those programs are their for you too.

What businesses have gone broke due to reduced taxation and not being subsidized?

How would a lack of social programs, not being taxed, and no student loan forgiveness cause businesses to go broke?

Loan forgiveness means extra money to invest in the business, as we saw with the PPE loans, a lack of social programs includes business subsidies which farmers and others rely on, not being taxed means no retirement plan or other safety nets for business owners and workers alike, if the government doesn't subsidize things like electricity, cable, internet, roads, water, and food, who is going to the enormous cost it takes to make sure these things are distributed? Oh that's right, you and your business. And if you chose not to pay your share to keep things running as many of you would then everyone has to work in the dark.

You provided no answers to my questions.

You seem to base your reply on a zero taxes argument instead of a less taxes argument.

Why?

I answered the second part. The first part can be answered with the too big to fail argument. Less taxes for people struggling is fine, more taxes for rich bastards are needed. If they wont pay taxes then they should gtfo.

You answered the second part as if the argument were high taxes vs NO taxes.

Can you answer to the actual argument of high taxes vs LOW taxes?

"Rich bastards"?

You argument is based on emotional bias.

I don't have because that person does...if there were no "rich bastards" in the world there would only be poor bastards.

You have equity of opportunity.

Apply yourself, manage your resources wisely, create an industry, contribute to society, and you thoughts on the matter will change.

all thats horseshit and you know it. upward mobility is always extremely limited and you have to be very very lucky indeed. you didnt ask me about high or low taxes you asked me to give examples of how taxes supported business. which i did.

You are mischaracterizing.

I asked you for examples of businesses that went broke due to lower taxes and not being subsidized.

im not mischaracterizing. and i gave you one example, but it wasnt the best one so here is another. Farming. Back in the day we had too much food, such that the prices where too low for farmers to make money while at the same time food was rotting on the shelves. its why we created subsidies for farmers, so that in a bad year they could continue farming and not lose everything. basically this is why we pay farmers not to farm, to avoid that happening again, its also why we find alternate uses for things like corn and soy. so that the excess can be used in other products and keep farmers moving.as for lower taxes, it would keep the little guy in business and able to compete against large corporations, who should be paying far more in taxes than anyone else. in that way, higher taxes on corporations and lower taxes for small businesses keeps small businesses running.

I clarified other than farming.

That is a nice story.

However, it is incomplete.

Do more research.

90% of corn is used for ethanol production and animal feed.

And those contracts must be fulfilled before corn can be sold at grocery stores.

10% of corn gets used for human consumption.

And that starch grain is stuffed in every edible product manufactured in tbe US.

Not good for the public health.

Animals have always needed fed. Having been raised on a farm I can tell you, nothing was wasted, nothing lasted long enough to rot.

If we didn't eat it in a timely manner, the chickens and the pigs got it.

You cannot name any other businesses because they do not exist.

okay so for one thing you keep moving the goal posts. its always other than other than when i defeat the point you are trying to make. if farmers fail, its their own damn fault just like everyone else, with or without government help. im done engaging with you, ive gave every example and you are just out to prove me wrong, and cannot, so as stated, you keep trying to move the goal posts and change the question. you are not debating in good faith. in short, f**k off.

as usual you are incorrect and ignoring the historical significance, what you describe maybe how it is today but that's not how it was when these subsidies where created. i did describe why we do what we do with corn and soy, finding alternate ways to sell, so you ignored point about that, you never said anything about excluding farming. i did point to another example as well, called to big to fail which saved corporations and gave rise to corporate welfare at a time when they otherwise would have went bankrupt, and we see that time and again even today with banking etc. now i dont necessarily agree that should be happening, but i also understand how and why doing it staves off disaster. as for other businesses, sure i can name a few actually, such as waste management, municipal water and sewer, municipal electricity, public utilities in general and up until recently because of or loss of net neutrality, the internet. lets see hmm, lower taxes on small businesses ill remind you leaves more money for small businesses to reinvest in their business and higher taxes on corporations would keep those subsidies and social programs paid for without having to increase taxes on the little guy. right now the inverse is happening and you seem to be arguing to keep taxes low on the big fish while taxing the shit out of the little guy. the part of Jeffersons quote that was left unsaid: a nation that taxed itself into prosperity by marginalizing the small never is and never will be. also you seem to be referring to your personal supply of food and not to the food supplied to grocery stores, and thats what i was referring to, more food than anyone one town or city at that time could buy. we still have food waste problems, but the way it was before those subsidies existed was even worse. and sure corn syrup and additives are not good for public health, but then neither is smoking, pollution, ambient radiation from various sources such as naturally occuring radon in florida, the pollution from comapnies like dupont who poisoned our water supply, the plastic bottles that take 400 plus years to decay, alcohol is a particularly nasty menace, and yet all these thing are now required in the modern day. alcohol and cigarettes in particular being a huge source of tax revenue, revenue that keeps your hospitals open, even private ones as the medical industry gets money from you, insurance companies, and the government to stay running.

Oh no!

Anyway...

Farm businesses have failed and been foreclosed on ever since farming for profit has existed.

Subsidies did not change that.

Farms fail despite being given subsidies.

The accompanying post is in the words of a generational farmer/producer.

It is okay to envision a utopia but you cannot ignore the realities of the here and now.

Tell me another type of business OTHER THAN ENERGY, FARMING, or UTILITIES that failed for lack of subsidy, loan forgiveness, and paying less taxes .