The flu pandemic 1918+ in the US occurred and ended without a vaccine. Many people died, the infected that did not die developed natural immunity. Some never got infected or got infected but were asymptomatic. Over time the "Spanish" flu diminished into a virus that is till around but far less lethal. There is no reason to believe Covid19 won't follow this path.

Actually only 50% of Americans got Spanish Flu and 685,000 died out of a total population of about 100 million.

And why did the other 50% not get it?

Not exposed or immune

The difference is people took the 1918 virus was far more lethal and, as a result, it didn’t take long for hospitals to fill up to capacity that other pubic buildings were made into makeshift hospitals. As a result, people tended to take that pandemic to more seriously than they did COVID-19. Not to mention that there wasn’t a source of communication that allowed dissenting widespread misinformation to scramble any legitimate information.

Lost in all the talk about covid survival rates is the fact that many who do survive suffer debilitating aftereffects which they have to live with for the rest of their lives. But the antivaxxers never mention this.

Often lost in all the talk account the vaccine are the dangers posed by the vaccine itself. But, the pro-vaxxers never mention this.

Probably because the dangers are rare and minimal.

I’ll be the judge of that where my my own health is concerned.

You get your choice as to what is best for you personally, and I get the same choice.

True, and you’re aware that some people, vaccinated or not, are more susceptible to the virus. Which means, as you’ve chosen to not vaccinate - which is your right - that you’ll have to continue to wear masks in public as well as endure seasonal lockdowns and quarantines until a significant portion of the population continue to wear masks.

“…you’ll have to continue to wear masks in public as well as endure seasonal lockdowns and quarantines until a significant portion of the population continue to wear masks.

Not in my state I won’t. We have a good Governor.

It is worth noting that, yes, the vaccines are not as effective in regards to curving the infection rate among the vaccinated. This is largely due to the Delta variant, which is a more infectious and deadly variant. Variants in viruses are common, but if they are allowed to spread without vaccinations, without mandates, it can lead to mutations that are even deadlier and more infectious. Worse, these new variants could completely nullify the effectiveness of the vaccines.

If that does happen, it is unlikely your governor will remain so stubborn to ignore basic medical protocols in the middle of a dangerous pandemic. If their negligence is exposed, they may even be forced to resign.

Not likely. Our governor has the overwhelming support of the citizens of our state.

Not if they’re dead.

😂 Well then I guess it’s a good thing that they won’t all be dead then isn’t it?

Oh, they won’t all be dead. No, I wouldn’t be so alarmist to say that. It is very unlikely to get more than 10% annually. By then, they may reconsider their political choices if they do not reflect the reality of their situation.

Unless you’re in Florida. ;)

Then, we’re all doomed since the “vaccine” does not protect us from mild cases of Covid, and neither do the masks!

F**k… might as well enjoy life while I can! 🙂

It does, actually. A majority of those hospitalized and die from covid are the unvaccinated. A conservative estimate of the percentage of unvaccinated covid victims who are hospitalized is 90%. Furthermore, covid symptoms among the vaccinated are milder and the window of spreading the infection is smaller anywhere between a fourth to half as short as unvaccinated.

The vaccinated are still getting covid. That’s the point.

We can’t hide from covid, so we have to learn to live with it.

For me, that does not include getting possibly endless mRNA vaccines.

No, thank you.

Yes, the vaccinated are getting covid, but a majority of those hospitalized and die from covid are the unvaccinated.

Public Health England published a report last week which gave us this data for the period of August 9th to September 5th. Here is the table of deaths broken down by vaccination status and age.

This shows that of 2,381 deaths in this period, 1,659 or 69.7%, more than two thirds, were in the double vaccinated. Six hundred deaths or 25.2% were in the unvaccinated.

Remember, this is from the same study you’re referencing. Your chart is on page 15, this comes from page 18.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018416/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_37_v2.pdf

In my age group, there were about 20 deaths out of 100,000 people for unvaccinated people that tested positive for Covid. This works out to approximately a 0.02% chance of death.

And… Those 20 deaths would include people with comorbidities.

So, taking into account my general good health and lack of any comorbidities, my own personal risk factor is even lower than that.

Yes, but you’re still capable of catching and spreading the virus to other people.

If you’re living with people who do not have good health or commorbidities, then they may get sick. They may have it worse if they’re also not vaccinated.

True, even if they are vaccinated and you’re not, their danger is minimum but you will increase their chances vaccinated.

And, of course, no one expects you to remain masked at all times if you do live with such individuals.

Maybe not just your house but your place of business or your customers, etc.

But heck, maybe you’re one of the lucky ones. Some work from home kind of person who has no one to infect or in danger if you do.

What is “Sticks and stones.”

Your username is Gumshoe, but it might as well just be “Karen”.

Sticks and stones.

The full report.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018416/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_37_v2.pdf

So, this is interesting data as it does two very important things. It provides a window, and a recent one, that points to the effectiveness of the vaccines. Overall, with the exception of those age 60 and over, the majority of deaths are still among the vaccinated.

Further charts still indicated a significant majority of deaths and hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. I’ll provide the charts that support this.

Still interesting.

That has no affect on my personal health situation, which is good.

So, your fear-mongering does not work with me.

Facts aren’t fear-mongering.

Nope. Fear mongering IS what you are doing.

I’m sorry you’re afraid of facts but just because you are does not mean I’m fear-mongering.

At best, I’m skeptical that you did the research, talked to your doctor, listened to your doctor, and made the decision to not get the vaccine based on rational conclusions.

But, my plan isn’t to force you into getting the vaccine but rather prepare you for the worst case scenario. Unfortunately, as you’re among the unvaccinated, your chances of being hospitalized due to covid if you’ve not had any prior exposure to the antibodies, are higher than you think.

Maybe you have already been exposed to covid and have antibodies. If so, you probably won’t be hospitalized. I hope that is true, and I hope what you’ve told me is true, and I hope you don’t live to regret your decision to not get one of the vaccines nor die as a result of it.

But I guess that’s just me being a fear-mongerer again. Hoping you and other unvaccinated don’t die.

Again… Where did I say I was afraid of facts?

I told you facts.

You called me fear-mongerer.

My assumption was made thus.

Where did I say I was afraid of facts?

I said:

“So, your fear-mongering does not work with me.”

You are the one here trying to scare people into getting a vaccination like it’s your job.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

Where's the deaths by medical error? Hidden away in unintentional injuries?

Well, medical error can be anywhere between 40,000 to 80,000 a year. So it certainly qualifies. I couldn’t find the estimate for 2020, but found one for 2019 which would be too low to place on the list.

https://news.yale.edu/2020/01/28/estimates-preventable-hospital-deaths-are-too-high-new-study-shows

I don’t think that’s why it’s not included. One reason might be that their are too many conflicting reports of medical error to narrow it down to an accurate number by year. There may be too many numerous variables to define it accurately but I think the real reason is because the underlying cause of death is listed whether medical error is attributed or not. So if medical error was the sole reason, it may have its own category and too low to list.

The chart even states that it’s focus is the underlying cause. So, it’s unlikely to be listed unless it was a direct cause. For example, if you were hypothetically misdiagnosed for a benign tumor but then died of cancer, your number would be attributed to cancer rather than medical error.

Most likely.

Taking into consideration my age, and my generally good health, I am going to place my trust in my immune system.

My personal health decision regarding Covid is not the government’s to make.

As they have been chanting at football games this year: “F**k Joe Biden”.

Have you spoken to your doctor?

Yes. I came to my decision after consulting with him at my annual physical about month ago.

What did he say about the vaccine?

He said it was not without risk.

I'm sure he did. Quite right.

Did he explain that the risk of catching covid and dying was higher than getting a vaccine and dying?

No, actually he said that given my generally healthy condition, my risk of dying from COVID was EXTREMELY low.

But he still suggested you get vaccinated, yes?

No. He gave me the information, and said the choice was mine.

I'm sure he did.

👍🏻

I’ve been seeing the same doctor for over 40 years. We have an honest relationship.

A lot of antivaxxers don't believe in doctors. They think they know it all themselves. 😜

Oh, I am not an anti-vaxxer. I get vaccinations. I get the flu shot every year.

I’m just not getting THIS vaccine.

Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday appeared to throw in the towel on more government restrictions over COVID-19 — insisting it’s now up to Americans to make their own medical risk assessments.

“This is not going to be eradicated, and it’s not going to be eliminated,” Fauci told ABC’s “This Week.” “And what’s going to happen is that we’re going to see that each individual is going to have to make their calculation of the amount of risk that they want to take.”

Awesome.