"BuT mArX iS eViL." None of them can tell me why, they just cite other people who didn't follow his work.

Read Sowell's, "Knowledge and Decisions" if you ever have the time. Fantastic book that very lucidly explains how people process information and make decisions. That same process precludes 'real' socialism from ever working, especially in an individualistic liberal society.

Just got that book actually. Accidentally rented it for 5 bucks less than buying it -_-

For school, if I may inquire? I got mine for a college class.

Um no. Just for my own enjoyment.

Then I applaud your taste. It's an excellent read. 🙌

This has nothing to do with socialism. While tagged, the aspect of Marx I am referring to has nothing to do with it. The only thing I refer to is Marx's critique of capitalism who said that the means of production must belong to the working class as the only asset the working class has, is its labor power. THe more that the ruling class/the employers own the means of production, the less room there is for a larger working class. Eventually, you will have an economic crash where unemployment continues to rise and rise thanks to automation. We were warned of this by Marx who saw it coming a while ago.

If you want to discuss the merits of communism and socialism, we can do that.

Marx's whole schtick was framing life as a class struggle. I don't see it that way and neither did many other thinkers such as Sowell, Hayek, etc. That was my point. His was an interesting, but ultimately flawed, view.

As far as the meme; Manufacturing in the U.S is moving to automation because we have, by government policy, made it so that human labor is too expensive. The options left are to export that labor abroad or keep it here and pare down costs in other ways (I.E automation).

Education opportunities needed to thrive in this techy environment are difficult to obtain because huge injections of cash into university systems have made them abhorrently expensive businesses that seek cash above all else. Disadvantaged communities struggle because of that. They can't keep up.

Many of the problems in this country are created or exacerbated by the government sticking its fingers where they don't belong and screwing things up. We then blame "capitalism" and appeal to people like Marx when our own centralized decisions are causing these problems and creating class issues in the first place.

🤷‍♂️

Very strong points. Good ones too.

I think your position addresses the immediate issue at hand, but it doesn't solve the endgame that I am talking about.

In a world of full automation, if education was free to everyone, there still wouldn't be enough jobs for all of the technicians and engineers out there. to the ratio of our population.

Marx argued that the endgame *is* automation. Just flat-out unreserved the bourgeoise controlling the means of production and labor if they can. If you can get fast-food to be fully automated, you have an employer whose food is available 24/7/365 without need for breaks, holidays or anything. Except for servincing/updates. Which, by the ratio of time worked to downtime, is but a drop in the pool.

We can't keep everyone employed at this rate. So, are we to enforce simplified labor upon businesses for people? So that people can simply have jobs? You see what I'm saying?

Best case scenario I see, is that humans are assigned to monitor the automation process for each station, which will create accidents due to the drab nature of supervising a repetitive process. THere may be novel establishments that express "Human, hand-made" products... Especially in the culinary industry, probably carpentry too. But again, not everyone can be those things for work.

That is indeed a very good conversation we as a society need to be having now, not down the line. Personally I dislike automation and would prefer we tried to gun for a policy solution that made it economically attractive for manufacturers to utilize real, human workers wherever possible. Obviously if we're ever in a full-scale war and need to ramp up production, or free up people for service in uniform, or whatnot, then automation's role changes...but for a normal, peaceful society I see very real upsides to offering real incentives that keep people employed.

Then again, I'm also in favor of keeping businesses closed as much as possible one day per week, be it Saturday or Sunday, and in general cutting back on our unhealthy, artificial, consumerist culture of instant gratification. It is not particularly popular, but I prefer we try to live in the real world with real people living real lives rather than be slaves to the grind.

Some people's entire concept of morality is property rights. They even define an individual as its own property, and individual rights as coming from that. So for them, the elimination of property is the elimination of morality, evil.

Marx told us how automation would be responsible for income inequality between educated and less-educated workers?

In so many words, yes. He predicted that the endgame of the business owner, the boss, is to acquire the means of production. The means of production is the working class's only asset he can bring to the market to exchange as a commodity for the universal currency of money. What will the working class have once (this is an eventuality) automatons replace all min wage jobs?

Hard to imagine a functional socialist society, but it's possible.
It's even harder to imagine any sort of technological advancement in that society if that's the way we're going to be thinking.

Also, immigrants aren't stealing jobs - machines are.

Where did it say I said that?

Never, it's just also automation affecting the workforce

Actually reading up on the subject is too hard. Easier to just be mad because they told to be mad