College Liberal

I've found this one helpful too (to take away the rationale people try to use that "it's the woman's body"). It's different DNA, so it's a different body.

pro life post that isnt downvoted?

thats a good thing because im pro life too

One million upvotes from me.

Loves to control other people's bodies and forces their beliefs on them. What would you say if I forced you to become a vegetarian by law, because eating meat is killing?

I definitely appreciate the point that nobody likes their choices controlled. But I can't fathom why murdering a child is considered one of the acceptable choices people can make. Would you let a murderer or a rapist go if they said, Well it's my choice and you can't impose your values on me?

We all agree that some things should be imposed. The hard part is getting everybody to agree where that line is. I believe it's wrong for a mother to kill her own child.

comparing a murder or rapist to a woman who may simply not be able to care for a child is wrong. And then define murder? Murder is the act of killing someone, do we label soldiers as murderers? No, because its not as simple as labels like "I believe a mother killing her child is murder".

I think you're right, that issues are not as simple as being solved by slogans. I believe that when someone kills a child in its mother's womb, that it's murder, because I believe that child is a human being, and hasn't wronged the person killing it.

But the main thing I was trying to get at was to get you to think about the issue of controlling other people's bodies, and forcing beliefs on them. All sides believe there are some values that should be imposed and enforced (that's why I brought up the point about murderers and rapists - not to say they are the same crime, but just to illustrate there are some issues where you don't allow people complete free choice to do anything they want to.) The issue is where to draw that line. You and I seem to draw that line in different places on this issue.

I would guess the biggest distinction here is that you believe a fetus is a person. And when does this fetus become a person? At the moment of conception, when it is just a zygote at this point? At the moment its cells organize into functions like the heart beating, even though it is still just a group of cells called an embryo in a blob like state? When there is brain function and it becomes a fetus? At week 15 when it can begin to hear, move and become self aware?
My point is, we kill people all the time that are in a vegetative state, and thats perfectly acceptable. No brain function = not a person. You can legally starve and dehydrate someone to death in a slow dying way because they are brain dead. Why would it be then that someone would not be allowed to terminate a fetus that is less than 16 weeks old? To me it, is not a person until it becomes self aware. So while I am AGAINST late term abortions unless there is a medical need, I see no issue with anything before that and I dont understand why others do. Up until the 15th week I should be allowed to do whatever I want with my body without someone else forcing me otherwise.

Thanks for explaining your view. My view is that the fetus should be counted as a person from conception.

And thats perfectly fine to think or believe that. Just dont force that view on to me by making abortion more difficult to obtain or illegal.

Why are you behaving as if you think it's okay for you to force your views onto me about what laws I can campaign for? Let's have no more hypocritical nonsense please.

Laws affect everyone, not just those who believe in them. If you want to campaign for your moral belief, I applaud you. But, if you want to make a law that forces other people to do or not do something without a choice because you believe in life at conception (which is 99% a religious belief), then you are forcing that onto someone else. I am not forcing you to have an abortion, or campainging for laws to force people to have abortions. Thats not hypocritical at all. I dont understand why this is so hard to get. You dont want it, thats fine, dont do it. You dont want others to "choose" it, then by all means campaign away. I dont tell you not to protest at abortion clinics or put up ads. But when you try to make a law to take MY choice away, thats completely different, and no different from me making a law to force you to have one.Its that plain and simple.

For some reason, you think it's your choice whether or not to take the life away of someone when you don't know whether that someone is a person or not.

It isn't a legitimate choice. Stop forcing your choices onto unborn babies (by killing them) and you and I won't have a problem.

Until then, time for you to stop pretending you have the high ground about "not forcing your choice onto people." You don't have it.

And this is why this will never go anywhere. If you or a loved one becomes a vegitiative state, with no brain function at all, are you going to pay for their medical care and personally take care of them for the rest of their life, and if you pass before they do, have someone to pick it up in your stead? Because otherwise you are forcing your choice onto someone else by killing them. AND I dont hear anyone complaining about that.
If you go against science and claim that a blob of cells smaller than the size of a pin drop called a ZYGOTE not a BABY, is a person, then there is no reasoning with someone who cant base their logic on anything logical.

You don't need to be religious to be pro-life. I am pro-life but not because it's "written in the Bible".

True, but most pro choicers are probably godless. I don't think it's exclusively Christians who are pro life. I'm sure there are plenty of people from other religions who are appalled by abortion.

The only thing you need to be opposed to abortion is some kind of moral decency.