Abuse occurs everywhere not just in catholic churches, what's the solution?

Boy Scouts of America declare bankruptcy in February of 2020 because of abuses, in the Amish community 1 in 3 women are abused with no consequence. It isn't just a Catholic problem. I'm interested to hear what other Catholics and non Catholics think would be the proper solution. I can tell you what the Church has done so far to address the problem.

I think we should abandon purity culture.
1.) Get rid of public punishments and push anonymity like confession booths into all religions where confession is necessary.
2.) Stress a difference between secularly immoral and religiously immoral. (having consensual sex should be punished like taking the lords name in vain, and should not be grouped in punishments for non-consensual sex.)
3.) Keep members accountable for judging others.

Also you didn't post any sources. You demand sources when people post about your church, so why is it ok for you to make claims about others without sources?

It takes a simple internet source to find numerous sources for abuse in any group. Please stop accusing me of lying, I never accused you of such. If you're so concerned about the church then how can we help improve it? Better yet grow can we stop abuse from happening again anywhere?

*how not grow

Yes, you haven't accused me of lying because I haven't lied. Stop lying for a moment and you'll stop getting called out for it.

You said you could tell me what the church has done to solve the problem...then you didn't list a single thing they've done. Is that because they haven't done anything or are you on #5 now?

In the comment above you asked for sources for my claims about the boy scouts and Amish right? Why would I give you sources for a different comment on a totally different meme?

...Because you said you would and lying is a sin.

For real, do you know any real Catholics who might actually know what they're talking about? As fun as it is to watch you squirm, lie, and deflect, you're getting boring and I was wondering if you knew anyone who could a serious, HONEST discussion about the religion you pretend to believe in.

Not until you're ready to have a serious, honest and mature discussion. Thank you for your time.

You seem to not have any argument besides "you're lying and I'm telling the truth."

If you want to fix the church; dissolve it. There's no way you can come back from centuries of child rape, genocide, kidnapping, murder etc so the best way to save yourselves is to admit that the church has failed to live up to its goals, it has made the world a worse place, and say you'll no longer give it moral authority by attending services and giving them money.

Sounds like a current day Muslim church, what are you doing about that?

You're bringing up centuries old crimes (doesn't make any of it right) how are we supposed to go back to 15th century Spain to address the inquisition?

The church can and is addressing abuses that are going on more recently. I've listed ways they have.

I will not abandon my family because one or 2 people are being jerks while the majority of my family is loving and kind, same goes for the Church.

...Did you seriously just say that "1 or 2 people" are responsible for the bad name that the catholic church has given itself?

Lie #9

Read the comment again slowly:

I will not abandon MY family (meaning Kate's parents, grandparents, siblings, cousins) because one or 2 people (meaning Kate's parents, grandparents, siblings, cousins) are being jerks while the majority of my family (meaning Kate's parents, grandparents, siblings, cousins) is loving and kind, same goes for the Church (i was using an example of my family to represent the church) though probably 2 out of a dozen a so would be the ratio of bad priests to good ones if you're talking about the entire church. Sorry, I will be careful about using analogies next time.

Oh, it's just that literally nobody was talking about your family so you bringing them up to try and change the subject threw me off

It's an ANALOGY, look it up.

It sounds like you or someone you love was hurt by someone in the Church, if so I'm deeply sorry, it should have never happened. If you need to talk about it and bring a report to the proper authorities there are numerous resources at your disposal. I am here if you need to talk about it. Even 1 victim at the hands of those who claim to follow Jesus are too many. You're in my prayers too.

https://victimconnect.org/resources/national-hotlines/

You are aware that the rise of abortion (a system religion completely opposes), has led to rises in abuse and r**e because abortion takes away the “consequence” of having a kid, meaning it can happen and nobody has to know. All these r**e cases against hollywood stars and politicians can be covered up if they happened, simply because of the existence of abortion.
Also that’s a very interesting conclusion. Since SOME people in the church are messed up, the WHOLE church is messed up. So, should I apply this to the left; since some left-wingers like Margaret Sanger, Stalin, Mao, the Kims, etc, have killed many people (and Mao is rumored to have fathered almost 1000 children), that the only way to fix the left is to end it and stop supporting the whole side? I bet you won’t apply this logic there. The point is, no organization is perfect. Atheism has caused many problems, same as the church. Heck, Darwinism inspired Lenin to drop his religion and he started the Bolshevik Revolution. Islam has had many terrorist organizations, are all Muslims terrorists? Heck, most Muslim governments today don’t even allow any belief system besides Islam, lest you suffer. This hasn’t been done with Christianity in centuries.

So I guess, to fix up your proposition here, the real solution here would be to quit believing in anything. We should dissolve all beliefs in any and every thing. Don’t give anyone money because we’re all corrupt, we’ve all failed to live up to our goals. And all organizations, political affiliations, etc, are all filled with corrupt people and we should stop giving them moral authority by supporting them and giving them money.

I love you very much, and I know a lot about abortion, and unless you make abortion illegal worldwide and cause the extinction of every natural abortive, (including vitamin c) Rich ppl will always give their mistresses abortions.

yeah
tbh it might be better that way simply bc they'd have to go to extreme lengths to hide it, and if it were suspected, an investigation could be done and the corruption could be exposed. Since it's legal and people think it's completely okay, they can just tell the women to get abortions and "consent" to it and no one will suspect a thing bc it's legal.

Thanks :)

Love... That would be Orwellian.

dang

However, I think that the new male birth control has the potential to make abortion virtually non-existent.

Interesting

Ok, so now you're rattling off genocide, kidnapping murder to the Church's rap sheet? Are you able to stay on topic at all? I could probably pick any group out of a hat and give you an entire list of their crimes during their existence. You know why? Because any group you choose will be full of Human Beings who all have sin, who don't practice what they preach, who go against what Jesus said. You know something else Jesus preached, forgive, turn away from sin and repent, love your enemies.

You've got a fair point, but I think you shouldn't be so *contentious* (if that makes sense?) cuz we're all on the same side ultimately. We want to fix systemic issues of abuse.

Again, you said that you had issues with child rape in the church that you had addressed, then you showed me an hours old meme that you had to be shamed into making by an atheist.

So can you actually show me example of you raising this with your community or are you on lie #6 now?

I just finished a 3 day day training on how to prevent, recognize and report abuse in my church simply to take my child on a1hr field trip to the park. There are posters everywhere you turn throughout the building on reporting abuse, every person that enters the school has to be screened with their drivers license, every person that volunteers or is employed had to go through numerous federal background checks, every man that enters the seminary is thoroughly questioned and screened and background checked and any sort of history with sexual misconduct is immediately disqualified from being a priest, shall I go on? Or are you on false accusation #10 now?

Who taught the course?

You know that most priest abuse happens at the hands of homosexual men right? That's why the church doesn't allow men with homosexual tendencies to enter the priesthood. Or even any tendencies toward attractions to minors but 80%of victims are male by male perpretrators so you can connect the dots. Are we still homophobic for banning them?

I hate to be a bitch, but statistically, most man on man rape is down by heterosexuals. :( (or ppl who identify as heterosexual at least.)

You're not going to thank me for answering your question? It's a Catholic program with resources throughout of state and government contacts and laws.
https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/exploring_virtus.cfm

So the people who have been raping your children for hundreds of years are the ones telling you how to prevent it?

Just how gullible are you?

The public school system rapes your kids at a much higher rate yet you probably won't accept any initiative from them to change the situation, make amends, prevent further abuse and give victims a voice to speak huh?

Your religion has rules against lying and judging others. Doesn't seem to have stopped you for a second.

You don't seem to understand the TOS, personal attacks are not allowed on this site. And the Think Tank Streams in general encourage respectful discussion, which seems you are incapable of having. I was hoping you could be mature enough to engage in dialogue.

What kind of abuse exactly?

Allow priests to marry

Pastors in protestant religions can marry, the rate of abuse is the same or more than Catholic. That's not the issue. First off don't accept men who have any attractions to young people (MAPs should be banned from the priesthood and all activities involving children) and that's exactly what's done now in the Catholic church. Superiors like bishops need to ensure priests are getting the spiritual and practical assistance they need, proper rest, have less stressful environments, make sure the priests are getting time to pray, even vacation time. Stress, lack of spiritual support, not feeling valued can all contribute to a need to take that stress out on the innocent.

“the rate of abuse is the same or more than Catholic.” Got a source for that info?

Second thought: enact two deep leadership for Catholic young groups.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/do-the-right-thing/202004/keeping-children-safe-in-the-catholic-church

Look up abuse in ____ church and you will see statistics and numbers for specific denominations that have been reported at least.

"Second thought: enact two deep leadership for Catholic young groups"

Interesting, what do you envision?

That is where a child is never allowed to be alone with an adult. There always has to be two or more adults present. Also an adult is not allowed to directly message a child through social media or email, the parent/guardian must always be cc’ed on the email.

I see. That's actually the policy the Catholic church is taking right now. Here's what's being done to prevent abuse:

A thorough vetting process for any adult wanting to be involved in the church including criminal state and federal background checks and fingerprinting. Even just to volunteer an hour of time you have to go through several hours of classes in preventing, identifying and reporting abuse. Emergency numbers are posted everywhere to report if you or someone you know had been abused, any adult working with children has to have 2 or more adults present, windows have to be in every office and classroom door, many doors only lock from the outside, you can't ride in a car with anyone under 18 without an adult. The list goes on. No one can say we're ignoring the problem now.

On my lunch break I read a couple of studies on the subject as well as the review article you sent. It made me sad to learn that as many as 6 to 13% of children are abused (data not limited to any particular church or organization). Child abuse is a problem not limited to any one group, it is really everyone’s problem. It is nice to learn about the policies that are in place in the Catholic Church. I went to a Catholic University and have a lot of respect for Catholic people.

Thanks for that. There are good and bad people in every occupation.

We would have to shut down society if people think shutting down churches will solve the problem because I think 50% of sexual abuse occurs at home at the hands of parents and family members, schools would have to close as well as daycares, theme parks, job sites, nursing homes. We need to get to the root of the problem of why people do it and remedy that rather than trying to shut the world down. You can't live in fear because of a few bad apples.

I have been a Catholic all my life and plan on continuing to my dying day because I know God can still do good even if people don't.

Oh and thanks for the link I will check it out

You're welcome, I'm happy to provide resources to anyone who asks. I appreciate your civil discussion on this sensitive topic.

Lets hold female clergy to the same standard. Or maybe Clergy should only take on asexuals to replace them as asexuals do not have sexual attraction to anyone.