The charade has gone on too long. Trump will never climb down from it, as he’s incapable of admitting any error.

If they start a civil war, I for one am ready to fight to defeat them.

I hope it doesn’t come to that, but.

In order to protect democracy, we have to want it as bad as the fascists want it destroyed.

The liberals in Germany who stood aside and let Hitler win stand as a cautionary tale. Fascists don’t have to constitute a majority to win: they just have to appear larger than they are by using violence, intimidation, the help of fellow-traveler conservatives or even moderates unwilling to stand up to them, and in our modern era, social media.

Well, let's hope the civil war stays cold. In that sense, it's already time to fight.

Yes, the fighting so far is all online. And I hope it stays that way.

I still think there will be isolated right-wing terror incidents too. If so we’ll document them and shame them but remember, time is on our side here. The election is on our side. Serious institutions are on our side. The military leadership is on our side despite Trump’s efforts to butter up “the generals.” Push comes to shove, even elected Republicans will be on our side — since being branded as traitors and possibly losing their jobs and going to prison is not in their self-interest.

The other side has Trump, Giuliani, Powell, Flynn, the Proud Boys and other such fascist militant groups, and online MAGA rabble, basically.

I favor our odds.

I’m pretty much done with the high road as it relates to these lunatics.

Time to get gully.

Imagine being on the other side of the political isle from people like you. We are very often called Nazis and racists because we disagree on economic policy (how does free market = killing Jews!?), and we very often can't speak our opinion to even our longtime friends anymore or they will assume you are a hateful person and cut you out of their lives. We only can speak our voices behind these internet accounts to people we don't even know.

Speaking only for myself, I can say I have no problems with discussing issues like tax, trade, healthcare, foreign policy, religious liberty, gay rights, abortion with those who disagree. Trump and his wholesale reality-distortion field is something different.

I actually didn’t vote for HRC in ‘16 (I voted Johnson) and I forgave and overlooked Trump’s nonsense for far longer than some of my other liberal friends.

I did not believe even Trump was a fascist until about midway through 2019 when we found out he tried to strong-arm a foreign leader into digging up dirt on a political adversary (Biden, as it so happened). Since then, his tendencies have only gotten worse. The Impeachment that wasn’t was a disaster — featuring no key Administration witnesses let alone the President himself, unlike Clinton’s impeachment. His Covid response and downplaying has been abysmal. His failure to accept the results of the 2020 election may be his lowest point yet.

Real mature politicians acknowledge defeat and setbacks, urge unity, encourage their supporters to plan for the future. They give concession speeches like Romney gave in ‘12 or McCain gave in ‘08. Or that HRC gave in ‘16. And they do so promptly after the race being called.

So, don’t want to be called a fascist? Don’t support a fascist. Support the GOP moving back in a saner direction.

It’s pretty simple.

By the way, yes, we are called Commies all the time by righties even though we’re not and we are supposed to just take it. If we can put up with that crap without it even being true, then so can you when the shoe fits.

I can tell you have good intentions, and i know how easy it is to dislike Trump's character. He is the stereotypical Ney-Yorker.he has a big mouth. He can be really stupid. But in the end, he is trying to make America better and protect our rights. Being compared to the Nazis who murdered millions of jews for that is just awful.

Trump’s policy of deliberate cruelty to children on the border resembles Nazi tactics. There was also the kidnappings of protestors this summer by unmarked feds. Trump is much more effusive in his praise of leaders like Kim Jong Un, Putin, and Duterte than his liberal counterparts like Merkel whom he frequently trashes. Finally, the refusal to accept an election that didn’t go his way. In this way alone he fails the basic test of democracy.

More evidence of misconduct may come to light when he leaves office and is no longer protected by “executive privilege” (scare quotes because he’s claimed far more executive privilege than he is truly entitled to).

The problem is that leaders with fascist tendencies tend to take over unless vigorously countered. Labeling them as such is appropriate, even before they start firing up the gas ovens (Hitler didn’t start with extermination camps, either. But by the time he did it was too late).

If you feel rhetorically caught in the crossfire, sorry, but maybe you should reconsider your support for him.

Sry for all the typos i had to type fast

He's really not a facial though. As for dirt on Biden's abuse of power, Trump didn't force anyone to dig that up. Biden BRAGGED about it. Also, this election is different than the others. 1st, People were calling for him to concede long before it was over. 2nd, instead of evidence of voter fraud being investigated and proven or disproven appropriately, anyone who brought up real evidence got shamed and censored for questioning election security (I guess they are unhackable, and no Russian collision happened in 2016!) and not surrendering to the masses. 3rd, I don't believe Trump should concede until it is all properly handled, but also agree he should have looked into Sydney Powell's claims better and realized they were too far out with no real evidence to back it. Neglecting that has made this whole situation so much worse. Finally, much more is on the line this election. I honestly fear the democrats taking office. If they take power, we will lose our 2A rights to bear arms, leaving us defenseless against a tyrant. Censorship of the right will continue to rise with nobody in power really able to call it out. Here's some food for thought, which side is the one who will shame anyone for not agreeing and censor their voices, the "Facist" Republicans or the wonderful Democrats?

Censorship of fascists isn't necessarily a bad thing.

But he isn't freaking Facist! You missed the point, btw. Part of Facism, by the way, was censorship of anything that didn't fit their narrative. Who does that sound like?

I'm not talking about censoring everything that doesn't fit one specific narrative, I'm talking about censoring only trump's fascist false narrative.

Trump isn't the only one being Facist. Any small twitter account Trump mentions- deleted. All strong voter fraud evidence by even normal people, especially on facebook - blocked. Anything pointing out racism or lies of the left, anything exposing scandals, anything exposing misinformation of msm - censored. You really need to consider who the Facists are.

You’re all over the place.

If you’re going to try and sell the mythical election fraud, you invalidate yourself.

Even Newsmax and Fox News is backpedaling hard because they know they’re going to get sued into oblivion for libel once Biden is sworn in.

No one is taking your guns. They fear mongered that BS with Obama and Bill Clinton. Enough already.

Nazis should be censored. The KKK should be censored. They don’t want to join society, they don’t get to partake.

1. Until a good explanation of the things we witnessed election night is given, I won't blindly believe it was secure. That's not stupidity, that's logic.

2. Dems wanting Gun control isn't a myth. Do you not remember 2017-2018?

3. For the last f-ing time, Trump is not a Nazi!!? Plain and simple! Not to mention, can you possibly justify Democrats quotes such as, "Straight Christian black people are the white people of black people" or Joe Biden's personal "You ain't black," "racial jungle," "poor kids can be as successful as white kids," etc.

You are constantly calling Trump a racist with no backing but supporting a party built off racism!

“1. Until a good explanation of the things we witnessed election night is given, I won't blindly believe it was secure. That's not stupidity, that's logic.”

The “good explanation” is that nothing happened. There was an election that was won by one side, fair and square. Same as every other election, except this time, one side was determined to undermine the public’s faith in our democratic system and the other side was Joe Biden.

“2. Dems wanting Gun control isn't a myth. Do you not remember 2017-2018?”

Gun control is a myth. There are periods when there are tragedies and politicians feign outrage but, ultimately, nothing changes.

I’ll also remind you it was Donald Trump who said, with regards to gun control, “Just take their guns and worry about due process later.”

https://youtu.be/yxgybgEKHHI

That’s a sitting president saying those words.

“3. For the last f-ing time, Trump is not a Nazi!!? Plain and simple!”

Trump might not be a Nazi, but Nazis LOVE Donald Trump.

Gotta wonder why.

As for the rest of it, Biden was never my choice. I’m not defending him or any of the dumb things he’s said, but he’s milquetoast. He’s entirely too far right for my tastes.

“You are constantly calling Trump a racist with no backing but supporting a party built off racism!”

Trump is verifiably racist. Just because you choose to not acknowledge it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

I'm talking to a brick

This is why your family thinks you’re unreasonable.

I have addressed these points to other people. Go read them. You know what my response will be. You just won't acknowledge it

*Fascist not Facial

HRC’s concession speech, given a few hours after the ‘16 race was called.

McCain’s graceful, unifying, patriotic concession speech.

I did vote for him in ‘08 in my first election.

Anyone who’s hung their hat on Trumpism and his house of lies gets whatever they deserve. If you attack politics with the same attitudes you attack an Auburn-Bama game, and not with the understanding that people’s lives and livelihoods typically hang in the balance, you’re doing politics wrong.

Trump has been the most divisive figure in modern American history. He is racist, has racist policies, and has a devout overtly-racist following...and with good reason. I have no empathy for anyone who makes apologies or excuses for him.

Beyond that, ‘conservative’ economic policies of the current incarnation of the GOP are trash. They funnel money from the poor, working and middle classes up into the hands of the ultra-wealthy. Trickle down economics is an abject failure in achieving what its stated goals are and that’s been proven time and time again.

Their social policies are just as bad. They want to trash Obamacare without having even a semblance of anything to replace it with (in the middle of a pandemic) because...*surprise!* they’re not going to replace it with anything. They load the system to favor the wealthy few and tout BS fables about pulling yourselves up by your bootstraps.

With regards to family members not wanting to speak to you anymore, I can honestly tell you it’s not a problem I personally have. My mother unapologetically voted for Trump. My father, a lifelong Republican who vowed to never vote blue as long as he lived, voted Biden because Trump was such a POS, he couldn’t reconcile voting for him. We span the political spectrum but don’t treat it like it’s the Super Bowl.

Good summary of the substantive policy failures of the GOP.

And indeed the fact some friends and family members aren’t speaking to each other these days over political differences is a sign of profound brokenness that our national leader, Mr. Trump, is primarily responsible for.

The speech excerpts I’ve posted from other recent presidential contenders who lost shows they would not have led this way, Had any of them won.

Obama talked about no red states, no blue states, only the United States. And he really meant it. By contrast all of Trump’s major decisions this year, even in the context of the pandemic, have been driven by whether he sees those states as “loyal” or not. Red states got more aid and ventilators; those led by Democrats got derision and scorn.

A special dowse of Trumpist scorn was reserved for the purple states led by Democrats which he tweeted about “liberating” in direct opposition to their local policies. This no doubt encouraged the militia rebels who plotted to kidnap Michigan Gov. Whitmer.

Probably had much to do with the fact MI swung blue harder than most other swing states. Which was good to see.

Then he predictably attacked their election process itself despite losing that state quite decisively, by 150,000+ votes.

None of this is normal. We’re not going to pretend it is.

They started acting like this under Obama. HE was a devicive president. He did not mean "No red states and blue states." He persisted in labeling anyone who disagreed with his policies as a racist or bigot instead of addressing the ideas.

The kidnapping of governor whitener has already been exposed. A small group of leftists did it proclaiming they were "following Trump's orders" just to make him look bad.

Where did you hear they were leftists trying to make trump look bad? Because that sounds like fascist D.A.R.V.O. to me.

Obama was an extremely well-spoken and cautious President. No, he did not categorically label people racists and bigots even when they were denying his citizenship (on the far right) and calling him bright and clean and articulate for a black man (some moderates; indeed, I am paraphrasing Joe Biden himself).

He has a very nuanced view on race issues due to his own mixed-race background and having traveled in many different social circles throughout his life.

Seriously, go and read (or listen to) his new memoir before you keep spouting falsehoods. The difference between how he and Trump view the world, and their political rivals/adversaries, is night and day.

His first term seemed like he'd be a uniter

His second term tore this country beyond what anything but a major culture shift can fix

Now, I'm going to get off for a while. I might get back on in a few hours. Debating multiple people at once is exhausting.

Yes it is, credit to you and for keeping it civil.

Of course I do not see it like sports. (Though on that topic, A&M deserved the playoffs) I fear what America will be by 2024 if biden gets in the office.

As for economic policy, Trump rebuilt an economy that Obama wrecked to it's strongest point ever before Covid hit.

As for racism, please point out some actual policies that are racist. I have yet to have been given one by someone calling him racist.

As for Obamacare, he did have a replacement. Saying he didn't is just a lie.

“As for economic policy, Trump rebuilt an economy that Obama wrecked to it's strongest point ever before Covid hit.”

This is provably false. Please see attached.

“As for racism, please point out some actual policies that are racist. I have yet to have been given one by someone calling him racist.”

The Muslim travel ban. The border wall. Rescinding the AFFH Act. There’s your starting point.

As far as Trump personally being a racist? Look no further than the Central Park Five or his remarks post-9/11. There’s some more starting points.

“As for Obamacare, he did have a replacement. Saying he didn't is just a lie.”

What is it? If I’m lying, you can obviously explain it or point me to a source that can. I haven’t seen a single thing about it even though he’s been promising to release the details of Trumpcare for four years.

Same as his tax returns.

How does that disprove anything?Unemployed was at it's lowest, and the GDP went up

The travel ban was not for Muslims. It was for one specific country, which was actively threatening terrorism. The border wall is to stop people from coming in illegally and getting used by cyotes. Since illegal immigration has slowed, Trump has brought in more mexican immigrants legally than Obama. Repealing the AFFH act was to keep federal government out of local issues. Not everything needs to be outsourced to the federal government. A government big enough to give you whatever you want is strong enough to take it all away from you.

As for ACA replacement:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/26/11-things-trump-has-done-to-fix-obamacare/

“How does that disprove anything?Unemployed was at it's lowest, and the GDP went up”

As they both did for the entire 8 years of Obama’s presidency after inheriting Bush’s recession.

The economy was already starting to slide after Trump’s bullshit tax cuts (and prior to the pandemic), as evidenced by the decline in 2019. Those tax cuts were supposed to stimulate growth but did the exact opposite.

Also, it should be noted that Trump promised GDP growth of “4 or 5 or even 6%” but never delivered on that promise.

With regards to Trump’s racism, you’re in denial. Maybe that’s why your family won’t talk to you.

And I’m still waiting for the details on Trumpcare, not what Trump did to tweak Obamacare.

I'm getting off for a little while. I will say this about your first point: Though it grew at a slightly lower rate than before, it wasn't in any way failing. It was still growing.

Then by your standards, it never didn’t grow under Obama.

8 years of consistent growth and 8 years of dwindling unemployment.

Perhaps because you've thrown your lot in behind a lying, cheating, abusive con man who's co-opted the principles of conservatism.

I misspelled aisle lol

We don’t typically criticize spelling. Everyone makes spelling mistakes and autocorrect can sometimes be a fickle lot. People with fully-formed frontal lobes can glean the general motivation behind your text without using it against you.

Alright

honey, get my shotgun

Don’t you believe in equality? Get your own shotgun

bro im just joking around if i ask my girlfriend to get me something real quick thats not sexist i would have to be constantly bossing her around and treating her like a servant and i dont even have a girlfriend

Bro so am i

Sounds like you are promoting one

If the white supremacists, anti-environmentalists, and Christian nationalists try to take over, I certainly plan to fight back.

Well what if the leftist socialists and their street thugs Antifa and BLM and their Black melonoid supremists try to take over?

I'd help them.

Ah so your ok with a violent takeover as long as it’s a group you support?

Yeah, sure, whatever. As long as saying so makes people like you mad.

Lol, ya I’m so angry. I do this for fun. You are entertaining me. I see you did admit that you have no convictions of right or wrong you believe it’s ok if you like the people doing it. Hypocrite much?

If you're going to take me more seriously than I take you, we're not gonna have much fun at all.

So you weren’t being serious and you would not be ok with takeover by BLM and Antifa. What did you do to stop it?

I'd wag my finger at them. Then I'd pray.