Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Not all statues are celebratory, some commemorate, some remind.

So Germany should have statues of hitler then.

I'm not suggesting any particular statues, and not saying there aren't some that should be taken down (such as the ones that celebrated Hitler), just saying there are some that are somber enough that they should stand as reminders. Any statue taken down should be done so by process and order as well, not torn down by an angry mob.

I would agree that the statues should be taken down democratically with a vote, but doing so illegally also shouldn’t warrant 10 years in jail like in trumps executive order. I disagree that some are somber reminders. Basically all of them were erected by ex confederates and white supremacists during the Jim Crow and civil rights era to glorify them., not as a historical marker, and to intimidate black people. Black people today who lived through the civil rights era should not have to have their taxpayer money go to the statues.

It was orders exactly like Trump's that the South's leading general fought most against. He was a statesman, and fought the war more for his home state of Virginia than anything else.

The precedent you suggest is a very dangerous one, and also is generalized. To say that most of the monuments are to glorify something is false. The memorials around Gettysburg, Manassas, etc. do not glorify anything. They represent the tragic and extreme loss of life (on both sides) and are definitely somber reminders of the past. Yes, there are statues of Confederate generals all over the south. And their names are not just on the statues, they are on buildings, libraries, schools, roads, and countless other pieces of integral infrastructure. To erase all that would be to erase an entire region and history, which is the real point I'm trying to make. Those generals were not all perfect and some fought for the wrong reasons, as with any war. But most fought with the same conviction that Lee did, against federal imposition. If anything, the memorials should stand as a reminder of just how bad things can and will get if this current unrest continues. I feel it is folly to ignore these things and act as though they never happened, erasing the history, or per my meme the memories.

I also fault our schools for teaching only that the war was fought over slavery. Ask any Civil War historian, or better yet research it for yourself, they will tell you it is much much more complex than that. It frustrates me to see that such a rich and tragic history has been boiled down into such a simpleton's cudgel to impose racism onto those who have long forgotten it.

If the Confederate monuments truly were somber reminders or to represent loss of life, they would have been erected immediately after the Civil War. They weren't. They were built in the 1900's, the 1920's and the 1960's which corresponded to the era of Jim Crow and the Civil Rights era. The reason: to glorify Confederates and to intimidate blacks. If there are memorials erected immediately after the Civil war of individual soldiers to recognize the dead or as somber reminders of the war, they can stay up, but the vast majority of Confederate statues are of generals and served as a giant middle finger to blacks.

Taking Confederate statues down does not "erase history." No one learns history by walking past a statue in the park. That's ridiculous. By that same token, no one will forget about the Civil War if statues and street names are changed. There are no statues of Osama Bin Laden in New York as a somber reminder of a gruesome history. We learn that in school. Removing those statues does not "ignore" the Civil War; people will still learn about the Confederacy in school.

It's terrible that black people have to pay taxes for statues that openly celebrate their oppression. Removing these statues would be a step forward in the right direction, albeit only a symbolic one. I hope you understand this, because I genuinely believe you're arguing in good faith here.

Discussing, not arguing :) and yes it is in good faith. I think your stance is noble, but where do you stop it? Where does PC culture (sorry, I know that term is sort of harsh/divisive these days) stop? As I said before, to rename or remove ALL of the things in the South that are named after confederate soldiers would be an impossible task, let alone all the places named after people who were racist or bigoted or whatever (e.g., Strom Thurmond and Benjamin Tillman to name a couple from my home state).

I hear you on schooling, but I can say that I know from personal experience that schools (at least K-12) do not teach the whole story. True, statues do not teach history but that is not my point, my point is that they should remind us of what used to be in contrast to what is now.

I think maybe we are viewing each other's points as extremes whereas there is a middle ground. As I read your comments, I'll admit that I hear you saying all of it should be taken down. I feel that you hear me saying that all of it should remain. Since I can't speak for you, let me at least clarify my stance in that I do believe there are some things that should be removed in an orderly way. My original meme is really trying to address the current reactionary destruction of any statue that someone somewhere could possibly be offended by, to the point where even statues of abolitionists are destroyed which is crazy to me. George Washington, the man himself, was a slave owner, so again I ask...where do we stop? That is the precedent I feel is being dangerously toyed with.

I understand your worries. To clarify my stance, I believe that all Confederate statues and monuments whose purpose was to glorify Confederates should be taken down, preferably through a democratic vote. I would agree with you that statues of people like George Washington, Frederick Douglass, and US Grant obviously shouldn't be taken down. However, just because some people are taking it too far, does not mean that the whole project of taking down Confederate statues should be abandoned. I would agree with you that removing all Confederate monuments will be a difficult and daunting task, but it's still a worthwhile goal to strive towards. To quote JFK, "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

Finally I would stress that even though I have strong opinions on this issue, at the end of the day, these are only statues and should not be the centerpiece issue of liberals and leftists. I think that those on the left who will endlessly talk about Confederate statues without also addressing systemic problems faced by blacks have their priorities misplaced. Of course it should be talked about, but not in lieu of conversations about more pressing issues.

If only more could talk like this instead of throwing insults or being petty we could actually accomplish things. And I could not agree more with your second paragraph, very well said.

I try to maintain civil discourse to the best of my ability when someone is acting in good faith:)

As do I. If someone is being stupid I usually just ignore it, not worth my time. However, conversations like this one that make you think are always worth having, and I find it enjoyable. Cheers bro, sending upvotes your way :)

Well you will obviously need a visit to the re-education camp until you think in an approved manner

TRUUUUUUUUUUUU!

No