The Western Value Of Press Freedom Trough Time

You wouldn’t know what free press is lefty cancel culture silence and enemy of free speech.

Okay, so I have no idea why you have picked me out as left-wing, 7News is actually centre-right and many of the journalists who have been arrested or assaulted in this crackdown are right-wing (e.g. the Rebel Media one).

But whether or not these journalists are left-wing is not really the issue here, freedom of the press and of speech are values that should be important to everyone no matter who is speaking.

The anti police rhetoric of your creation would indicate you are a leftist in today’s environment.

Journalist who mix in with the crowd can not be easily separated for one because, unlike the past, they don’t wear identification anymore because it makes them a target of the same mob they are part of. Swim with the school get swallowed by the whale.

How many non-journalist protestors have you seen turn up lugging TV cameras?

Well judging from the pictures you used I see the first guy appears to have something in his hand but it is hard to identify in the picture. In the second picture he is obviously in a group of anti family clad punks and has his back turned to the officer. You get in the way you get trampled. Move bitch, get out the way!

What does 'anti-family' even mean? I mean the only time I have ever heard anything rhetoric against families was when a Fox News parody (I think called OAN) described how the left was planning to use gender-neutral penguins chicks to impose tyranny. It was absolutely hilarious.

And just because he had his back turned to the officer does not mean that he is not a journalist. It means he is running away.

Auto correct changed antics to anti family but it actually works if you have seen the latest manifestos of the left against church and family

Also, not really seen any action against the church and family by the left. In fact, it seems to be the Right who wants to take subtle steps against the freedom of religion by abolishing or reinterpreting the constitutional clause preventing the establishment of a church.

Well you are not in the US Are you. Sean white of the BLM movement said all images of Jesus should be vandalized because they perpetuated white supremacy. And yesterday in Miami a statue of Jesus was decapitated. They have also put out numerous blurbs saying their goal is to destroy the idea of the nuclear family and self reliance because those are white. So you really talk like a leftist why do you deny that’s what you are?

I think that you may have misunderstood Shaun King's position. He's asking for images depicting Jesus as white to be torn down because Jesus probably looked Middle Eastern. He isn't making any point about Jesus at all.

I also don't think he is representative of the wider BLM movement which I think is more interested in actually reducing deaths from police then arguing over whether or not pictures of Jesus depicting him as white are a problem.

I don't say I'm a leftist, because my political position, left-wing libertarian, does not translate very well into the US political spectrum which doesn't actually really contain anyone on the left (Sanders, maybe) and where both sides support big government as determined by a massive military budget, oversized police force, intrusive police behaviours, and large surveillance state.

So instead I talk about issues like freedom of the press which affects outlets on both left and right (like the journalists pictured in the second frame). I think that people on both left and right support press freedom though.

Regardless he called for destruction of religious icons that fits nicely with Marxist destruction of religion doesn’t it? And churches have been burned recently. The Virgin Mary was lit on fire and The statue of Jesus decapitated, but you go ahead and support the good guys fighting your good fight.

Sure press freedom is a good thing not found in many countries anymore. and free press as an organized group are non existent in the US. They are all beholden to some corporation who is pushing their agenda. Objective Journalism is nearly dead it doesn’t get twitter votes and it doesn’t make money because it doesn’t sensationalize the slightest thing for profit. End result is that if a journalist is in a crowd they are subjected to whatever the crowd is subjected to. Why can’t you just say protester attacks on. The “free press” are wrong too? Instead of justifying it or rationalizing it to fot your hate the police narrative.

I don't think that he wants the destruction of all religious icons and even if he did I'm not sure that is automatically a Marxist agenda. (e.g. Ayn Rand said "I am against god for the reason that I don't want to destroy reason" and her agenda is hardly Marxist.

Look I'm fed up of the press's general refusal to hold those in power to account as the next person but I think that it is, therefore, all the more important when they finally do decide to cover the protests that they are not detered by being attacked by the police.

As for why I am complaining about police attacks on media not those of protestors, it's because the police are an organised trained arm of that state and when people who are paid and equipped by the government are stopping reporters from reporting that is the road to tyranny.

There is no way a protest can prevent someone from attacking the media and claiming that they did it in the name of the protest. On the other hand, it is more than possible for the government to make sure that police officers are checking whether the people they have just arrested were carrying press passes.

But in spite of this, the vast majority of attacks on members of the media came from the police. https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/journalists-attacked-police-george-floyd-protests/

Wow 'antics' to 'anti-family', autocorrect seems to have got worse since it was invented. 😄

Should read “Antifa” apparently even auto correct doesn’t like that word.

Ha, technology. Maybe next time the Right is picking a group to accuse all protestors that oppose it of being members of they'll pick one that has a more autocorrect friendly name. Oh and perhaps don't pick one who's name is a contraction of anti-fascists. I mean if you are calling the people who oppose you anti-fascists perhaps that is bad optics...

Look, it's not our optics I am worried about here. They evidently weren't Antifa because Antifa are people who counter demonstrate people they perceive as fascists. These people were not counter demonstrating and weren't concerned about fascism in America. If you are randomly going to accuse them of being in a group that they're not involved with why don't you just call them communists. Yeah, then you can accuse me of being a communist for caring about press freedom.

Really I think that some people on the fringes on the right really wanted people to criticise Antifa because that way it makes them look more legitimate. Because hey, they're being counter protested by Antifa who are armed thugs so it doesn't really matter that they've turned up with semi-automatic weapons.

Well of course all the left cares about is optics Lefty. Doesn’t matter the name and communists are communists whether you call them Marxists or Antifa or BLM. Same animals called by different names.

Also, I live in a country where the right-wing government has cut 21,000 police since coming into office. Being anti-police doesn't mean being left-wing.

Also also, I wouldn't describe this as 'anti-police' as much as 'anti-police-attacking-journalists-with-batons'. But I dunno maybe freedom of the press is fundamentally opposed to police doing whatever they like. I mean freedom of the press would be a pretty big problem to the police in China.

I can’t speak to police actions in other countries, u scan say that journalists are not targeted by police here. If they are mixed in they are not shields they get the same as the crowd if the crowd becomes unruly.

1. The crowd was not violent
2. I think hitting fleeing members of the crowd with batons is unreasonable extrajudicial punishment even if they were being unruly
3. The police clearly had time to identify that this was a TV cameraman and Australian reporter but an officer attempted to hit them with a baton anyway.

The image on the left is a picture of Lesley Boulton being swung at by a British police officer during the 'Battle' of Orgreave. https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/dec/16/battle-orgreave-lesley-boulton-photograph

The image on the right is a picture of a US police officer taking a swing at a 7News camera crew, managing to be captured live not only by the camera crew itself but by a reporter broadcasting live for a local TV station. https://wjla.com/news/local/exclusive-video-shows-police-officere-striking-cameraman-during-dc-protest The image prompted the Australian government to register a formal request for investigation along with its "strong concerns" and was referred to by the PM as troubling.

lol you cant just do whatever the f**k you want...well you can but there are consequences. you can still report and record from behind the barricade. freedom to speak and the press have not been infringed. quick trying to start crap.

These journalists weren't doing whatever the f**k they want. They were just going to protests an attempting to film or photograph. If you can not go to protests and film/photograph/report without risking arrest or assault then the freedom of the press is being infringed. It was not a matter of just being on the other side of the barricade. The 7News camera crew had to flee several blocks.

If the government gets to pick where camera crews can record from then they get to pick what they can record. There are situation in which this is reasonable (e.g. to protect government secrets) but when it is obviously just to stop them recording police attacking protestors then where are we? China?

you cant proteat wherwver you want. which they were. they were told to move the protest. no one has a problem with protest, just dont force your political shit on everyone, which they were doing. have fun, eat a dick.

Okay, I must admit my heart sort of sunk at the end of that because I read "have fun" and thought this was going to be a civilised discussion. Then I saw the "eat a dick" and realised that this was 2020 and most people don't go for that sort of thing anymore. I think that's a bit of a shame.

On to the substance. You may well not be able to protest wherever you want but lafayette square is literally the place people go to protests. It seems like it has protestors in it every day of the year. At least one protestor says that they were never instructed to move https://www.npr.org/2020/06/29/884609432/scared-confused-and-angry-protester-testifies-about-lafayette-park-removal

But the thing at issue here is not protestors right to protest in grounds commonly used for protests but that a police officer swung a button at a fleeing TV crew that had been covering them. I honestly can not see what the officer was aiming for except to punish media from reporting on the situation and therefore deter future reporting.

And if you don't want "political shit" forced on you I'd advise that in future you stay away from the politics stream. Just a suggestion.

The problem with a still photo is it captures a millisecond in time. If you ever had to try and work crowd control you might better understand the actions of police who have been told to move people back for any of a hundred reasons when a protest mob becomes unruly

I will admit that I have never actually "had to try and work crowd control" (have you?) but from what I have heard and seen from people who have, the general strategy is to advance slowly or not at all. Also, I have not seen any evidence that the mob was unruly before they were charged.

However, as ever, this is not about actions to the protestors but the police's action to media. I would be willing to say that this was just a 'spur of the moment' decision if it weren't for the ample evidence that police have attacked and arrested journalists despite knowing that they were journalists.

Unfortunately, I can't take a picture of a journalist spending 2 nights in a police cell, by there very nature photographs capture "a millisecond in time" so I am afraid I am stuck with a picture of a police officer hitting a fleeing journalist with a baton.

Your picture doesn’t prove your point. No journalists are jailed who are not mixed in with a crowd of thugs and clearly identified. If they want to blend and report from the crowd they take their risks and are subject to the actions of the crowd and reaction by the authorities.

What is truly new is the press that have been attacked by the mob. A democratic congressman and mob supporter was attacked for filming a protest, but it’s the police that bother you.

"No journalists are jailed who are not mixed in with a crowd of thugs and clearly identified."
I feel like this might rather contradict your point https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/minneapolis-cnn-crew-arrested/index.html

But yes, it's the police that bother me? Do you want to know why? It's because the police are an organised trained arm of that state and when people who are paid and equipped by the government are stopping reporters from reporting that is the road to tyranny.

There is no way a protest can prevent someone from attacking the media and claiming that they did it in the name of the protest. On the other hand, it is more than possible for the government to make sure that police officers are checking whether the people they have just arrested were carrying press passes.

But in spite of this, the vast majority of attacks on members of the media came from the police. https://theintercept.com/2020/06/04/journalists-attacked-police-george-floyd-protests/

you are ignorant. again you cant hide from any political crap, because the left is forcing it in every facet of everyones lives.mob went into the saint louis couples home. they most likely did not want anything to do with it but were forced and now might be facing charges for defending themselves. im good with politics but again there are plenty of violence and destruction going on. the government didnt say you cant protest, they just said you cant protest here in this area due to the...ready for it...violence. you act like these are the only people living in this world!!! other people want to move on from this. yes the news crew was told to move, they didnt. play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Again someone assuming that because I have got a meme supporting the freedom of reporters to film protests I am left-wing. Do people on the right no longer support press freedom? The Australian TV crew were from a right-wing station. Whatever side of the political spectrum you are on I think it is important to recognise their right to freedom of the press.

I have not seen any evidence the news crew was told to move and plenty of evidence to the contrary. I have also seen no evidence that these protestors were violent. Saint Louis is more than 500 miles away from DC so it isn't really relevant.

I understand your frustration that you can't hide from politics (I'm afraid that it's a consequence of living in a society where the population is given a say over politics) but I posted this to the politics stream so I haven't thrust it in anyone's face who isn't interested in politics. I suggest that if you don't like politics then you stop following the politics stream.

never called you lefty, i said the left. not talking about your meme im talking about the people in your meme.

when i said left i mean it. it is whats happening outside of this meme. your meme was an example of leftist mentality believing they have a right to protest anywhere. the story was reported. news crew is not going to jail for reporting this. press is still free. it is unlawful to follow lawful orders from a police officer. so far the police ordered them to move from the area. thats it. no rights were infringed. they are not in labor camps, get over it.

Saint Louis: of course you havent seen it, you havnt actively searched for it. it is relevant as cops are ordered to restore peace because of situations like the SL couple. many people in this world just want to live there lives. people dont want to get harrassed, but we are seeing more protesters interfering with people who dont want to get involved. go and protest, thats fine, but do it responsibly and dont interfere with the average Americans.

again i love politics, thats why im in the stream. there are REAL f**king people that you are talking about, when this reporter incident took place that dont want to get involved. the cops did there job and now normal people could just say " thank you" and move about without getting political. those people you did not show on your meme because all you care about is something thats not real. the reporters are fine. it was a terrible political meme because it treats it like an isolated incident. like nothing provoked it.

These people were protesting on a spot well known for protesting where there are virtually always protests. I have not seen any evidence that they were ordered to move from the area and have seen (and cited) evidence to the contrary.

While the journalists are currently free it does not require journalists to be long term imprisoned to prevent them from reporting. They were attacked by police just for doing their job. If that happens regularly (and it has been happening regularly) then it is likely to put some of them off going to protests and filming what is happening.

Further temporary arrests prevent reporters from reporting over that time period which allows the government to act free of scrutiny while making potentially some other authoritarian actions. This may be more subtle than locking journalists up for life but in the end, it can lead to the same effect: a lack of information for the public to make informed democratic choices

Whether or not protestors are interfering with average Americans doesn't matter and there being an unruly protest 500 miles away does not necessitate clearing protestors from a well-known protest spot.

I assumed that by 'you're political shit' you meant this post. If you mean storming into the house of a Saint Louise couple then that is not my political shit and I very much oppose it. These cops did not just do their jobs, their jobs were to keep the protests under control. Their wider actions caused the protests to escalate. These actions were probably not things that they wanted to be doing but were instructed to do from higher up in the government.

But the cop pictured here is using his baton to attack a fleeing journalist. That is not part of their job or what they were instructed to do. I don't think this is something we should say "thank-you" for this is something we should demand answers and actions about.

I care about press freedom. I care about the dozens of journalists who have been arrested and the hundreds who have been attacked. Those are very real things. I am sorry that this meme makes it appear that the attack was an isolated incident because it is not. It is happening across the country, on camera and off camera, to foreign reporters, national reporters, local reporters, bloggers, and independent photojournalists. It is coming in the form of arrests and attacks.

press are very powerful today than any other period in time. plus just because you are press doesnt mean you get away with a bunch of crimes. our press is not under attack.

doesnt matter if that spot is a mainspot for protest . like you said you dont know the full story. how are you to judge their actions, from a 1 minute clip. no problem. i dont really care about your politics but i think you are arguing something non-existent. good luck on this hill. if you want to talk about the death of press talk about china or NK. have fun

The press may well be very powerful but it needs to be not be discouraged from using that to hold other people in power to account. It seems to be perpetually blathering on about the problems with those in opposition and those in power abroad (just look at the ongoing Russia-gate story, it seems like the press has decided it is much easier just to hold the Russian government to account).

If it is made difficult for the press to report on protests then the corporations that unfortunately dominate the media landscape will just pack up and leave and go to interpreting potentially fake cell phone footage from ivory towers. Press freedom could be eroded quickly but it can also be eroded gradually.

If it is the main spot for protests then I think arguing that these protestors were a problem because they were protesting wherever they like doesn't actually make sense. I am judging their actions from a much wide collection of footage and analysis I have seen including their whole report ~15 minutes plus various footage from before the police charge (maybe an extra 30-45 minutes).

If you don't really care about it then why did you tell me to "eat a dick"? I am fairly sure that the 71 journalists who have been arrested and 276 who have been attacked would beg to differ on their attacks being "non-existent".

As mentioned I feel it is important that reporting holds to account people we can vote out of power. I am more than willing to talk about the danger to the press in China and North Korea but I don't think that the people who would read that could do anything about it.

Have fun as well.