Furthermore they are pushing a "world domination" plan through agreements like the TPP that will extend their influence and tighten their grip on the wallets of everyone involved. By dragging down the US they seek to build up other nations so they can exploit them as they have done in Europe and the US bringing in even more wealth to themselves." - I left this for someone else.

Every year the value of the US dollar goes down. This has happened as a direct result of the bankers using the US as a tool to generate wealth for themselves. They are unconcerned with the wellbeing of our country. They are letting the US fail so they can build up developing countries and begin collecting debt from the new wealth that will be generated.

The future of the US's financial independence is the single most important issue of the US. Its more important than the environment, civil rights, and immigration. The US is in a crisis and at a crossroads. We are living in the era that will decide the future of our country. Will the US become an indentured servant or will it regain its independence?

The only way to regain our independence is to elect leaders that will resist the will of the banks and shoot down deals like the TPP that will strengthen them.

Wow from +7trillion to +7trillion? Amazing! Such progress! So much savings.

Who profits from this? The same people that own most of the US debt. Healthcare isn't about helping people. It's about global domination through debt.

If the socialist Dems have their way with our government we will no longer be a free nation. We are fast becoming the enforcers of our European bankrolling overlords.

Actually, the ones that own the highest US debt is the US Citizen: 58% of the US Debt is owned by the American people, through Bonds and retirement plans.

Maybe I should have used a dash instead of a comma, because that's what I meant in the first sentence - Americans.

You should have posted that for Grind, although he'd deny it anyways or the other charts. As you saw, there's a ton all reflecting the same data.

The China myth is based on them as the foreign country that has bought more Treasury Bills than any other foreign country, not that they own the most nor has the US borrowed from their banks per se. They're not lending, they're investing in the future of the US$.

Any graph like that one is a manipulation. Do they tell you that most of that "American debt" is owed to people like the Morgans (as in J.P. Morgan) who pay allegiance to their European masters? The graph is a lie.

Disprove it.

Cute. You know that's a truckload of work. I'd have to play the six degrees of Kevin bacon but with the Rothschilds and such. I'm not doing that for you. I'm providing enough information. Let those that want to cast off their own ignorance do it for themselves.

Our esteemed Grind replied to your chart in the manner as expected.

Oh no dude... that is a very manipulative graphic. Dig a little deeper. Find the individuals who own the banks and companies that own the debts. Chances are that graphic was produced by one of those companies.

Ha! I was right! Federal reserve! That's a scary one. Dig dig dig!

The fed is listed there, AFTER social security and US individuals and institutions. The first part are those that invest in government bonds. Institutions are usually investment firms that operate various funds. It would be unusual if they didn't have government bonds in their clients portfolios. The Fed. That one was shoved down our throat, and, had Taft conceded to the populace and let TR run on the GOP ticket, it likely never would have come to fruition, as the Democrats heartily supported the bill. By those rules, financial planners play the game while some just game the system. Why do people run for Congress? It's legal for members of Congress to do insider trading.

When somebody tells me to start digging, that means that they're talking out of their ass, just repeating something their favorite talk radio actor has spouted. Call me an idiot, but to make your point, you will need to explain, not just to me, but to everyone that reads this thread, exactly what you mean. I'm sure one of your associate can find that information and translate it to English.

I meant the federal reserve produced that graphic. I'm saying it's essentially a lie. It's an interpretation of data that promotes a certain agenda.

Scroll down a bit and see what I've been saying to Fernando. I guess if you want me to flat out say it I could put it this way:

Several families own the majority of all the important banks in the western world, including the Federal Reserve. They pull the strings of many high ranking political figures and are using people like Hillary Clinton to push an agenda that will put our country into an unpayable debt, essentially enslaving us (like those stories of indentured servitude you used to hear). Furthermore they are pushing a "world domination" plan through agreements like the TPP that will extend their influence and tighten their grip on the wallets of everyone involved. By dragging down the US they seek to build up other nations so they can exploit them as they have done in Europe and the US bringing in even more wealth to themselves.

We need to elect presidents that resist the will of our debtors and fight for the US's financial independence. They must be against agreements like the TPP and the TISA.

So, you're looking at it as an Illuminati situation. You have proof of this?

No, I don't have anything I can throw down in front of you and say 'Bam there it is'. I have pieces to the puzzle and the questions you need to ask yourself that will lead you to your own conclusions.

Below I conversed with Fernando about the same topic. If you follow that conversation and links you'll be caught up at least as far as him.

Step one: who owns the Federal Reserve?