American flag

That was before the war over slavery so yea after the war no president owned slaves

When people talk about Thomas Jefferson or any other President who owned slaves, do they differentiate the flag that was being used at the time they served? Is owning slaves the only racist thing that was perpetrated against people in this country by this government? And again, the point is that flags are symbolic, racism is instituted by the state. They have misled the people by substituting a symbol for the institutional policies perpetrated by the government. And you're trying to defend it. Subterfuge works!

Dude I dont know what you said Im not defending I just said before the war presidents owned slaves but ok

The FFs did try to abolish slavery, You should see Thomas Jefferson's rough copy of the Decoration of independence and article 1 of the first Continental congress

Dude i dont know what ur milking bout

It seems you've missed the point. The point is that flags are symbolic, racism is institutional. Flags aren't racist, people and institutions are. You've been hoodwinked. They're removing flags but leaving racism completely intact. The Supreme Court eviscerated the Voting Rights Act and you can't buy a Confederate flag on Amazon. Yeah… that makes sense.

You're making assumptions that are not warranted by my statements. I have not been hoodwinked in the slightest. I could care less who flies the flag or where. The flags are symbolic. I'm only pointing out what they symbolize. That's it. All I said was nobody's banning flags, a factual statement. And from this you extrapolate all sorts of bullshit about what I think and what I prioritize. Don't kid yourself. There's a reason that approach is called a "strawman" argument.

EHHHHH! WRONG AGAIN! eBay and Amazon HAVE in fact banned Confederate flag merchandise. Go try to buy something right now. That's what I thought. You CAN'T. You know why? Because it's BANNED. And you don't even know how amazon and eBay work, so you really have no business making a statement when you have no clue what you're talking about. The only thing that is bullshit is your entire argument, because it's based on a lie. The "straw man" in all of this is the Confederate flag. Because nobody cared about it until someone made it the focus instead of what they were really railing against. Idiot. That's how a "straw man" argument works. People like you know just enough to argue nonsensically while using elements of speech completely out of context and mangling the truth because you have no fundamental understanding of what you're talking about. You need to start with the basics and work your way up to debating nuanced subjects so you don't end up looking like a child trying to sit at the adults table.

I can't buy the confederate flag THERE because they're not allowing THEIR resources to be used to sell the flag, which is their FIRST AMENDMENT right. You can still buy it in many places, because it's NOT BANNED. No one is banning the flag. Some businesses have decided they don't want to participate in its sale. THAT'S NOT A BAN.

Wanna talk about looking like a child? Crying about BANS when, in truth, businesses are making decisions that are within their First Amendment rights -- THAT's childish.

hahahahaha! Prohibiting the sale is a de-facto ban. You can use all the semantics you want but it doesn't change the fact. Obfuscation of the truth doesn't diminish the truth, only your understanding of the truth. The first amendment relates to speech not commerce. Your understanding of the way things work is infantile. Go sit at the children's table.

Nobody is PROHIBITING the sale, nitwit. This is really simple. You seem incapable of distinguishing between a ban, which is assigned and enforced by the government, and a business decision not to participate in particular types of commerce. Any business is free to determine what it will and will not sell (or in the case of a marketplace, what that marketplace will or will not facilitate). That is a free business decision in a free market.

The item is not banned unless government says it may not be sold. That's not happening. YOU want to tell businesses what they must sell. That's fascism. No one is banning the Confederate flag. Some businesses are choosing not to engage in its commerce, which is their first amendment right. You can CALL it a ban all you'd like, but the fact remains the flag is legal to make, sell, buy, own, display, wear and fly. There is no f**king ban, no matter how many times you try to make the private business decisions of eBay and Amazon into bans. They're just not bans.

You're right. Obfuscation of the truth does not diminish the truth. That's why you should stop obfuscating the truth by trying to turn private decisions into "bans." Their actions are protected by the first amendment. They are not bans, anymore than Burger King has a ban on Big Macs. They just don't sell them. If you want it, you have to get it somewhere ELSE. Can you? YES. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT F**KING BANNED!

Please feel free to search the text and point out any wikipedia overlap. I'll be waiting right here with this here confederate flag and this blowtorch.

EHHHHH! WRONG AGAIN! Hahahahahahaha! You can keep trying though. But I'm getting bored.

You can't buy it there because it's BANNED.

Yeah...just had this same debate with stonegruve, and we agree. I'm from AZ, and we have these racist pieces of s**t waving Old Glory down here, threatening to shoot Mexicans, while "patrolling" our Border. Embarrassing, to say the (very) least.

Here, since you went digging for what 'you' wanted to see..

https://www.google.com/search?q=kkk+flying+confederate+flag&espv=2&biw=1561&bih=833&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI7ozVy6PexgIVi6WICh2tMgiU

Wasn't this after the civil war?

But nobody's banning flags.

Did South Carolina just remove the Confederate flag from State property? Can you buy anything on Amazon or eBay with a Confederate flag on it? Did TV Land just take Dukes of Hazzard of the air? That sounds like a ban to me.

That's because you're illiterate. None of that constitutes a ban. Can you still buy the flag from someone who is selling it? If you fly it in your front yard, will you be arrested? Fined? Souds like NOT A BAN to me.

Do you even know what illiterate means? You're using it wrong, which probably means that you're illiterate. Being arrested for doing something means it's ILLEGAL. Prohibiting you from obtaining it constitutes a BAN. Prohibiting it on State property constitutes a de-facto BAN.

Prohibiting it on state property is NOT a ban. Good lord, do you English? No one is banning the flag. They're moving it to a museum, where it belongs. If you bring a flag onto state grounds, no one is going to do jack shit to you, because it is not banned. Go ahead. Try it. No one will do anything to you. Because it's NOT BANNED, dude.

But you're not prohibited from obtaining it. Illiterate.

If you can't buy it, you're prohibited from obtaining it. Just like when the government can't keep you from buying guns and ammunition, they buy up 2 billion bullets and create an ammo shortage, and then they initiate executive at ions that make it more difficult to obtain and shut certain people out altogether (They are trying to shut out veterans by the way) It's called "de facto" because it achieves the same goal. Once again, go back to the children's table. You may not be illiterate, because I guess you can read, but your level of comprehension is rather suspect and your level of understanding of fundamental concepts is sadly naive and facile, rudimentary. Perhaps it's the aluminum and Mercury in the vaccines, or the fluoride in the water, or maybe you were dropped on your head. But clearly you are not as smart as you think you are. EHHHHH! WRONG AGAIN! hahahahahahahaha!

No one is PROHIBITED from obtaining it. That's a lie. Stop lying.

Is it legal to make the flag? Yes. Is it legal to sell it? Yes. Is it legal to buy it? Yes. Is it legal to own it? Yes. Is it legal to display it? Yes. Is it legal to fly it? Yes. Is it legal to wear it? Yes. Is it legal to slap in on a bumper sticker. Yes. IT IS NOT BANNED. Fascist.

(executive orders) F**king auto edit!

If you want Amazon or eBay to sell something they don't want to sell, there's a word for that. It's called fascism. In a free market, a seller decides what he wants to sell. And the seller decides what he does NOT want to sell, for whatever reason. Are you suggesting we compel a business in a free economy to sell an item it does not want to sell? Sounds as American as ... well, as American as the CSA.

They're not forbidden to sell anything. They just can't use eBay to do it. Use some other service. Would you like to force eBay to do participate in something eBay doesn't want to participate in? Wouldn't that make you a fascist?

Well, that's not how it works. Never has been. Never will be. But that doesn't make it a ban.

Gee. That's just too bad. You've never been able to sell anything you want. You've always been restricted. Sorry to break the news to you. But that's just truth. If you'd read the agreement before clicking "I agree," you'd know that.

eBay sets the terms for use of its service. Don't like the terms? Sell the item elsewhere, which you can do because the item is, all together now, NOT BANNED.

Not the point.

eBay and Amazon are compressed wholly or in part of individual merchants who use their platform to sell goods. (As Snap006 has already pointed out) Banning the sale of Confederate flag merchandise basically takes money out of those individuals pockets and food off of their collective tables. So who is the fascist? That's right? eBay and Amazon for unilaterally banning those goods from the marketplace based on a contrived controversy that takes the responsibility of racism from the government that institutes it, condones it and codifies it, and shifts it to an inanimate object that the government created in the first place. If it's such a free market, then why won't Amazon and eBay allow those sellers to market their goods on their platform? Next time you respond you need to understand what you're talking about. They should have a buzzer that goes EHHHHHH! WRONG! Before allowing you to hit reply when you have no actual clue about the subject.

Those individual merchants are still able to make confederate flags and still able to sell them. They just can't use eBay or Amazon to do it, because eBay and Amazon made a business decision that was within their rights. That is NOT a ban on the flag. If you would like for eBay and Amazon to be forced to sell an item they do not want to participate in selling, then perhaps the Confederate flag isn't the one that symbolizes your position. Heil!

Actually, one does. All the time. Ebay. Amazon. It's a user agreement, not a contract. It doesn't get negotiated. The site sets the rules, and you either abide by them or you take your goods elsewhere. Still not a ban, because the item remains legal to make, sell, buy, own, display, wear, fly, etc. Nothing's being BANNED. You want to tell a business what it must or must not sell? That's fascism.

And yet, marketplace sites like Amazon and eBay do that all the time. Don't like it? Sell your goods elsewhere, which you can do when the items are NOT BANNED.

No one "signs" the agreement. "If you're going to use this site, these are the terms." Period. Same with Facebook. Same with Twitter. Here's the terms of use. The corp. gets to change the terms of use and if you don't agree, you walk. Not hard at all.

No, they do not need to get your consent. That is a LIE. You accept the terms by using their service and reject the terms by not using the service. Facebook changes its terms and does not get your consent. Twitter changes its terms and does not get your consent. eBay and Amazon change their terms and do not get your consent. You don't like their new terms, you stop using their service. It's really not that complicated. And it's certainly not a ban.

You agree to the new terms the next time you use their site. Why is this complicated to you? They change the terms unilaterally all the time. Don't like it? Don't use their site. Problem solved. Sell your product on your own site. Which you can do, because the product...is...not...BANNED.

I sell stuff on ebay. You pay for a subscription. Whenever the terms change, you get an email telling you about the terms and if you agree. One was never sent for this issue.

Maybe they haven't gotten around to sending that e-mail yet. Maybe they will change their minds. Who knows. Point is, they have a right to do it, and they don't need your consent. Period.

Also seems they are being a tad selective, seeing as I found two confederate flag items for sale with no notice that it's no longer available. Of course, it's not the battle flag. But that hardly seems the point, I don't think. Maybe you disagree. I don't know.

In any event, they don't need your consent to change their policy. You need to give your consent to continue using their service.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ebay-confederate-flag-auctions-20150624-story.html

Doing something all the time only means you feel you have a monopoly, it doesn't mean you aren't violating the terms of an agreement. You sound like a corporatist shill.

Holy crap. Amazon does not need the consent of its users to establish or alter its terms of agreement. You either accept their terms and do business with them or you don't and you don't. USA! USA! They can change their terms any bleeping time they want. Corporate shill? For stating the obvious? Bottom line, it's still not a ban.

(comprised) F**king auto edit!

Oh, and by the way, you just proved my initial point with your wrong rant. "And the seller decides what he does NOT want to sell, for whatever reason." Well we know the reason, and you know what? That sounds just like A BAN!

That's because you're STILL illiterate. You see, when a seller decides not to sell something, that's his choice. It's not a "ban." A ban gives the seller no choice. The makers of confederate flags can still sell them. They just can't use marketplaces that decline to participate in selling that item. That's FREEDOM. Forcing a marketplace to make an item available is fascist.

Are Black Panther flags sold at Confederate museums? No. Why? Because they're banned? No. Because the seller does not want to sell them. Not a ban. Learn Englitch.

Hahaha. Point remains, the flag isn't banned just because someone chooses not to sell it.

D you think about what you're saying before you say it? If you don't allow someone to sell their goods based on an arbitrary excuse on a platform that they've been selling on for years before, you are BANNING them from selling those goods and they no longer have that CHOICE. For most sellers, eBay and Amazon are the ONLY CHOICE for reaching a national and international market. That is NOT freedom. And Black panther flags aren't sold at Confederate museums because the Black Panthers came about in the 1960s and the Civil War was in the 1860s. And the Black Panthers had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Confederacy. Go back to the children's table, you continue to embarrass yourself. But I know you'll keep trying. EHHHH! WRONG AGAIN!

Is it legal to make the flag? Yes. Is it legal to sell it? Yes. Is it legal to buy it? Yes. Is it legal to own it? Yes. Is it legal to display it? Yes. Is it legal to fly it? Yes. Is it legal to wear it? Yes. Is it legal to slap in on a bumper sticker. Yes. IT IS NOT F**KING BANNED. A business' decision NOT to allow itself to be used to participate in the sale or distribution of the flag is not a "ban." Jesus Christ, what does it take to get THROUGH to some people.

Again, there's a difference between "Legal" and Banned. Is it legal to get an abortion? Yes. Can you get one everywhere in this country? No. You know why? Because of a de-facto BAN. Arbitrarily BANNING a product with no change in the terms of service and no prior notice and no real good reason is disingenuous at best, fascist at worst. It's a subterfuge and rubes like you fall for this shit all the time because like all good sheeple you believe everything you see on TV. Go back to the Children's table.

"De facto ban..." Made up term. You invented a whole new term to get around the fact that you're making shit up.

Abortion is not banned anywhere in this country. If you want to talk about "de-facto bans," GOVERNMENT inventing rules and barriers that make it difficult/impossible to get an abortion would constitute a de facto ban. Note the operative word: GOVERNMENT.

If no doctors in a given state performed abortions, that would not be a ban. That would be their decision as medical health professionals. If it was legal and government did nothing to make it less legal or less easy, it would not be a ban, no matter how difficult it is to obtain.

You can't get an abortion where I live. You know why? I live in a residential neighborhood. Is abortion BANNED in my neighborhood? NO, stupid. You just have to go where it's available to get one.

You obviously don't know what BANNED means. It does NOT mean "the buyer is inconvenienced, therefore it's a ban." It does not mean "the seller is inconvenienced. Therefore it's a ban." It does not mean "I can't force the market, which would profit off this sale and is rejecting that money on principle, to betray its principle to allow me to use its resources to sell it or buy it, therefore it's a ban." If you don't know what a ban is, that's YOUR problem.

To call a private business decision "fascist" because you don't agree with it... is fascist. It's their decision. They have a first amendment right to make it. If you want to do business with them, you abide by their decision. If you want to keep selling your racist, traitor rag, you are likewise free to do so. Somewhere else. Why are you free to do so? Because it's not f**king banned, de-facto or otherwise.

Can you fly it at the statehouse in S. Carolina where it's been for years? No. Can you buy it on eBay? No. Can you buy it on Amazon? No. Do you know why? Yes. Because it's BANNED! Dumbass. You can use all the euphemisms, semantics and sophistry you like, but it doesn't change the facts. Just because it's BANNED in some places and not in others doesn't change the fact that it's BANNED from Amazon, BANNED from eBay, BANNED from flying at the S. Carolina statehouse. Now go your mandatory vaccination and go back to the children's table, the ADULTS are talking.

So much stupid. How do you walk?

YOU can't fly it at the statehouse in S. Carolina because you can't fly anything at the statehouse in South Carolina. But South Carolina CAN. It CHOSE not to. They moved it. THAT'S NOT A BAN, dipshit. That's moving it.

It's not a BAN that you can't buy it on eBay. It's not a ban that you can't buy it at Amazon. It's not a ban that you can't buy it at Walmart.

It's only a ban if it's illegal to make it, sell it, buy it, own it, display it, wear it or fly it. NONE OF THOSE THINGS IS ILLEGAL. Because the flag is NOT banned, dick.

No dumb ass, that's a business decision on their part to not lose customers, AKA $$$. Removing it, and not upsetting a certain % of customers, trumps the % of people that were purchasing said flag. SIMPLE ECONOMICS 101.