i'm not israeli, palestinian, or a follower of an abrahamic faith, so take this with a grain of salt

yes

Fair and thought out.
UV!

thanks, what does uv stand for?

Up vote

okie thnx

The one good thing I can say about this post is that at least, on the surface, it appears to be made in good-faith. It acknowledges that what is said here is not the ultimate truth to the so-called conflict, and that the reader doesn’t have to disagree.

First off, I don’t even think I need to bring up the numerous war crimes Israel has committed. Using white phosphorous on civilians, bombing hospitals, schools, civilian centers & more (UNRWA school airstrike, Church of Saint Porphyrius airstrike, Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion), airstriking refugee camps (ex. Al-Shati & Jabalia), making a military offensive in safe zones (ex. Rafah), breaking ceasefires (ex. 18 March attacks), committing perfidy, blockading Gaza, shooting at civilians trying to get aid (ex. Flour massacre), and more.

None of the actions listed above exactly scream (trying to minimize civilian casualties).

None of the actions listed above are by accident, either. This is all by design. This is intentional.

In fact, Israeli officials have openly spouted genocidal rhetoric against Palestinians (or Arabs, if you will), and it is that by no uncertain terms. You can look through here, and even find links to direct statements from them. Hamas is simply an excuse.

imgflip.com/i/9pr4dx

And I have a good idea what you might respond. You might say that Palestinians have brought this upon themselves by supporting Hamas and not rising up against them. That the blame lies on them for the entire “conflict” starting, and that they should be made to pack their bags and leave.

First of all, we have a term for that, and that is called “forcible transfer”.

Second of all, “negotiations have failed” conveniently skips over the 18 March attacks from Israel, as they were the ones that had broken the ceasefire.

Third of all, you would be calling for the collective punishment of Gazans due to a war crime committed by their government. But imagine if you were an American, and you, along with your own people, were punished for your government’s numerous war crimes. You acknowledge these extensive war crimes yourself, saying yourself that they had committed war crimes in Vietnam and the Middle East.

Hell, your people arguably still facilitate these war crimes by voting in the same government that does this kind of thing every 4 years.

That doesn’t seem fair, does it?

Again, this is what you would be calling for Palestinians, all for their government committing an atrocity that is much smaller in scale compared to the shit the U.S. government has done and continues to do.

right, i'm not 100% certain on this, but if the events of ww2 didn't happen, the creation of israel could have been done in a more careful manner that didn't displace the palestinian people and subject them to apartheid, considering that there was talk among leaders of judaism and governments of creating a zionist state in the early 1900s

look, israel is a key ally of us, and protecting american security and economy interests will inevitably put those who disagree with us at a disadvantage, but terrorism is never an appropriate way to respond and should be met with punishment of its perpetrators and executioners, while innocent people who get caught in the way should be spared and aided

The entire purpose of Israel is that it’s a Jewish state, meaning that it is a state where Jewish people, at the very least, are the dominant ethnic group. This is known as an ethnocracy, or as some people like to call it to make it sound better, an “ethnic democracy.”

This is the fundamental goal of the State of Israel, to maintain a state where Jews are the dominant ethnic group. If it weren’t, then its Supreme Court wouldn’t reject the idea of an equal Israeli identity for both Jews and Arabs because it “undermined Israel’s Jewishness.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/supreme-court-rejects-israeli-nationality-status/

Even before World War Two, events like the First Aliyah prove this, as European Jews from this time had settled in Palestinian land for this very purpose.

This sort of idea, where a state must be concerned with not “undermining Israel’s Jewishness” and making one single ethnicity dominant over the natives, fundamentally contradicts the idea of equality. Fundamentally, Israel would want to displace Palestinians and subject them to apartheid.

Look, I’m not calling for the reversal for this to happen. In fact, if there was an Israeli state where both Jews and Arabs could live together in harmony, then great. But the thing is, so long as the State of Israel exists, this sort of peace is wishful thinking at best.

And it is not right to continue this occupation of Palestinian land just so a colonial empire can hold another outpost in the Middle East, which is why I support the Palestinian cause.

Other than that, I really don’t care about the rest of what the post has to say.

I do agree that the U.S. government should focus more on cracking down on **actual** antisemitism rather than anti-genocide protests. And as for Musk, I really don’t care. I’m not an American, and since the American people voted in the party supported by him, it’s their decision.

One small nitpick I have with this, however, is the fact that this only brings up the atrocities the U.S. government committed in Vietnam and the Middle East when they have done a lot more. They’ve also intervened in South America, Central America, Africa, most of Asia, Eastern Europe, and more. Hell, they’ve even owned literal colonies at some point (and still do, just calling them something else now).

I won’t go into too much depth, but you can search “U.S. involvement in regime change” to learn more.

One last factoid I’d like to point out is that the atrocities the U.S. committed in Korea were so bad that the Canadian government accused them of genocide. Imagine committing war crimes so horrific that your own allies turn on you like that.

https://www.thecanadafiles.com/articles/canada-releases-70-year-old-document-that-accuses-us-of-genocide-biological-warfare-during-korean-war