Read the first comment.

As a Owner of the Stream, I agree

Yay, I won't get banned! lol

But seriously, it's nice to see people not only on the same page, but even nicer that people will have the ability to see that page. I've noticed a lot of people - furries, former furries and anti-furries - seem to either agree or become positively intrigued.

you're an anti arn't you??

yea

then why do you have an opinion on the current status of the infastructure of the furry fandom which you actively try to stay away from??

Because I can understand opinions

ok ig

If you think I'm attacking people based on their "identity," then you completely missed the point or possibly didn't even read, or maybe you're just helbent on being a victim that you create monsters where there are none. This is my opinion about how the fandom changed and why people in it are so miserable now. This isn't about you. DON'T CRY WOLF!

As a member of LGBTQ and a Furry, I completely agree with you

THANK YOU! That is such a relief! I couldn't post this in a couple streams because someone thought it was a hate campaign against genders.

So many of us wish we could go back to where none of that stuff mattered and we just had fun without it. That's what it was about!

I remember back when I pretended sticks where guns... aaaaaaaaaaahhhh, how time flies

Sticks were guns, bananas were phones, Teagan and Kenket were still a duo and known more for their clean stuff, and we could spend literally hours either sitting on the corner of the street or, even on FA talking about the same movie or game, coming up with jokes, theories and funny skits about it and then wanting to get art drawn of our characters acting out those skits.

Man, how I wish I could go back.

Yes.

agree :) as an lgbtq+

you know what this is fair

Yeah, save yourself a headache and don't even worry about it. lol
I already knew that the comments would end up like this. Any time you talk about sensitive and easily-triggered people, even if it's constructive criticism or even positivity, they like to whine and play victim.

Kind of funny though, because those are the people that this meme is referencing, and the reason so many left the fandom over the years.

This. Means. The truth.

as an anti fur, i 100% agree that if the community was just people having fun and not actually believing that they're animals or other degenerate stuff like that, i wouldn't be against it

your arguement on recognition has been invalidated

on e621 a I have found a sfw piece with a massive amount of favs and upvotes (2000+), and usually sfw works will recieve around the same amount of recognition as their nsfw counterparts.

No argument is invalid unless it is "nuh uh" or "kill yourself"

No offense sir, but me and Salvaged Fox were debating on the sociological infastructure of the furry fandom and you don't have the context in which I am refering too.

I love how you just 🍷🗿

true

I don't see how he "doesn't have the context." It's an open topic and he's allowed to have his own opinion.

Also the fact that you found one on e621 of all places...

SFW with over 2000 upvotes: 28

NSFW with over 2000 upvotes: ~2245 with 199 hidden (which means likely pedo art) for a total of 2444

NSFW with over 2000 upvotes with zoo art: 461 with 45 hidden for a total of 506

Furthermore, if you know my arguments so well, you'll know that I often note that the fandom started going down hill 10-11 years ago, so with that in mind:

SFW art from 10 years ago and prior with 2000 upvotes: 2

NSFW art from 10 years ago and prior with 2000 upvotes: 2 with 1 hidden

Using your logic, your arguement has been invalidated.

For those who don't know what e621 is, DO NOT GO THERE!

The sad reality is that you don't really have to put in effort to get the result numbers. They even have a cheat sheet under the "search help" link to help you use the metatags and syntax needed to single out just those ones with their own search bar. Then just count the results per page and subtract those of undesired content that aren't hidden (p*do is hidden to anyone without an account, but zoo is not)

where are the sources?

To what, the numbers? Just go on the site and use the proper metatags and syntax (which they provide a guide for) to narrow down all the stuff to the specified limitations and count how many search results you get.

Try "score:>2000 rating:safe" and "score:>2000 -rating:safe" and then count!

Note: you have to type "-feral" to get rid of zoo stuff, since feral stuff isn't hidden by default (as specified by the grey text at the bottom saying how many were hidden on each page to everyone without an account, plus basic observation), so literally by adding the "feral" tag to your search you can limit results just to zoo stuff. Also remember to add the grey text on each page.

Then add "-date:10_years_ago" to both and it'll limit every post except those from 10 years ago or more with >2000 upvotes.

Count and tell me how many you get. I'll be willing to admit if I'm off by a few.

all in all, considering A.its a porn site B.there probably was barely enough users to reach 2k on one post 10yrs ago; its pretty normal.

Yes, but A. You went to a porn site for the original comment B. back then the reference point numbers were close, but in the years since the NSFW went through the roof, adding 2577 (according to your numbers and disregarding the hidden posts) while the SFW only added 26.

So 99 percent of the interest has been on porn, vs 50 percent prior. The site allows SFW content too, and there's still a good bit of it, but in the past 10 years not many have acknowledged as much interest in either the SFW art that was available, or that which many could have commissioned but chose not to.

Not a good look for the fandom, nor for your original argument.

it was a floating example I found not an arguemnt

28 safe

38 questionable

2541 explicit

no hidden I removed my blacklist

I would appreciate if you could get me the correct numbers.

nah....later maybe

How long is "later?"

idk

Do you just not want to? You can be honest, I ain't gonna get mad about it.
I'm slightly bothered by the fact that I put in all that work and wanted your input, but I'd prefer you be honest. I'd just hope that you don't just "invalidate" peoples' arguments without any bit of evidence or effort of an argument.

You have every right to disagree with my opinions, and I don't care if you wanna trash talk me or insult me or start labelling my memes "microaggressions" or whatnot because I'm not defending the fandom, but at least be honest and don't go throwing stuff out there without any support for your argument. Even word of mouth is better than nothing. Don't be an activist or a troll. Nobody likes those kinds of people.

I don't want to annoy everyone else by fighting. I made my argument with my evidence and unless you want to make a solid rebuttal, I'd appreciate if we continue in a private chat as adults.

I will jeez

Who?

poster

I don't really............think that but whatever

"old furries" really either just agreed or moved on with their lives

I don't know how we went from pride to politics. Like seriously why can't we just let people be people ?

Take me for example. I'm aroace, so I'm technically part of LGBTQ. And I defend the fact that people are more than what conservatives told us to be. But that stop here.
Aroace is a cool new word to say that I can't and won't flirt, and LGBTQ invented tons of words to describe complex personality, but why cool movement like that tend to bend backwards sometimes?

That's why I love human psychology, it's terrifying.

You missed the point by about 1,000 kilometers, which a lot of people will. Similarly, they'll be quick to assume something without understanding the context or details.

It's not criticizing anyone for being whatever. It's about how the furry fandom wasn't initially about that and didn't care what you were, but how all of it got introduced and became the normal attitude and values within the fandom, inviting in people who are angry and miserable all the time obsessing over it and encouraging (sometimes forcing) others to be the same way, because it's not about fun or escapism the way it used to be. It's went from valuing "who you are" to "what you are," from valuing friendships to identities and allies.

What part of the meme made you think I was criticizing you for being something, or conservatives for that matter?

That's what I'm pointing out. That's what the fandom has become.

Just Read the first line and laugh. I think I'm getting less and less capable of explaining myself this week.
^^'

Nah I wasn't really talking about what you said, it was pretty clear that you wasn't attacking me or the rainbow flag. I was more ranting about the pros and cons LGBTQ brought up in society, and the reaction of people to it.
Honestly I don't give a f*ck. People are people and will be people, for the least I care.

I'm sorry of I may have confused you by driving out of the subject. I do that sometimes and I don't think that was appropriate for the stream anyway, so yeah ._.

To be fair, that was what this meme and the first comment I made to both the meme and your comment was about. That kind of behavior.

The second anyone mentions things like LGBT stuff, without reading the context people get fanatical to start treating it as an attack. That behavior is what people are tired of.

The sad reality is that few people care about what you are, and the fandom wasn't meant to have anything to do with sexuality. Many of them were supportive, yes, but no one made a big deal about it because folks didn't want to hear noisy political yammering and just enjoy time with their friends.

Makes sense. With the anonymity of the online world you care more about that people do than what people are.
This anonymity has his flaws, but usually breaking it doesn't give good output.
That must be what happened here... am I right?

Ok a real point about this meme :

Think don't stay simple and cool anyway. Very few cool things in this world survived the erosion of time, and ig this is what happened to the furry fandom.

Especially when a group becomes bigger, it has to make some restraining rules fast before it turns into chaos. So group like that ends up mostly too restraint by rules or too restraint by the people themselves within the chaos they created.

A good thing with Internet is that with good things dying there are good things being created. They are still hope for everything, because everything can be rebuild.

As an example, I'm coming from KP, which is a roblox game with furries, neutral people, kids and even anti-furries. Those people wouldn't associate if the game hadn't put early rules and have good moderators.
Of course nothing is perfect. For example one mod got banned for predatory behaviour. But they acted quickly and clearly wanted this platform to be safe for children and fun for everyone.

So, I think that everything is possible :D