Have we gone too far?

No. Absolutely not. Some experts are saying that every death after 100,000 could have been mitigated had we completely shut the country down for a shorter period of time. So yeah

These the same 'experts' that told people not to wear masks so they could hoard them? The same 'experts' that said '15 days to flatten the curve'? The same 'experts' that now say a vaccine isn't enough so you still have to wear masks and social distance until 2022?

Whatever you say, just remember that Trump didn't do anything the experts asked of him, so we really won't know if their predictions were correct

Didn't do anything asked of him. Do you really think your hyperbole works on anyone over 12? I can't take you seriously.

Fauci predicted in March that the death toll would reach 200,000 by the end of the year. Trump predicted in May that it would kill 80,000 to 100,000. The President constantly downplayed Coronavirus through tweets. He said to media 'we have it under control', and 'we already have a plan, it will be fine'. The infection rate and death toll are only slightly lower than the estimates if nothing had been done. He praised China's 'efforts and transparency'. You heard that right. Praised China for transparency. So much for 'China Joe'. February was a mix of downplaying the pandemic and blaming it on the Democrats. He spent March telling people to take hydroxychloroquine and predicted that the trajectory of the virus would come to a halt. He also compared coronavirus to the flu. You always say that the flu killed more in 2018 than corona has killed. In 2018, the flu killed 61,000 people. Covid has killed 2,804,907 people. Say for yourself which one is bigger. And a Covid death is anyone who was tested positive and died 28 days after the test without a clear other cause. So the chances are that there are more Covid deaths that we know of, because many people were not able to get tested in the early and middle days of the pandemic. he said that if the death toll is under 200,000, he will have done a very good job. The death toll is not under 200,000.

Suffice to say, I don't think he handled the pandemic very well

See, now you are deflecting from my point. You're gonna tell me in all those conferences with Fauci and the like, working with them for months, albeit with differences of opinion, that Trump never listened to them once?

Why would he? He implemented very few of the policies suggested. You may say that red states do better with Corona. Never have. The blue states have generally done better, and they tend to have high population density. And, given that the politics stream now spends their time just saying that "libturds 'r' dum" and "Fauci is trying to control us!", I doubt that Trump ever took Fauci very seriously

first of all, for those who don't know me, i'm a practicing enzymologist and a professor of chemistry and biochemistry. among bona fide scientists, there's little dissenting opinion on this topic. the fact that over half a million Americans have died as have almost 3 million people worldwide should make it obvious. not nearly enough has been done, and the early carelessness from the former administration is what allowed the virus to thrive in the US.

Trump was warned in 2019 and did not take swift action. he had already disbanded the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in 2018. Mitch, as the majority leader of the Senate, was not even aware of the existense of the Pandemic response playbook created by the Obama administration. the polarization of political parties during the previous 20 years completed the 'perfect storm' of our unreadiness to deal with the threat.

what should have been done? NOT disband the vital safeguard created specifically for such emerging threats (and obviously NOT disregard the playbook). an early and strict lockdown as well as thorough contact tracing throughout the first two months to identify and isolate the infected Americans (as the most successful countries actually did for their own citizens). advertise more vigorously the nature of the problem and the absolute need for appropriate response tactics (distancing, masks, limiting congregation). put educated and experienced professionals in charge and LET THEM BE IN CHARGE. if all of that had been done, we could have held the loss in life to far smaller numbers. the idea that almost all of the dead have been senior citizens with preexisting health issues is morally indefensible and small comfort to their families.

what should we be doing now? TAKING IT EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY. the fight is far from over. effective vaccines are available but only about half the US population is undergoing innoculation so far. if tens of millions decline vaccination, it puts thousands more at risk. many people are still being infected and many are dying daily. don't argue percentages. save lives by minimizing the spread and especially by getting vaccinated. DON'T spread nonsense as some of the people in this thread are doing. it only encourages others to believe the nonsense and spread it themselves. listen to the CDC and your doctor, and NOT to your friends who happen to share your opinions. thanks for asking and for reading.

Glad to have your opinion, distinguished as you are! What university, if you don't mind me asking?

let's keep that a secret

Understandable.

True

3 million is what percent of the population of the earth(assuming the numbers aren’t highjacked)? And what makes Americans more susceptible to this virus than the rest of the world, politics? Conservatives?

Btw, enzymes are produced by bacteria, viruses are not. You are not a virologist. And using anti bacterial hand sanitizer on a virus is about as effective as wearing a mask that breaks up these airborne particles into smaller more airborne pieces.

viruses use enzymes, just like people and bacteria. i've studied the protease enzymes of covid and HIV in grisly detail. you know a few facts and you're trying to parlay them into some kind of position. when you do that, truly informed people will recognize it for what it is. i didn't suggest anything about using hand sanitizer, but washing hands thoroughly with ordinary soap and hot water works well at disinfection. the chief protection offered by cheap masks is their ability to restrict coughs and sneezes to shorter range. expensive masks have filters that can protect the wearer.

Americans are not more susceptible than anyone else, but they are exposed to a larger number of infected people, thanks to non-maskers and people who spread false information with such confidence.

I admit there are things I do not know (truly informed people do not usually have to point that out), but there are also things I do, and one of those things is that masks and lockdowns do not work. Since you study these things, what happens to your NK cells and leukocytes in general when you hide from germs (I'm assuming you do basic blood work)? Also, have you learned much of what causes auto immune diseases? Coughing or sneezing into your elbow has the same effect. What I expel should stay out, too, for my health.

yes I am nearly pointing out the people who think that they are doing something by killing off all their bacteria every 20 minutes bad and good.

Naturally, America is one of the larger countries.

I acknowledge your position as an enzymologist, but you are clearly not a political scientist. When the people allow the government to be involved, and biassed media to report on things like covid, you get fascists, and Trump is not a fascist (Fascism is a state where the people have acknowledged the government to be their saviors, and allow them to breach as many liberties as they want, and do whats necessary 'solve' the people's problems). A truly free country would present the unbiassed scientific facts and suggestions, then, if the people want to hide in their basement, suffocate themselves, or kill off the human race (hCG in vaccines) they are free to do so, and vice versa. Government control never, in the history of politics, recedes once it is given by uneducated, egoistic, and brainwashed people (See the fall of any 'great' civilization)

A side note: Covid is a symptomatic disease. The symptoms are what cause much of the complications. When the vascular system is attacked in this way, it often causes the endothelium to retract which in turn creates labored breathing, and because of the lack of oxygen people with the heart issues develop more complications. Blood thinner has proven effective, and believe it or not, laughing (which I will not go into atm as I am getting tired of typing). Disclaimer, this is a theory by myself and the studies I have made.

Veiw point: Juris Naturalist.

tldr could you shorten this by any chance no offence im just dumb lol

don't think so lol

wdym ?!

thats a lot to surmise

hmm hot take makes sense

? puzzlation

The Covid restrictions put into place have been onerous and unprecedented. No doubt. They sucked. No one wanted to do them. Jobs were lost. Life plans were scaled back, or put on hold. I understand why people are upset. Really, I do.

But, 450,000+ Americans’ lives have been cut short due to this disease. A number that big is difficult to comprehend. Analogies come to mind like: One 9/11 per day when the pandemic was at its worst. 9/11 mobilized virtually all Americans to come together; sadly, the pandemic only divided us further.

Plus: an unknown number are still living, but have been physically maimed by Covid in different ways or are suffering from “long Covid.”

Were the precautions overdone? Human life is the most precious commodity of all. A life lost, unlike a job, can’t be regained. Postponed weddings and such will still take place. But dead people have no future at all. So, I can’t conclude they were overdone. All the epidemiologists are saying we should have done more. I refer everyone to Heavencanwait’s excellent and detailed response here.

Other point: Some here are complaining at the fact scientists said X thing about the Covid pandemic at one point, and said Y thing at a later date. They may have even said Z thing later. Yes, this is true.

But it is asking too much of scientists to provide a precise roadmap for how a brand-new, barely-understood, highly infectious disease is going to unfold. They are smart, but they’re not omniscient. They’re not God. You have to cut them some slack.

The progression of the pandemic depended upon unknown and unknowable factors, such as: (1) Public policy (which varies a lot state to state, and even county to county); (2) Public acceptance or resistance to said policies; (3) The emergence of variants in various places around the world; (4) The timeline of vaccine development and rollout.

All the estimates turned out to be sadly off the mark, in the wrong direction. The disease was *more* contagious and deadly than anyone thought.

450,000+ American lives were lost, even *with* all the restrictions so many chafed at. How much worse would it have been with minimal or no restrictions at all? Something to think about.

Yes, because it's essentially the flue

it's 20 times more deadly. It has the same death rate as Spanish flu which wasn't locked down and killed 50,000,000 people

yes cause lock downs do nothing. I had this 'deadly' thing and so did my elderly grand parents and my whole family. they get more sick from the bad weather than this. stop repeating what you see on TV and look into it yourself.

not everyone is the same as you, smooth brain

or anyone else I know apparently. oh and get this, not everyone labeled as a covid death has even died, much less died of covid. I know someone who they said died of covid, and is alive and well to this day.

the media could tell you the sky was purple and made of hedge hogs and you'd believe it

I know 6 people who were in a hospital from what you say is the fLuE and 3 died. It’s that serious.

I know 2 and both from complications. Sad yes, but masks and lockdowns aren’t going to help. Those people who died probably would have died of flue too, in fact the guy I know that did die had covid flue and pneumonia at the same time. He was clear to go home before he died. 80 year old man.

They took flu and COVID tests.COVID positive flu negative. Except two of the survivor had both positive. If less people who carry the virus are around in public, less people get sick. See, 2 plus 2 equals 4

Do you know what happens to your immune system when you hide from germs?

When you hide from ALL germs. I am literally 100% immune to flu and strep, so idc. People like you are the reason the pandemic is still going strong.

lock down IS hiding from all germs. I never get sick either, and I live a healthy life (which includes regular exposure to germs to teach my body how to react). the general cure for anything is to live a healthy life style.

Ok. Let me explain further. When dumb people go outside in public without a mask on, they are putting others at risk. Sure, its a small risk for most, but not for all. Those with lung cancer and old age have high risks of severe symptoms. EVERYBODY has to get outside and get necessities no matter who they are. When idiotic teenager go in public without a mask because it makes them look ReBeLiOuS, they are unnecessarily creating danger. I never said that lockdowns were necessary, so idk why you’re using that as a defense. Just wear a freaking mask. It isn’t hard and it can save lives.

ill follow cuz u have a brain

the point is it doesn't save lives, and what I breath out should stay out not go back in (a plethora of diseases come from the very same). the only thing a mask stops is spit flying out of your mouth when you cough or sneeze, which is just as effectively accomplished by having manners and doing so into your elbow; the microscopic covid bugs go through the mask like dust in through chainlink fence.

you might add that surgeons wear masks, but if they accidentally brush their GLOVED hand against it, they have to throw it away and scrub up again. Even then its more to keep the spitting and guts of mutually. So tell me how effective these pieces of crap that you shove in your pocket, pull on and off and salivate in all day. it is not a sign of rebellion, it is an acton of right. once a government takes a right, the people NEVER get it back (see 1913 income tax for one) basic historic political and economical studies will tell you that.

your welcome😘

the "your" vs "you're" was for teenagers sake, because you need something to pick on. enjoy

Well first of all covid is not bugs. It isnt alive. It's a virus that spreads on droplets of water molecules. The mask, if made properly, stops the water molecules from coming through. And if not wearing a mask is a right, then denying access to your business to those not wearing masks busines.

you are 99.9999% correct. the virus is actually encapsulated by an oily molecule and why it is important to use soap when washing.

I know that -_- neither is the stomach 'bug' and the mask actually shreds those molecules where as your elbow doesn't

My body my choice. And your last sentence is incoherent, but I think you're trying to say, that the business can rightfully require masks if I can rightfully deny them. In essence, I agree, but I still do not agree that masks do anything but introduce disease into your own mouth. Masks become a cesspool of bacteria that should get out and stay out.

Study the body itself before you study a disease, otherwise you get a disproportionate understanding of what is actually going on in your body when sick, and what normally happens when you're not. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, but thats why they teach it in that order.

true

You cannot deny a mask and still expect to get the service from the business, just as they can raise prices and you can do nothing about it.

O

pov: your 80 years old with lung complications -_-

It's funny that you laugh at statistical facts

Show me ANY stats that show this is as deadly as the Spainish flu, which literally dissolved the lungs. What about the bubonic plague? Deadlier than that?

Ok. Average flu death rate is 0.01%. before vaccinations started covid death rate was about 3%. Spanish flu death and infection numbers are fuzzy and mostly estimates but by averaging out those estimates you get a death rate at about 4-5%. The rates aren't the same but they do show parallels if you compare the death rate of the diseases in question to the death rates of flu and other common diseases at both times. You get similar comparisons between rates. You also have to take into account the 100 year difference in medicine and the fact that major lockdowns were not enforced for the 1918 flu. Dissolves the lungs? Spanish flu triggered an immune reaction that attacked infected cells in the lungs but I would hardly call that dissolving. I never said anything about the Black Plague. The only reason it was so deadly was because no one understood how it worked, everyone had shit hygiene, and it was the 1300s so there weren't any real doctors but that is a conversation for another day.

I was joking about the plague obviously, for the points you made, but the Spanish flu killed healthy people in the 20-40 age range where this flu has a 99.7% survival rate and mainly kills the elderly with multiple health issues, like obesity and diabetes.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vs-flu/art-20490339

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/09/trump-coronavirus-deadly-downplayed-risk-410796

oh lookie who showed up to the party. you're late.

I had covid. have you? its basically the flue.

true

itz basically the flu but if your around 50+ you could possibly just straight die. Allso even if you probobly 30+ and have lung conditions you could also be severly and perminatly scared and hurt.

which is why you live a healthy life, so you don't have those problems.

and if you had it, you spread it... maybe to someone who died or who passed it to someone else who did... you should be proud.

I did have it lol and it was the valentines day before last, over a year ago, and no, no one in my whole county died until a month ago. and it was a man in his 80s with several previous transplants and conditions, aNd he had covid, flue, and pneumonia all at the same time, he got better then died the day he was sent home 😘 I knew this man personally and he went on his own terms (wouldn't you know.. he was wearing a mask years before covid came along). the other man was a similar had heart troubles and passed long after he was out of covid. I knew him too and I miss both of them but I live in a huge county and when there are 40 cases a month for this whole county im not too concerned. also my elderly grandparents had it, and they are alive and well today.

the moral of the story is that the only cure for a virus is to live a healthy lifestyle (my grandmother was riding a race horse till he died when she was 67, then she rode mine occasionally)

My Uncle and cousin , two friends, and the family doctor are dead. sftu and wear your mask.

good for them, they wont have to see the downfall of this country. I envy them. and no I will not shut up and wear a mask (some people cant you know) masks are stupid. whats more is I know someone who died of it, but is not even dead

lol I appreciate your concern for my mental sanity, but it is wasted on me. you are too selfless, pay yourself some well earned attention, and cutout the baby talk.

im not selfish, I have common sense and a higher knowledge of the body and its workings than the average person. I am not a panicker, I plan to life a life.

crazy

if thats true im so sowyy. ;,(
True wear a mask lol