Could someone please explain this to me? I'm both very confused and curious.

we don't pray to saints, we ask them to intercede on our behalf

Ok, but then why not ask Christ directly? I'm pretty sure He'd rather talk to His servants directly than through a messenger. And it's not like having a saint intercede for you is going to increase the likelihood of God answering a prayer. And if you need prayer support, why not just ask your close friends? Please don't think I'm attacking you Catholics; I still love y'all as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm just puzzled by this particular doctrine of yours.

From what I’ve heard, each Saint has a special thing they intercede for. I don’t really get it either, but all I know is it works

Thanks logger for contributing to the discussion. Always good to see fellow Catholics in this stream! I hope you'll post also! God bless you.

Sorry I haven't posted on this stream. I just found it.

we dont pray, we ask for their intersecion. we ask them to ask god to help us

Thanks for posting! I hope I can help clarify and also give biblical support for why we might ask Mary and the saints to intercede for us. (Which by the way is not our way of sidestepping Jesus, in fact most every prayer we say no matter whom we're asking help from will end with "we ask this through Christ Our Lord. Amen) can you look at Revelation chapter 8?

So I looked it up, and while I see how it's related to this conversation, I'm not sure how it supports the Catholic doctrine of prayer to the saints. It could just be we're working with different definitions here, but I'm not seeing it.

I'l respond soon! Thanks for your patience :)

And thank you for being willing to take the time to answer!

we ask saints to intercede because God blessed them and loves them a lot. they are already close to God, and he loves listening to them. We pray more directly to God though because he listens to both. We also ask close fiends for prayer support. We pray for saints intercession because they are really good at some things. They are like Santa's elves. When he is busy, they help ease his work.

But if God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, then why does He need help from folk who are really just glorified humans? Again, not attacking y'all, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, I wouldn't compare saints to elves or God to Santa (who is actually historically based off of the historic Bishop Nicolas of ancient time)

God indeed is omniscient and all powerful and doesn't need any human intervention or help to do His will. But what's to stop him from using human instruments? The Bible is full of instances of God choosing certain individuals (Moses, Noah, Abraham, John the Baptist, Paul) setting them apart to be his voice, hands and feet so to speak in the world. They are referred to as anointed, set apart to accomplish a special mission. So why can he not choose individuals in our modern day, whom we can look up to as examples of what it means to follow God?

I completely agree with you. God did choose to work His will through various individuals. And He still does. But what your friend up there was saying was that the saints are there to help when God is too busy. And that's obviously incorrect.

Yes, I think they were trying to provide an analogy that was oversimplifying God without intending to. God certainly needs no assistance and could accomplish his will regardless of humans. But out of His humility and love chooses to involve mankind in the act of salvation. Our involvement is more for our sake to open our hearts and correspond with grace.

i know it's confusing, but most of the time you ask the saints to intercede, and you ask God directly. Saints have done miracles through God, and it is nice to have multiple people to address prayers to. Do you pray the Hail Mary? It is because saints talk to God and can change his mind and get his help. In Genesis, Abraham asked God to not kill the innocent people in Sodom and Gomorrah. God decided to spare the innocent people because Abraham made a good point. If God doesn't plan on helping us with a certain problem, asking a saint to intercede might change God's mind in your favor.

So you're saying that a mere human, saint though he be, can change the mind of the Almighty God? Sounds absurd to me, TBH. And Abraham didn't change God's mind. God knew that Abraham would ask, and God knew the answer he would give. And also, Abraham didn't ask that the innocents be spared. He asked that the cities be spared if even ten righteous people could be found there. And since only four could be found (Lot, his wife, and his two daughters [and even then, the daughters were kinda dubious]), God destroyed the cities.

I know I sound like I'm being aggressive, rather than curious, but but so far the points you've made are unsupported by scripture, and the scripture you've used to support your arguments are misquoted/taken out of context.

Remember the wedding feast of Cana when Jesus at the bidding of His Mother changed water into wine even though "his hour had not yet come?" Perhaps he was intending to do it all along but why would he basically say it wasn't his time to do it yet go ahead and do it after Mary told the servers to "do whatever he tells you"? In ancient history the queen or even the mother of the king was often sought out and a asked to intercede on behalf of common folk because people knew she had clout with the king. Look up the book of Esther.

Hey Quick question Aelfwine. Have you ever prayed for anyone in need or been asked to pray with someone or even asked some one to pray for you?

Yes. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. And I do see the point you're driving at. But wouldn't it make more sense that those who are still fighting the battle on this Earth would support each other in prayer, rather than relying on those whom God has pleased to take out of it?

Well, I do rely on those still fighting the battle to pray for me but why not ask for those who have fought the good fight and won the race to also help? They are closer to God than we are.

So you're saying... That because the saints are already with God, the somehow have a greater influence on Him? I thought they were His servants, not the other way around.

HI Aelfwine, I think to memory you're the first person to acknowledge s/he as Protestant. To me, that a clear indicator of a believer who knows his/her history and I am impressed!

I'd like to invite you to my own stream imgflip.com/m/Evangelicalism . There you'll meet fellow Protestants. :)

He's a former Catholic too. :( Wonder how much of his history he really knows or was taught if he thinks we worship Mary and the saints.

I thnk often that they do not know church history; just as they also do not know the bible for themselves. Evangelicals in general knows a little more of scripture but they too are ignorant of church history. If Aefwine is ignorant of the history of the church then he could hardly be fauilted for it as rarely anyyone are enouraged to do that anymore.

And the biggest reason why both of our churches are at an intellectual slump is because we've lost the cultural love for learning. Our secular American world have lost it and so have we. Kids now have only Sunday School training, and then go to youth groups learing about the basics of Christianity depending on what church you go to. This is because not only intellectual apathy is infecting the Church but also Liberalism as well, and in those churches the Bible is just a book of ethics.

I myself was ignorant of church history until in recent years when I've watch the "Shocking Youth Message" by Paul Washer, and and also been watching youtuve videos on historical heresies, including the Gnostics, the Arians, and Palagianism.

I agree that many don't understand what they believe and why because this sort of knowledge which should be primary is not the focus anymore in many denominations. And yes liberalism and the belief in relative truth is the main cause of this apathy. Thanks for joining in the discussion brother. :)

Ok, but this is unrelated to my question. It sounds to me you're just trying to get more followers for your stream. And I don't see how stating that I'm a Protestant (which I'm not really sure I am; there are things in mainstream Protestantism that I disagree with) shows that I know my history.

Hi Aelfwine, I don't believe she's trying to gain attention for the sake of numbers. Kate is simply informing me about your religious background. Despite our theological difference for which there are many, she and I have been friends on ImgFlip for almost a year.

With that said, let's talk over at the Evangelical stream; I would like very much to talk about what you agree with, and what you're struggling with on Protestantism.

I wasn't talking to Kate. I was talking to you. I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh, but I had a question and you weren't answering it. It seemed to me like you were just trying to get me to follow your stream through flattery. Maybe I'm just being stupid (again), but that's how I read it.

It's ok Aelfwine, I don't mind people promoting other faith based streams here. Uniform and I are good friends in fact moderate each other's streams though we'r don't agree with everything posted in them. We are both just looking for opportunities to discuss God and faith. We are all brothers and sisters just seeking the truth. :)

Alright. I wasn't complaining about his theology per se, but I still get the point.

Oh, I see. My coming here is to get more people to join the stream but it's not merely because I wanted numbers.

I want those who are Protestants by confession (not in terms of fessing up but statement of faith) to read what i've posted on the stream so that they have a greater understanding of the doctrines they believe in through precise definition, explanation, and most importantly, through scripture.

As if they believed in a different doctrine that scripture is actually against, I am hoping that through my memes they would be convinced.

And your statement of being Protestant is something I rarely see because Christians in general do not know their history. They call themselves "Christian", and that is good because they are; but they know of nnothing else.

What they don't know is the process of development behind key doctrines we believed in today, and that Protestants in the past suffered and died for what they believed in (John 16:2) so that today, we can freely believe it today without being persecuted and killed. So if you're thinking that I'm just giving you compliments in order to get you to join my stream.... no I am not.

Also, I'm not presuming that you know all of this, but the simple fact that you've called yourself Protestant is an uncommon thing. Why would anyone call themselves by that name if they do not know something about it?

Hey, I know it's a bit late to say this, but I'm terribly sorry for the way I replied to your first comment. That was incredibly rude and un-Christlike of me. Will you forgive me?

But it's it true that you used to be Catholic? I'm sorry if I assumed wrong but I seem to recall you mentioning this in another meme. It does help me to better explain knowing a little background.

No. I was raised non-denominational, and I go to a non-denominational church. However, I'm probably more like a Catholic in some ways that most Protestants. Maybe I'm most like an Anglican (except I that hate the ESV translation!).

Ah, I see. Well thanks for joining the stream and discussions!

You can believe what you believe. What i am taught/believe is that God's mind was changed.

But if God's mind can be changed, then how can we trust Him and His promises? If a mere human being can change the mind of the Almighty God, then how can we be sure that someone won't talk Him out of fulfilling His promises to us? I know it's rather far-fetched, but according to what you're saying, it's perfectly plausible.