Trump is Lying While Americans Are Dying

& that is different from Biden how?

You, you know. The thing!

So, you admit Trump is a liar. Excellent.

Since everyone is a liar - so is Biden. So my original question stands - how is that different from Biden?

COVID deaths in the US are on the hands of every idiot who didn't social distance & wear their masks & didn't keep up good hygiene.

If you caught COVID - its because you thought Avacodo Toast was more important than living. If you caught COVID - its because you played Russian Roulette going out into public during a pandemic.

If you think Trump is to blame - you're special & probably lick glass & probably never take personal inventory when problems arise in your life. Just like the rioters blaming Cops & White People for problems - while ignoring that men in their culture have too many rape tendencies, murder tendencies, and crime tendencies in general.

I assure you my Trump Supporter friends had Covid before I did. And yes, I was on a respirator mid-June. It was not fun to say the least.

You honestly sound just like those morons who blamed the victims for catching AIDS during the height of that crisis in the 80s. When again, at the time we didn't know and misinformation was just as much rampant now as it was then. Misinformation about HIV and AIDS that is STILL rampant now from what my granddaughter tells me when she took Health with her fellow seniors a few years ago. People still claiming you can get HIV from toilet seats or from kissing or sharing food. It is ridiculous.

If you think I'm the only conservative who thinks Trump's behavior has been abhorrent but also negligent, and incompetent; that this crisis hasn't shown everyone Trump's inability to govern, you got another think coming. In January of this year, I knew 5 Trump Supporters. Veterans, all of them. Now, none of them are voting for Trump come November.

And I'm from a red state.

Since we are talking about COVID - do we have adequate information now? Also - you were around friends... During a Pandemic. Yes - you're the reason you got COVID. You should have social distanced better & stayed away from people.

I have a compromised immune system. When they announced lockdown - I immediately contacted my nearly 14 yr old daughter & sadly had to cancel overnight visits every other weekend. Why? Because I'm a responsible person who doesn't want to catch - or give COVID to anyone else.

Personal inventory. Made healthy choices for everyone.

Misinformation seemed to be the problem with AIDS. Not the copious amounts of unprotected sex people were having?

People got it - mainly in the 80s - because of unprotected butt-plugging by the closet homosexual community & fear of being outed as being gay. Men slept with other men & then went home to their wives & gave it to them. Its where the phrase "keep it on the down-low" began. Grown ups who watched the 60s and 70s as kids - went out & banged every tail they could.

Yes - I blame stupid people for doing stupid things & getting f'd results. When I ruined a marriage - I didn't blame anyone but myself & fell on the marital sword to make amends. Then - after that - I stopped doing stupid stuff to ruin a relationship.

You don't see me blaming Trump because I see my kid less - I don't even blame COVID either. I blame myself for being a decent human being during a pandemic.

I say we have caught more information in a shorter amount of time with COVID than we did HIV. That said, misinformation is quite rampant. Not a month goes by, it seems, that I have to remind people that COVID is not a hoax, nor is it less deadly than the flu, nor is it the flu.

There are an alarming number of Trump Supporters who believe this.

I was exposed to COVID despite the precautions I took. I was fortunate enough to be able to keep to myself and have my more exposed friends and family respect my decision to self-quarantine. However, I also had to still get supplies and on one of these runs I must've been exposed. There is no need to insult me or anyone who has the virus. There is still a chance to catch it even with all the precautions. Especially when, at the time I caught it, so many were ignoring the guidelines.

Sex was just one way people were catching AIDS. At first it was thought to just be Homosexual in nature. Only a few among us knew that that was very unlikely, but it was still widely perpetuated even after that was debunked. There were people catching it from transfusions and other medical means.

Personal responsibility is important and for the most part, I agree with you when it comes to play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But the fact of the matter is that you should never underestimate the power of ignorance. While you, yourself are responsible for your decisions, not everything that happens to you is on you. Sometimes shit happens. That doesn't mean you gotta ask for a handout. But it doesn't mean you have to blame the victim either.

I see plenty of Trump Supporters blaming everyone for the virus. Democrats, CDC, WHO, China... but not taking any personal responsibility for themselves. Are there liberals and Democrats and Never Trumpers also not taking this virus seriously? Yes, I suppose so. But until I meet one, I'll let you know.

Ok - so it rains really hard - my basement floods a bit & all of my stored items get ruined.

I did not cause the rain - but I did fail to bother getting home/renters insurance. Yes - that messed up stuff is on me.

I walk out into the street & get hit by a car. I looked both ways, I took precautions, but someone sped around the blind corner. If I rewind the situation - I chose to go shopping that day instead of painting the office. Still on me...

The AIDs epidemic - yes. Some people got it through blood transfusions... But that is a ridiculously low percentage of the 1980s AIDS crisis. It wss mostly spread and rampant through drug related sexual activity. Had those people been responsible people - they wouldn't have been high on Coke & LSD & Molly - and the epidemic would be much smaller.

Unfortunately for the homosexuals - it was more rampant in their ranks because of all the soft-tissue breaking that happens when a reproductive organ is repeatedly slammed into a digestive organ.

The fact that you have GRAND Children should have kept you at home. There are meal delivery services, grocery delivery, home products delivery, health care and beauty care products delivery.... You literally don't have to leave the house to get anything.... But you did, in a pandemic. You rolled the dice & got COVID - and got over it. Others rolled the dice & didn't get over it.

But nowhere - no when - no HOW did Trump give you that virus.

Um, no kid. You can't know that some maniac was gonna blind-side you in the street if you looked both ways.

And you can't control the weather. You can prepare for it sure, but at some point, the severity of it isn't your fault.

And I may very well have gotten the virus from one of these meal delivery services and grocery deliveries. I did those as well for a time. I actually had a 2 month stock of supplies and never saw much a need to go out until late May. Most of the craziness had died down in the grocery stores by the time I actually had to shop.

I'm not upset that Trump "gave me" the virus.

I'm disappointed at Trump's poor performance and general incompetence.

I'm disappointed at Trump's poor performance and general incompetence.

Its a 0.0005:1 odds scenario that it will kill anyone in this country.

Trumps staff mentioned social distancing. He shut town travel to China where the virus started. Trump staff mentioned masks... What incompetence was there? What poor performance?

There wasn't incompetence or poor performance - just CNN lies and delivering opinions over facts.

Yes, he shut down travel to China in March but then did diddly-squat. And even though his own recommendation for them was put out in April, he still personally flip-flopped on Masks until July. During the Coronavirus briefings he still tried to influence the experts to, prompting them to promise the virus would go away in warm weather and that a second wave was highly unlikely, but they wouldn't do it. So he started having the conferences without Fauci and Birx; especially after the bleach and ultra-violet fiasco.

You just quoted me on when he said to do stuff...after March - from left leaning news sources.

Which is it? He did something or he didn't?

I really like this debate too - we are both hitting different topic points very well & are both passionate about our sides. :)

Works better when people aren't insulting one another. Not saying you have. But it's nice that every comment isn't calling me a "libtard" or "RINO" or some other absurd name. I know I've been a little terse, but only because I can't drink coffee any more.

Lmao coffee syndrome... Me too, I get grumpy when I don't have the coffee.

I toss the occasional fun insult :)

We would have an amazing political podcast. Like friendly ribbing - two sides being represented...

"& the 5% isn't accurate... Neither is the 1% of 1%....

Corona does not have a 5% mortality rate."

You're not thinking fourth dimensionally. That was a quote from Trump back in February. And that was what the President said at the time. And at the time, yes, it did have a 5% fatality rate. In fact, at the time it was calculated to have a final fatality rate of at least 1% which is still 33 times more deadly than the flu.

It didn't have a higher death rate in the early days of COVID. It didn't get anymore or anymore less dangerous than it was in January. The reason it didnt have that at the time was that there wasn't enough data to extrapolate information from.

All we heard was China had tons of cases & there wasn't enough data to predict a death rate.

At most - Trump is guilty of over hyping the virus when he said 5% - because the death rate then was still 3% - it just hasn't been recorded.

If you want me to go on record to say he was careless to over exaggerate the death rate - then yes, I can agree with that because he did. He didn't downplay it with a 5% number - he exaggerated it.

And you admit Biden is a liar. Excellent.

Not at all. You only conceded that Trump was a liar. I don't have to concede to anything. Whataboutisms are great at pointing out hypocrisies but they only take your point so far. They don't actually undermine the initial argument. They are a weak argument unless you actually have something to compare it to and the fact of the matter is, the scope and the cost of life of Trump's lies pale in comparison to anything Biden has done.

If you agree with my question - Trump being a liar is different from Biden how? Then yes - you are conceding Biden is a liar.

Also - I didn't concede Trump was a liar - I asked how the post statement was different from Biden.

Concession in a debate doesn't end with questions. Questions start a debate.

So you're actually wrong in two ways lol.

But I didn't agree. I have, so far, remained indifferent to the answer. You did concede by instead of refuting the claim or questioning how Trump was a liar by asking how "that was different than Biden" which is an indirect concession. You question, as it was phrased, concedes the point by shifting the argument from Trump to Biden. Had you asked the question another way, such as... "Doesn't Biden lie?" this would not be a concession. Instead, your question is phrased more in the way of... "So? Biden lies too!" This is, of course, taking great liberties with your phrasing but by asking how it was different than Biden, you are starting from a premise that Trump does, in fact, lie.

So, you're actually wrong in two ways.... but I'm glad that you're willing to start a debate.

And I didn't agree with Trump being a liar. I saw someone who said Trump is a liar & asked how Biden is different.

You took upon yourself to think I agreed with the statement -but that isn't the case. So your entire first comment was a misconception - to which I tossed it right back at you.

Since I never made the statement that Trump was a liar - you assumed my intentions & thoughts on the topic -and have been responding in error from the beginning.

So two from last comments - two from previous - & the initial misconception that I agreed with the terminology ... That's 5 wrong now.

Me: 5 You: 4 more years of Trump

Well, it is a fact that Trump lies so if you are recanting your original concession in the face of facts, I can understand that. Facts don't really serve Trump or his agenda.

EVERYONE lies was my actual point early on. To worry about lies - as a basis for voting for a politician - you might as well worry about whether the Sun is HOT.

If you are worried about lies - then lets check the political Lie-O-meter

4 years of lying verses 40. Trump with 4 years - Biden with 40.

By this measuring stick - Biden loses.

So, back to conceding that Trump is a liar? Excellent.

Yes, politicians do occasionally lie. And it is much harder to find an honest politician than one who hasn't lied on at least one occasion. Equating their length of time in government with the quantities of lies told is at best erroneous. It is best to quantify the actual number of lies told, and it is entirely possible that Biden has told more lies in office than Trump has. Then again, Trump holds quite a record for number of lies told a day largely thanks to Twitter and the documentations of the lies told.

Trump has told at least 16,000 lies in the three years he's been in office.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/479041-fact-checker-counts-16k-false-misleading-claims-by-trump-in-three

That is an impressive average of 43 lies a day. If Biden has told at least that many lies as Trump in over 40 years, that would be roughly 1 lie a day.

Unfortunately, I cannot find anything definitive on how many lies, or misleading statements, that Biden has told. It would really help if someone kept up with that as much as they do with Trump.

Another way you could measure is the scope of the lie. The weight it has on the American people and how much it has cost them.

So again I ask what lie has Biden ever said, if any, that compares to the thousands of people who died because of Trump's lies about Covid-19 being no more deadly than the flu?

You're using Obama to argue data on Obama here. The Hill leans so far left they had to widen the office doors to let them in the building.

Had Twitter existed during his entire career -Biden would be on a whole 'nother level.

Which is it Biden? If blacks don't vote for you - they ain't black... Or is it segregating schools would create a jungle for his kids?

Which is it Harris? Do you believe Biden sexually assaulted many women - or is Biden what Leadership looks like?

No one died because of Trumps response to COVID. You can't use a lie to try and justify your side of the argument lmao.

"No one died because of Trumps response to COVID. You can't use a lie to try and justify your side of the argument lmao."

189,000. We held the record for most deaths for almost four months now since the pandemic began. Only now are we starting to lose that to Brazil. Is it the highest per million? No. But we're not seeing improvements. No measures are being put in place by the federal government. Their priority is to try to get a vaccine within record time on or before election day. Not for the betterment of the economy or the health of the American people but so Trump can be re-elected. His priority should be to slowing the spread of the virus and even after it's come out that he's lied, he still hasn't committed to that in 6 months after seeing little to no curve at all.

Instead he's relied on wishful thinking, and done everything to undermine the experts and to shift responsibility away from himself. That isn't what a strong leader does.

How many of those people did Trump personally inject with COVID? How many of those people made out with, was coughed on by, or otherwise directly given COVID from Trump?

Zero. Zilch. Nada...none. Not one of those 189,000 were given COVID by Trump.

Trump did say we need to stop riots & looting & social mass gatherings. Democrat buddies of Biden at state & city levels told Trump no.

Biden sat and did nothing to warn people of COVID during that 4 months. Biden is more responsible than Trump for those 189,000.

"You're using Obama to argue data on Obama here. The Hill leans so far left they had to widen the office doors to let them in the building."

The Hill is still very much regarded as conservative media. Just because you don't like what they say doesn't make it liberal.

"Had Twitter existed during his entire career -Biden would be on a whole 'nother level."

Yes, but we exist in a world where Twitter is only what? 10 years old? And you mean to tell me that it can't be quantified in 10 years which Presidential candidate lies more often than the other? I fully admit that Biden is not as unpopular as Trump for the number of people scrutinizing his every word but the difference is, we typically hold our highest representatives to the highest standards, or should. And Donald Trump, when measured, seems to fall utterly short.

You cannot compare any lie, misstatement, or flub of Biden's to Trump's willingness to downplay a virus in the middle of a global pandemic when thousands of lives were being lost a day.

I don't think that chart is very up to date. I've read items from The Hill & they didn't seem very Right Wing. They more spoke to my Democratic Values as a registered Democrat.

Only people regarding them as conservative any more are the Democrats who infiltrated their ranks to get them more left leaning.

Trump downplayed it to keep a mass hysteria happening. To which, people still were stupid and flooded the stores & we had a month long toilet paper shortage.

Trump also downplayed it because he knew the numbers of deaths didn't match up with the data on the virus. Which - turns out he was right on that one. Death by car accident? COVID. Death by lung problems? COVID. Death by kidney failure from years of drinking? COVID. Elderly and were on deaths door anyway? COVID.

Only deaths that weren't being marked COVID were Floyd & deaths that flamed the riots.

Biden & Democrat leaders sat and said nothing for 4 months while people protested & spread the virus. Biden's leadership was to sit in a bunker at home & ignore the entire event & let his voters get COVID.

That's a FAR worse problem

So you're saying 4 years of President (assumingly lying) is greater than 40 years of (assumingly) lying by Biden in politics?

Last time I checked 40 years is more than 4 years.

So, you're saying Trump never lied before he was President?

No- he definitley lies - like Biden & everyone else.

But unless Trump personally injected COVID into someone's veins - he didn't kill them. Their own choice to be social did. Blame people who didn't follow guidelines - not the person that helped put guidelines in place.

He didn't help put the guidelines in place. He told people to do whatever they wanted. And they did. And they died.

Nope. He and his staff said wear masks, social distance, and crybaby liar democrats (like you) didn't listen and went out and got COVID anyway because f**k life & f**k being healthy & f**k everyone else I will get sick...

People like you are what's wrong with the world. You complete problematic tasks & then can't handle the repercussions & then blame someone else.

Why did you get COVID? Look in a mirror.

Not a Democrat. Only ever voted for one.

I got Covid because people were still going maskless in May.

And what was the largest gathering of people in may? Rioters & looters... Who Biden never told to stop

Also - we should be lawyers. We both make a great argument

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html

Weird that was almost two months ago... Reported by CNBC.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/trump-white-house-face-masks/index.html

Back in April...he also went from no-mask to facial coverings

https://youtu.be/C_FWRVURT2s

Here we have White House Fauci (works for Trump) recommending masks.

So I see the problem with lying - you have a problem with Trump lying because you yourself are spreading lies.

Yet 8 months ago, Trump already knew how dangerous the virus was and waited 2 months to recommend masks? and 6 months to finally wear one himself.

February 7th

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/political-fallout-from-tapes-of-trump-conversations-with-bob-woodward

"You know, people don't realize, we loose 25,000, 30,000 people a year here, Bob. This is more deadly; this is five percent versus one percent in less than one percent. You know, so, this is deadly stuff."

April 4th

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/trump-white-house-face-masks/index.html

"I don't think I'm going to be doing it," he said, going on to suggest it was hard to envision such a thing in the Oval Office: "Wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens — I just don't see it."

July 11th

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-wears-face-mask-in-public-first-time-coronavirus

Finally wears a mask.

This makes no sense if he knew how dangerous the virus was, tho. Even if he was trying to not incite a panic. This is a disgrace.

& the 5% isn't accurate... Neither is the 1% of 1%....

Corona does not have a 5% mortality rate.

Cases 6.47M
Deaths 193K

5% of 6.47 Million is 323,000 or so.
That's roughly 3% mortality rate for infection to death.

Now lets look at total population. We have roughly 340 Million people in the US. 10 percent of 340 Million is 34 Million. 10 percent of that is 3.4 Million people.

So thus far -it has had a 2% infection rate to population. Of that 2% - only 3% of those infected have died.

As numbers - that's 0.02 & then three percent of that... The odds of catching COVID and dying from it are 0.0005:1

SOOOOOOOO deadly...

Fauci works for Trump. Fauci recommended Masks & social distancing back in March...

"Fauci works for Trump. Fauci recommended Masks & social distancing back in March..."

And when Trump undermined Fauci, and other experts, then he undermines his entire administration's potential progress against COVID.

Nooooo... The medical experts moved regardless of what he said. And what he said isn't numerically a problem. Its barely a problem.

We are talking aboit political people - involved in an election. So we aren't counting Trump's non political past. Biden however has 36+ years of being a political liar on Trump.

Me: 6 You: 4 more years of Trump

People are only political when they run for office? Tsk.

Here is the thing, what has Biden done, if anything, that compares to the thousands of people who lost their lives because of Trump's lies about Covid-19 being just as deadly as the flu?

Idk - I will have to add up all of the people who were ripped off by Biden promises - who were lied to - who lost their jobs during the time he promised to make more jobs. Then look at the collateral damage of those decisions over 40 years. Look at the collateral damage from 8 years being Vice President - remember when him and Obama forced poor Americans to purchase healthcare under the hammer of penalty?

Also from SNOPES

"U.S. President Trump acknowledged that COVID-19 is deadlier than the flu in early February 2020, but continued to downplay the pandemic as "like the flu" in public."

He was talking about HOW IT SPREADS.... Not THE INFECTION or DEATH rate.

At the time of speaking about it - compared to when we actually had scientific accurate data (which was recently) - the virus had yet to have enough "time on the market" to have valid statistics. At the time - it WAS akin to a regular old Flu.

People didn't lose their lives because of Trump. Had they stayed home, social distanced properly (you know instead of being rioting thugs) the virus would have passed on through our country by now. Democrats however - ferverously rioted and looted & sat elbow to elbow sweating, sneezing, coughing all over each other. Then went into their local Wal-Mart's, Dollar Generals, Pop-Eyes Chicken, banks, carwashes - well probably not car washes - have to be able to afford a car, and everywhere else.

Then Biden helped bus them to Washington & all over the country to spread the virus more.

If anything Biden is MORE to blame for not telling the Libtards protesting to go home.

And I'm saying that in 4 and a half years, Trump's damage to America is incomparable. Did people lose their jobs under Biden? Yes. Did people go to jail and serve harsher sentences under Biden? Sure. Did thousands die because he lied? No, I don't think so.

To compare his collateral damage while he is in office to the President who is the leader of the free world and made us number one in total deaths and total infected since May? These last 8 months have been more devastating than anything Biden has ever done in his entire 40 years in government. That wasn't under Biden's watch. That was under Trump's.

No one died because Trump played down the virus. They died because they were stupid & went into public settings during a Pandemic.

You have a misconception of blame. Blame the people that made choices to go out into public - not the guy who said to stay at home & socially distance.

Follow me - I followed you bc this has been one of the best debate/conversations I've had about politics since.... Wait. Didn't we debate before? If so then.