*Grabs popcorn.*

If they are truly for “women’s help”, why are they closing?

https://news.yahoo.com/roe-v-wade-abortion-clinics-002223190.html

*health

Simply to avoid the hassle of christofascists laying baseless allegations, which the right wing is known to do.

Please show us the basis of your allegations that:
1. Abortion clinics in states where abortions are illegal are closing to avoid “baseless allegations”
2. Christians freak out when they find out abortion clinics are still open in other states where abortions are legal.

I’ll wait. 😂

Please show me the basis of my allegation that:
1. ALL PPH clinics (not abortion clinics) have been shut down in all such states.
2. (See MTG) "We're gonna criminalize abortion across the whole country!"

I know you don't come around here often. I also know that most RWers who come here can't really back anything up with what they say.

Asking people here who have been long established members of the stream by providing evidence to their claims over the past two years and bending over backwards to dismantle right wing propaganda to provide proof now is just laughable. That is, in my opinion.

1. Please show me where I specified PPH clinics.
2. What context is the quote “We're gonna criminalize abortion across the whole country!”

So, what you’re saying is, because you are used to an echo chamber of like minded people in this thread, you’ve been caught off guard when asked to provide a basis for your baseless allocations.

😂😂😂

1. If you're choosing "Abortion clinics" You're declaring a defined subject of the meme, which is not stated. Obviously, my meme references clinics that offer more than abortion. You're trying to minimize and reduce the definition to one thing. This is a bad faith argument.

What I am saying is, I know who you are and the people you identify with who aren't known for good faith arguments. Which, you've clearly shown to be the case here.

Can you show me where I said strictly specified "abortion clinics" being their sole function? Seems to me you saw buzzwords and reacted, then tried to use it against me and promptly failed in spectacular fashion.

Kinda embarrassing to hang yourself by your own trap.

“even though abortions have been made illegal . . . THE CLINICS are still up”.

So, are you claiming that Christian’s are upset that other clinics, that never performed abortions, are still up? I’ll break out the popcorn to munch on while I watch you try to untangle your own words. This should be entertaining. 😂😂😂

Riiiiiight. So you think just because I said abortions and clinics in the same sentence that I meant "Abortion clinics"

Clearly, you've been triggered by a buzzword.

You've been masterfully baited.

OK, please tell me what clinics - that never performed abortions - Christian’s are upset about because they’re still up.

Mmmm this popcorn sure is good. 😂

I mean, how can you not see that the proper nouns "Abortion Clinic" "Planned Parenthood" are used interchangeably, the term "Abortion Clinic" being a misnomer for the services provided?

Must be a Right Wing thing.

Remember, your meme uses the terms Abortion and Clinics instead of PPH.

So, apparently, associating abortions and clinics with PPH is a Left Wing thing

ib4 "You just don't have the proof."
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/24/texas-clinics-abortions-whole-womans-health/

“but to protect our staff and patients from hostile officials in Texas, we have ceased providing abortion care today”

Oh I see the problem. You misspelled Texas Officials as “christians”. Or was it auto correct? 😅😂🤣😆

No, I meant Christians. Texas Officials don't enter into the meme.

Thanks for grasping at straws though. I take it as a compliment.

So, you don’t even read the content of the sources you cite either? That was a direct quote from your own source.
You’re never going to get out of your hole if you keep digging. 😂😂😂😂

Nope, I did read it and it supports my meme.

Nice try at gaslighting the conversation though.

Imagine being so triggered that you're working this hard to tell me I'm wrong.

How long do I get to keep living rent free?

Services rendered by PPH, here you'll find more than pregnancy termination services. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-care/our-services

Who is arguing about PPH, much less the services they render? If ANY of them are whole health clinics, then there should be no reason for them to close just because they can no longer perform one of the services on their list. And yet they are. 🤔

Interesting how other clinics - that provide the same services but never did abortions - aren’t also closing because of the SCOTUS ruling. Oh yeah, it’s because of those “baseless allegations” that you referred to . . . as a baseless allegation. 😂

Who is arguing about PPH, much less the services they render? If ANY of them are whole health clinics, then there should be no reason for them to close just because they can no longer perform one of the services on their list. And yet they are.
>> So, you think that all they do is abortions?
... Lol.

Interesting how other clinics - that provide the same services but never did abortions - aren’t also closing because of the SCOTUS ruling. Oh yeah, it’s because of those “baseless allegations” that you referred to . . . as a baseless allegation.
>> What do you mean by "other clinics?" This is news to me from what you're saying. But if what you're saying is true, that means these christian extremists care only about planned parenthood (could you provide some other examples of "abortion clinics" beyond PPH?) because this is entirely political and not about physicians who have practiced before or had the ability to.

Please.

Tell me more.

“So, you think that all they do is abortions?”
Nope but it’s apparently their bread and butter since they’re closing.

What do you mean by "other clinics?"
Clinics that aren’t closing because of the overturn of Roe v Wade.

“But if what you're saying is true, that means these christian extremists care only about planned parenthood (could you provide some other examples of "abortion clinics" beyond PPH?) “
Once again, you’re the only one who keeps bringing up PPH. Since you don’t even read your own sources, it doesn’t surprise me that you didn’t rest the source I gave in the original comment. Try reading it and then show me where it mentions Planned Parenthood or Christians causing clinics to close.

“So, you think that all they do is abortions?”
Nope but it’s apparently their bread and butter since they’re closing.
>> Nope.

What do you mean by "other clinics?"
Clinics that aren’t closing because of the overturn of Roe v Wade.
>> Which ones, exactly? "Clinics" is ambiguous.

“But if what you're saying is true, that means these christian extremists care only about planned parenthood (could you provide some other examples of "abortion clinics" beyond PPH?) “
Once again, you’re the only one who keeps bringing up PPH. Since you don’t even read your own sources, it doesn’t surprise me that you didn’t rest the source I gave in the original comment.
>> That's ironic, since I did and you didn't follow up to see what the article was talking about: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61932963
This is one of the clinics that your article references. A "Family Planning" Clinic which provides -only- abortion. Yet, you're lopping them into the same categorization as PPH which offers more than just abortion. Yet, they're being closed down.
Still, the burden is on you to show that *all* clinics are being closed.
Christians are mad because that even though the clinics have been made illegal, they're still up in other states without consequence and people just seek to get abortions there.
The funny part about that? They're trying to prevent people from traveling in other states. Kinda sounds like Soviet Russia. "Papers please." Christofascists man.
But of course, this isn't about keeping it out of your state, it's about controlling women. *wink*

Try reading it and then show me where it mentions Planned Parenthood or Christians causing clinics to close.

>> I have to admit that when we began this discussion, I was already steps ahead of you. I was simply too focused on being at the end than at the start. We see people trying to close down PPH because they think it's simply an abortion clinic, and because they think that, PPH has to shut down in spite of the other services that they provide. Simply to avoid legal entanglements from litigious Christofascists seeking to exert their beliefs onto others.

But hey, at least you tried.

>> Nope
— Once again you are doing the very thing you accuse Christians of doing with a baseless allegation.

>> Which ones, exactly? "Clinics" is ambiguous.
— Lets just say they are the ambiguous “clinics” you refer to in your meme.

>> . . . This is one of the clinics that your article references. A "Family Planning" Clinic which provides -only- abortion.
— So, you found a clinic in “my article” and then accuse me of being ambiguous? You’re flip flopping all over the place trying to untangle your web of lies.

Yet, you're lopping them into the same categorization as PPH which offers more than just abortion. Yet, they're being closed down.
— Again, where in your meme did you specify PPH? YOU are the one being ambiguous.

Still, the burden is on you to show that *all* clinics are being closed.
— How is it my burden, especially since I never claimed that *all* clinics are being closed?

Christians are mad because that even though the clinics have been made illegal, they're still up in other states without consequence and people just seek to get abortions there.
— So now the “clinics” are being made illegal? I thought just the abortion service they offered was made illegal. But this is just your opinion with no basis in fact. Are you claiming that only Christians oppose the practice of abortion? What about Jews? You’re sounding like AOC https://ground.news/article/aoc-slams-fundamentalist-christians-who-oppose-killing-babies-via-abortion

The funny part about that? They're trying to prevent people from traveling in other states.
— Who is “they”? You’re making all kinds of baseless assumptions like, the government leaders doing this are all Christians.

>> . . . We see people trying to close down PPH because they think it's simply an abortion clinic, and because they think that, PPH has to shut down in spite of the other services that they provide.
— Let me tell ya a little about PPH. When my wife was a med school intern, she signed up for a rotation at a PPH facility thinking that, because they perform other services, she could abstain from prescribing abortions and let someone else handle such requests. When they found out she wouldn’t involve herself in the abortion services, they asked her to leave. So, although technically they do other health services, abortions are their mainstay and the only reason they exist. And they don’t want anything to do with people who oppose it.

Thanks for playing but you loose 😂

"— Let me tell ya a little about PPH..."
Same.

When I was 21, my g/f and I found out she was pregnant. We had immediately considered abortion because we were still in school. We went to PPH and we were given counsel. That is, they heard our decision, respected it, but wanted to have an appointment to check finances before having the procedure. Through PPH, we found that having a child was actually feasible. It was at this point, they we decided that we would keep the child -

*gasp* PPH HELPED SOMEONE KEEP A CHILD?! The right wing would never believe it because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Anyway, not only this, but they helped us find resources that could further augment our arsenal of options available to us in making sure that we have what we need to keep a child. We did a double check on the doctor and the nurse by calling their hotline to make sure that this person wasn't a wolf in sheep's clothing (even though our minds were already made) and they were on the level. We did this check to feel even better about the experience we had, that it was genuine and not some attempt at sabotaging our initial decision.

As for your person you reference? I've worked in the medical field. I do know for a fact that if something is in your job description, you are expected to perform it. From the sounds of it, she may not have been very forward with her issue, especially knowing what duties they perform there.

For instance, when I was doing my externships, we had to do medical examinations on large swaths of students at a time. This included cleaning va**nal speculas and testing large amounts of urine for drugs/infections. This was done in a small little room with no AC. The thing is? Everyone had to do it. You had to do your share regardless of how much you may have disliked it. I imagine that was the situation here.

Actually, she thought PPH was a whole health clinic and abortion was just one of many services they provided. She wanted to learn about it to better serve her patients, but didn’t want to be the one writing “day after” prescriptions or sticking probes in the head of partial births abortions to kill the “fetus”.

When she told me about it, I kind of laughed knowing that PPH’s claim to fame is abortions. She had no idea at the time and, although she wanted to learn about the abortion process as part of her training, they demanded that it was all or nothing. In other words, they didn’t like the idea that someone who didn’t embrace abortion as a family planning method, being part of their staff. It’s kind of like banning Jehovah's Witnesses from practicing any type of medicine at a hospital because they don’t want to take part in blood transfusions or blood donations.

The point is, PPH is in fact an abortion clinic. They even refer to themselves as such on their website. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/blog/what-are-crisis-pregnancy-centers

And, although no PPH clinics have completely shut down since the court ruling, it’s because they already closed clinics in anticipation when the decision was leaked.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jul/05/facebook-posts/no-planned-parenthood-clinics-have-closed-abortion/

Can't really get into the whole reply at the moment. But I will offer this. The reason they call themselves "a real abortion clinic" is because there are clinics disguised as abortion clinics who seek to change the minds of those who have already made them to get them out of getting an abortion through the use of extreme propaganda.

This is a known fact.

It’s also a known fact that PPH counselors been caught giving false information and pushing for rushed abortions while stressing the down side to babies – midnight feedings, diapers, money, the bad economy, the “burden” of adoption, etc.
This is the extreme propaganda that PPH uses on its victims. So any finger pointing they do at these “fake clinics” is just hypocrisy.

Source?

https://www.jillstanek.com/2010/04/planned-parenthood-caught-on-tape-misinforming-pushing-abortion/
Cue the automatic “not a reliable source response” 😂

Excerpt from your article:
"In this video the PP counselor states a preborn baby at 6-8 weeks of age has “no legs, no arms, no head, no brain, no heart,” which is false, false, false, false and false. She makes the nonsensical statement, “The fetus is the developing embryo inside you,” which would normally make me laugh if we weren’t talking life or death here…."

www.nhs.uk: "The embryo is curved and has a tail, and looks a bit like a small tadpole. The heart can sometimes be seen beating on a va**nal ultrasound scan at this stage. The developing arms and legs become visible as small swellings (limb buds)."

I don't even need to check the validity of the website to see that the content is misleading garbage... What the PP counselor said is accurate in that the legs, arms head, brain and heart are not developed.

So yeah, your cue is I guess accurate because you post bullshit knowing it's bullshit. 🤣

You should really try reading your sources before citing them.

Now, let’s review the two sources.
https://www.jillstanek.com/2010/04/planned-parenthood-caught-on-tape-misinforming-pushing-abortion/
“the PP counselor states a preborn baby at 6-8 weeks of age has “no legs, no arms, no head, no brain, no heart,”

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/week-by-week/1-to-12/6-weeks/
“By the time you're 6 to 7 weeks pregnant, there's a large bulge where the HEART is and a bump at the head end of the neural tube. This bump will become the BRAIN and HEAD.
The embryo is curved and has a tail, and looks a bit like a small tadpole. The HEART can sometimes be seen beating on a va**nal ultrasound scan at this stage.
The developing ARMS and LEGS become visible as small swellings (limb buds). Little dimples on the side of the HEAD will become the ears, and there are thickenings where the eyes will be.”

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/week-by-week/1-to-12/7-weeks/
“By 7 weeks, the embryo has grown to about 10mm long from head to bottom. This measurement is called the crown-rump length.
The BRAIN is growing rapidly and this results in the HEAD growing faster than the rest of the body. The embryo has a large forehead, and the eyes and ears continue to develop.
The inner ears start to develop, but the outer ears on the sides of the HEAD will not appear for a couple more weeks.
The limb buds start to form cartilage, which will develop into the bones of the LEGS and ARMS. The arm buds get longer and the ends flatten out – these will become the hands.
Nerve cells continue to multiply and develop as the brain and spinal cord (the nervous system) starts to take shape.”

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/week-by-week/1-to-12/8-weeks/
“By the time you're 8 weeks pregnant, your baby is called a foetus, which means offspring.
The LEGS are getting longer. The different parts of the leg are not properly distinct yet. It'll be a bit longer before the knees, ankles, thighs and toes develop.
The foetus is still inside its amniotic sac and the placenta is continuing to develop, forming structures that help attach the placenta to the wall of the womb.”

Nice try but, once again, you made a complete fool of yourself. 😂😂😂

You forgot something...
"...This BUMP WILL become the brain and head..."
"...but the outer ears on the sides of the head WILL NOT appear for a couple more weeks."
"...The LIMB BUDS start to form cartilage, which will develop into the bones of the legs and arms..."
"By the time you're 8 weeks pregnant, your baby is called a foetus, which means offspring.
The legs are [getting] longer. The different parts of the leg are NOT properly distinct yet. It'll be a bit longer BEFORE the knees, ankles, thighs and toes develop."

I guess reading isn't your strong suit?

Also, it's not hypocrisy. They aren't pretending to be a clinic when they in fact aren't.

They are lying to and misleading their clients, pressuring them to go through with an abortion. How is that any different than what they accuse other clinics of doing?

Still have yet to see evidence of that.

Nope, I'm genuinely asking for direct evidence that is irrefutable. You haven't provided any.

PPH does not refer to themselves as an "abortion clinic".

Reread what you have posted.

Looking for a real abortion clinic or sexual health center in your area?

Not "we are an abortion clinic."

They ask if you're looking for one. The URL even says abortionfinder. NOT comegetyourabortionhere.org.

You should go back to you high school and apologize to your English teacher for having failed to critically read.

"LOL
So, I see that you’ve ceded the argument since you’ve resorted to having my comments deleted by a Mod.
I wonder how long before *this* comment gets removed for “slander”.
LOL"

No, I realized that there's no speaking rationally with you. So I just stopped talking to you. I saw you started using ad hominem, so I hit the flag button and washed my hands of the conversation.

Thanks for the free rent.