Finally declining

(muslim)

Christianity is falling much faster than they're gaining. I don't like either and hope for a mostly atheist country.

In the 1930s it was predicted that Atheism was the route we were on, and those in the scientific and medical fields would be leading the way. They even started tabulating numbers to keep track. But it turned out some years ago that despite such expectations, the increase in Atheism among those groups wasn't anything significant.

Interesting thing about those that don't actively practice religion, their children don't always stay away. Quite a few seek out religion, maybe go find another type. In fact there seems to be some sort of natural instinct that makes people inclined to be religious in some manner or another. Probably genes conferring such a drive as the more religious people are, the more altruistic and cooperative they tend to be, particularly with each other. This in turn gives them a higher survival rate, and thus the trait gets passed on,,,

Islam isn't growing solely due to population growth, but by conversion as well. In the UK, for example, while not in massive numbers - yet - it has managed to attract quite a few converts of British stock. The more common pattern is of young women from broken single parent homes. Evidently Islam, with its more rigid rules and strict male-dominated hierarchy, supplies to them the foundation and fatherly discipline they missed out on growing up. A decade or so ago, the numbers were in the (four digit) 1000s, but nevertheless they're increasing.

We see the same thing in US prisons, with young men, especially minorities (likewise from broken single parent homes) converting to Islam.

On the surface it doesn't seem so bad, offering people who feel lost some sort of grounding, a moral code, keep them away from criminality and further personal dysfunction.

But then when you look at Sharia Law and some of the harsh punishments that go with it as well as other customs the religion is notorious for, well, just take a look at their societies and compare them to ours. Stoned to death for adultery, gang rape by the village men as a form of discipline and punishment, getting thrown off of building for the crime of being the younger male molested by an older man while the perpetrator gets away with a couple of lashings and a good scolding, honor killings visited on daughters - usually....

Be careful what you wish for, because it is here.
And it is far worse than being forced to go to Mass on Sundays as a child.

uhh

what he said

?

nothin, just a joke, im trying to make sure this guy doesnt feel attacked

Why would I feel attacked?

Attacked?

Yes, I agree that Islam is much worse than Christianity, but it has little prevalence in my life so it has never been a concern of mine. I have been in Christianity for my whole life so I focus on that.

I can see that you follow at least three different LGBTQ streams. Those wouldn't be under Islam. LGBTQ wouldn't be under Islam. Those letters, what they stand for, would not exist under Islam.

That's exactly why I disagree with Islam as well.

Are you atheist?

thats hazbin lore i think not religious belief, i could be wrong though

ok nvm

god created the world in six days and rested on the seventh, he made adam and eventually eve, god told them they could do anything in the garden of eden as long as they didnt eat from the tree of knowledge, eve got curious one day though and satan in the form of a serpent convinced eve to eat from it and eve convinced adam to eat too, thei eyes were opened (figuratively) and they realized they were naked, god punished them for disobeying by banishing them from the garden

yesh

According to christianity, it was god that gave them free will. He created satan and gave him the responsibility of making adam and eve disobey which would lead them to free will. Satan was just a tool for god. (same with the story of job)

thats tricky, the debate if the snake was lucifer or satan (satan as an angel or the devil) has been a thing for a while now so we dont really know if god used satan or lucifer betrayed him, it took you a while to respond though so its good to see you have a life

no offense

Satan and lucifer are the same. The names are used interchangeably.

i use lucifer as satan before he was stripped of his uhh "angelness"

Except neither is connected.

No, they are not the same. Neither is the Serpent God nor the Devil nor a whole bunch of other things lumped together is the same. By Christians, no less.

In the context of christianity, they are the same being.

I don't believe either exists, but Christians do.

You said they are the same.
They aren't.

No, it's not. You said, "Because they are different beings. That's why they're described as different beings. That's why they have different names. Because they're different beings."

You claimed that they are different beings because they have different names, it's your argument, not mine.

Again, can you please tell me which religion/beliefs you have? They are very different from standard Christianity. I cannot make statements/arguments if you refuse to believe my sources.

I'm relatively sure that I'm relatively aware of what I said. Relatively.

A title is not a name. King is not the first name of Charles III.

So "The Lord" and "God" are different? According to your logic, yes, but we know that's not true because different names don't mean different beings.

Yes, I can. I can confidently say that women weren't made from men's ribs, bodies of water don't part to let millions cross, and a 500-year-old man didn't build a boat capable of holding all animals necessary for repopulating the earth. Again, I'm not Christian. I'm only refuting their arguments, not some obscure version of Christianity that claims to be the real one.

I literally am. You think I'm not an atheist because I follow an atheist stream? People make memes about their beliefs or against others. Your argument can be easily reversed to claim that any hobby you have isn't reflective of what you enjoy.

Obviously, and I will do the same to them, hence my reasoning for making atheist memes. Yes, I still am part of it. (still in a Christian high school and a religious family) Making memes against what's pushed into my everyday life is enjoyable for me since I can be honest about what I believe.

No, that's your logic.

Lord and God are titles, and they're used to refer to Yahweh.

That's a little bit different than claiming a medieval goatman inhabited Eden cosplaying as a snake.

I keep repeating myself because you never gave a clear response.

Again, I am not Lutheran. I do however believe that it's an accurate representation of Christianity.

Then I can't discuss anything. I can't argue for or against your beliefs if I don't know them.

Again, can you please tell me what religion you follow? All the Christians I've known believe Lucifer and satan are the same. I can't make any arguments if you have an entirely different belief than the one I'm arguing against.

So your fellow Christians that you're vouching for from your church believe in the same erroneous Church teachings?
Shocker.

Again, I am not Christian. I only attend church and Christian schooling because my parents are religious.

Lutheran/non-denominational beliefs are pretty standard in Christianity. I still have no idea what religion you are, but it's getting pretty confusing.

No, Lutheran beliefs are pretty standard in Lutherism.

I'm not talking about what religion I am. I'm talking about scripture.

It's really curious that you are so defensive of one church's doctrine when you claim to be an Atheist.

There are many denominations, luthern is one of them.

Yes, but your scripture and beliefs are very different from anything I've heard. You reject paul's writings (basically the entire NT), have different beliefs about satan/lucifer, and refer to Christians as if you're a part of something else ("By Christians, no less")

Because you're making false claims about Christianity's teachings, this has been done before to make Christianity seem less sexist, homophobic, and theoretically socialist than it truly is. The fact is, Christianity IS all of those things, and people pretending it's not aren't helping anyone out.

Scripture is scripture, it does not change according to the denomination, despite denominations attempting to change it to suit their false narratives.

Your cognitive dissonance just keeps on - defensive, denial, then decry.

You're not an atheist, although you like to claim you are. Your issue is homophobia in church teachings.

So can you explain what you're doing? Because your version doesn't fit anything I've heard before. I can't make an argument against you if I have no idea where you stand or what you believe.

Nah, I'm pretty confident in my beliefs. Sexism, racism, and homophobia in the church just convince me even more that it's a man-made religion used to justify hatred.

Nope, I'm 100% an atheist despite your desperate attempts to gaslight me.

You can't make an argument against me because there's no argument to make.
Seriously? That's all this is to you, making an argument? For what purpose?

You keep insisting on atheism beside despite making an ardent defense for Lutheranism, even asking me what church I belong to in order to attack that in comparison to prove your church is right.

Because I like to express and enforce my beliefs. It's the same reason people have debates, it's interesting.

No, I am only defending Lutheranism because your Christian beliefs are very different from it and all other denominations I've been a part of. When you're debating someone/discussing a topic, you need to know what you're arguing against.

I have no idea what I'm arguing against, so I can't provide you with sources you'll trust which makes it very difficult to have a conversation.

Exactly, I believe my experience with Christianity is representative of the religion so of course I will view Christianity in the way I've experienced it. If you would explain your beliefs clearly, I could discuss them in the way you view them, not something completely different from your beliefs.

Why do you keep repeating yourself?

You're talking about your Lutheran beliefs.

Belief is irrelevant. I'm not talking about my 'beliefs'

What evidence do you have for them being different beings? Also, what religion/beliefs do you have since they don't seem to align with standard Christianity?

Yes, I can say with 100% confidence that there is no god, Christianity is man-made, its claims are fake, and I (and all other atheists) are correct in their beliefs.

Because they are different beings. That's why they're described as different beings. That's why they have different names. Because they're different beings.

No, you cannot say with all 100% confidence there is no God. No one can. And you're not even trying. You keep referring to Christian dogma as if it is an ultimate truth.

You are not a non-believer, you only wish you were. If you really had no religious belief, you wouldn't be bothering with this stream.

People are going to do as they do and think as they think and believe as they believe regardless of whether or not it annoys you. And it shouldn't annoy you. You're not part of it. Most Christians aren't even part of their own religion, it is the most superficial of all beliefs. It's just for show.

I believe they are the same being in the context of Christianity. Either way, it doesn't matter to me since neither exists.

Belief is irrelevant, and it doesn't make it any better if said belief is from a non-believer.

Did you not ever for second stop to consider the fact that perhaps maybe, just maybe, you might be right? Yes, Christianity is fanfic, it is a bastardization, a corruption. It, ironically, is the very Antichrist that it warns about. It is a pagan Roman creation utilized by a Roman Emperor to steal the religion and utilize it for his own purposes.

The Serpent, Lucifer, and Satan are not one and the same. Hence why for starters they have different names, and are also different types of beings.

That's sort of Christianity, that has nothing to do with anything in the Bible. What you posted is fiction. And no, not the same with the story of Job.

Can you explain this further?

Can you?
Look up anything in the Bible that backs what you stated. Anything.

The Tree of Knowledge gave people knowledge, God forbade Adam and Eve from doing so because that tree was reserved for the Gods. How can he give them free if he didn't allow it, and when they got it he cast them out of Paradise along with the Serpent God who told them to partake of it?

God did not create Satan. The rest of that sentence does not make sense. Satan was never even in Eden.

Satan, or the Satan (if there actually was only one), sat in the Heavenly Council with the rest of the Gods. He played the role of an accuser in the court. That was his role, not as a tool. He detect Job as a test on behalf of Yahweh, but that is that. That's the extent of how 'evil' he was.

God gave humans free will- Genesis 2:16-17, "And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

God creating Satan- Colossians 1:16-17, "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

Letting Satan tempt humans and satan being successful- Genesis 3:1-7 (I won't post it because it's too long)

Christianity is a monotheistic religion, and its followers only believe in one god. They don't see satan or the other angels as gods. Christians will still argue that it's free will since god let them choose to eat the fruit, even though they were punished. Christianity has lots of flaws like this which its followers only double down on instead of admitting their bible has flaws.

The bible claims god created all things (Col. 1:16-17), including satan.

It's still a monotheistic religion. Satan was an angel created to make music in heaven, he wanted to be like god, and god sent him to hell. That's how Christianity explains it. Again, I believe they are both fictional, but I do agree that Satan isn't necessarily "evil" according to the bible. He along with humans only exercised free will and had goals and aspirations. (wanting to be like god/have knowledge)

Do you mind me asking what religion/beliefs you have?

Not sure if you're trying to pull my leg, but in case you aren't, kindly reread your sources and get back to me. Because it's pretty much saying the opposite of what you're claiming and/or simply doesn't apply. What the anti-christ Saul/Paul, murderer of Christians wrote a thousand years later does not apply. Smart guy though, if you can't beat them make them join you. It's so brilliant, that is riding's indicate he might be real after all.

What kind of bible/version are you reading then? I've been taught from all the standards, KJV, NIV, and ESV.

You're rehashing church revisioning and propaganda.
You call yourself an atheist yet cannot let that go.

I'm going with the type of Christianity that has been taught to me since I could understand the world.

Yes, I do consider myself to be right.

Again, I'm arguing against the beliefs of nearly every Christian denomination, not some obscure beliefs that claim to be the true version and different than the others.

I said "The OT claims" not "Christians claim". I don't know which translation you're reading, but it's very different from all the others.

There's nothing personal about me and a mythical being, I'm only refuting dumb arguments that people have been trying to shove into my face since I could talk.

That's the point, you're going by what you were taught, not by what scripture says.

Maybe because Christianity still plays a massive role in my life whether I like it or not? I still attend a Christian school, go to church, and fake religion daily because I have to.

If you don't want to believe the NT sources, reread Genesis. It makes claims that "god created the heavens and the earth" implying that god created the skies (heaven(s) can mean several things but this verse implies god created the holy place in the sky along with its inhabitants which includes satan/lucifer)

Modern Christianity bases itself on Paul and the disciple's claims and writings. The OT still claims that god created all that exists.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

"I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

"You shall have no other gods beside Me. You shall not make for yourself any graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord Your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

I really never understood self-proclaimed anti-Christains who insist on sticking with Christian dogma no matter how wrong it is which is part of why they claim they don't like Christianity to start with.

Go with your own flow. Believe in yourself. Give yourself some credit. Consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, you're right. It is bunk. It is bullshit. It is Christianity. It isn't Jewish. It isn't Jewish for a reason.

It is made up. And it's made up for a reason. You're onto something. That's the first step. Now how long is it going to take you to take the next step and stop referring to it like it is the absolute God-given truth because Saul/Paul the antichrist?

"But Christians say... but Christians say" does not invalidate the Old Testament.

Judaism emerged from monolatristic - believing there were multiple God's but worshiped only one God above the others - to monotheistic, believing there was only one God. This was a Zoroastrian influence from after the Iranians liberated the Jews from Babylon.

It's like I've been saying for ages, nobody, but nobody believes in God like an Atheist, because with them it's personal.