Imgflip Logo Icon

"JeSuS wAs A sOcIaLiSt/CaPiTaLiSt"

"JeSuS wAs A sOcIaLiSt/CaPiTaLiSt" | Jesus was not capitalist. Capitalism wasn't even theorized yet; *deep breath*; And neither was socialism | image tagged in memes,inhaling seagull,socialism,capitalism,stupid people,dumb ass | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
58 views 2 upvotes Made by Just_Facts 3 weeks ago in politics
6 Comments
1 up, 3w,
3 replies
Socialism failure | image tagged in socialism failure | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
Capitalism has existed since mankind could smelt ores. If you read a Bible Jesus asks for a coin to make an example when asked a trick question.
He says "render unto Ceasar that which is Cesar's and render unto God that which is Gods."
The 12 disciples kept a money box of donations.
Judas kept it. Says right in the NT.
Jesus didn't have a problem with Capitalism. He did have a problem with money changers in the temple- who were ripping people off on what was Holy Ground.
Socialism only goes back to the 1850s. It's not 2000 years old yet. Capitalism was old thousands of years ago when the bronze age was new.
0 ups, 2w,
1 reply
I think I understand what you're saying, and there's an important point you're right about: markets, private property, money, trade, merchants, and profit all existed long before modern capitalism. Jesus absolutely lived in a world where those things existed, and he wasn't opposed to money simply because it was money.

Where I think your argument goes wrong is equating the existence of those things with capitalism itself.

Capitalism isn't simply “people have been buying and selling things.” If that were the definition, virtually every society with markets would have been capitalist, including ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, and Rome. Capitalism as a distinct economic system is a much more specific historical concept involving things like capital accumulation, wage labor, private ownership of productive assets, and markets playing a central role in organizing economic activity. Historians generally place its development much later than the Bronze Age.

And the examples you give from Jesus don't actually establish that he endorsed capitalism.

“Render unto Caesar” establishes that taxes are owed to Caesar. It doesn't establish a preferred economic system. The disciples having a money box establishes that they handled money and donations. Again, that's not evidence for capitalism. And yes, Jesus' condemnation of the money changers wasn't a condemnation of commerce itself. It was about what was happening in the Temple.

But that's precisely why my original point matters.

Jesus wasn't a socialist or a capitalist. Neither system existed as such in his lifetime. He lived under a Roman agrarian economy while teaching an ethic that included radical generosity toward the poor and a willingness to surrender wealth for the sake of others. Matthew 19:21 is pretty difficult to reconcile with the idea that Jesus was simply affirming ordinary wealth accumulation. And Acts 2:44–45 describes early Christians holding possessions in common and distributing resources according to need.

That doesn't make Jesus a socialist any more than having merchants makes him a capitalist.

So I think we're actually closer on the historical point than it might seem. Ancient people had markets. Jesus used money. Jesus wasn't preaching the abolition of currency. Where I disagree is turning those facts into “therefore Jesus was fine with capitalism.”

(More)
0 ups, 2w
(cont)
And there's one more thing worth separating. Socialism being coined in the 19th century doesn't mean every idea later associated with socialism originated in the 19th century. Likewise, ancient markets don't mean capitalism as a modern economic ideology existed thousands of years ago.
The historical distinction matters here. Otherwise we're just putting modern political labels on an ancient world that didn't use them.
0 ups, 2w
As for your image? You're right about one thing: roads, bridges, schools, and hospitals aren't inherently socialism. Public works can exist under virtually any economic system, including Rome.

But the image gets several important things wrong.

Socialism did not begin in 1847, and Marx didn't invent socialism. Socialist thinkers such as Saint-Simon, Fourier, and Robert Owen were developing socialist ideas before Marx. And Das Kapital wasn't published in 1848. The first volume came out in 1867. You're thinking of The Communist Manifesto, which was published in 1848.

The definition of socialism in the meme is also far too narrow. Socialism does not simply mean "everything belongs to the state" or "there is no private property." That's describing particular forms of state socialism or communism, not socialism as a whole. Likewise, welfare and food stamps aren't inherently socialism. Capitalist countries can and do have welfare programs.

And "socialism failed everywhere" only works if you treat every socialist tradition and every country that called itself socialist as the same thing. That's historically far too simplistic.

But this actually supports my original point about Jesus.

I'm not arguing Jesus was a socialist. I'm arguing that he wasn't a capitalist either. He lived in a Roman agrarian economy with money, markets, private property, trade, taxation, and wealth inequality. Those things existed long before capitalism as a distinct economic system.

Jesus' teachings about wealth and poverty are what matter here. Matthew 19:21 emphasizes giving possessions to the poor, and Acts 2:44–45 describes early Christians sharing possessions and distributing resources according to need.

That doesn't make Jesus a socialist. But your examples don't make him a capitalist either.

Ancient people having markets doesn't mean capitalism existed in the modern sense, just as ancient people sharing resources doesn't mean socialism existed in the modern sense.

The historically defensible position is that Jesus was neither. He was a first-century Jewish teacher living under the Roman economic order, whose teachings about wealth and poverty have since been interpreted by both socialist and capitalist traditions.
0 ups, 2w
Seems like you're touting socialism and don't know much about it
0 ups, 3w
Jesus operated within the Roman agrarian economy while teaching an ethic of radical generosity and concern for the poor.
(Matthew 19:21) (Acts 2:44–45).
Created with the Imgflip Meme Generator
IMAGE DESCRIPTION:
Jesus was not capitalist. Capitalism wasn't even theorized yet; *deep breath*; And neither was socialism