Reacc to pro-gun extremists

It clearly states it is "the right of the people". And it is preceded by a semicolon.
Have a little grammar refresher here:
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/semicolon/

It could be rewritten as "Since there is a need for a well regulated militia for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

But that is besides the point, because it clearly says the right belongs to the people, not to militias.

Go Slim! I knew I liked you!

Getting on with a bit of back and forth now.

I don’t fully agree with you but I thank you for engaging with a well-reasoned argument. Unlike so many.

The Bill of Rights mentions "Right of the People" a few times, and it reads as though some significance was placed on those specific rights when it was mentioned. And the Bill of Rights is not just rights for the people, they are also restrictions on the government. These restrictions on the government are a toothless tiger if there is no way for the people to keep the government in check, and that is precisely the intention of the 2nd Amendment.

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/bill-of-rights/

I chose this website because it is .org and operates off of donations which means they are free from outside influence or persuasion.

I used to semi-think like this. Here is the problem. Frankly, the U.S. military — the world’s most powerful and sophisticated, by far — could flatten us laypeople overnight regardless of how many handguns or even assault rifles we keep in the home.

There is no standardized, government-sponsored program of self-defense or militia drilling. We are a race of supine consumers who sit in front of the TV or internet all day and shop at places like Wal-Mart and Costco. Most of us are overweight and unfit to serve in a military capacity.

Don’t kid ourselves that we are prepared to stand up against a real invasion force.

The only thing keeping us safe from tyranny is our politics. Which are coming apart. The Trump presidency is truly disturbing in how it’s divided us. We need to restore sanity so we can heal and grow together as a nation.

You are correct about the abilities of the US military. But there is the oath that each one if them has taken to just be in the military and lots have taken multiple times. That have each sworn to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; ...". During initial training there is also lengthy segments of training about what is and what isn't a "lawful order" and they are not obligated to follow unlawful orders. And what I remember from it is that it is unlawful for the US military to act AGAINST it's citizens.

Ok, after researching it, it appears the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act was highly modified in 2006, but it still has some very stringent guidelines on circumstances of use. But you also have to keep in mind, everyone in the military is there for the betterment of the country, and don't want to see any harm come to it and certainly don't want to BE the harm that comes to it.

And there was at a few instances in not that historic history of technologically superior forces being bested by the simple man with a rifle. The Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Russian military and the Viet Cong against the US in Vietnam. So it is not an impossible feat.

US Military Oath:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/502

I guess what I would say at this point is: if you are so confident in the training of the U.S. military to not commit war crimes against its own people, then what is the purpose of owning the guns at all? Why permit the general ownership by the public of weaponry that kills thousands upon thousands and maims and scars many more per year? Other countries have banned guns and seen homicides plummet; I believe in us and know we capable of doing the same if we tried.

The other thing I’ll mention is that if we ever get into a Mujahideen or Viet Cong situation, we’ll have already lost. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, would die in such a guerrilla war. That’s why it’s so essential to get our politics right on the front end, so we never have to fight it out on the back end.

I’ve only been here about a month but I’ve already ran into so-called conservatives telling me what they’re going to do to me in the “coming civil war.” I know that they’re getting that idea from some media source and the idea that there are people out there peddling such garbage is beyond disturbing, and they must be called out and opposed at all costs.

Q)  if you are so confident in the training of the U.S. military to not commit war crimes against its own people, then what is the purpose of owning the guns at all?
A) Refer to the Red comment above:
"These restrictions on the government are a toothless tiger if there is no way for the people to keep the government in check,..."

Q) Why permit the general ownership by the public of weaponry that kills thousands upon thousands and maims and scars many more per year?
A) Roughly 33,000 "Firearm Deaths" each year with 2/3 (or 22,000) being suicides, that leaves 11,000 to non-suicide firearm deaths, which is 1/3 of 1% (0.0033%)of the entire population of the United States. And that IS including all justified and gang related firearm deaths. ( https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/ - I would suggest looking at the "Explore the Data" button to apply filters. And read the methodology of the Data compilation)

And should a decision of one person not wanting a firearm restrict an 80 year old grandmother from choosing to have a great equalizer against a mid 20's meth-head who broke into her house for drugs/money/anything sellable?

As for me, I choose to be the protector of my own safety. A by product of that is that everyone in my immediate vicinity is also within my realm of protection and I will protect them as well if the need arises.

And as far as the Mujahideen and Viet Cong being brought up, ėwas just to point out historical occurances of technologically inferior forces being able to successfully combat a technologically superior force to the point of conceding defeat through voluntary withdrawal. And that it is possible.

And some research into firearm usage in self defense may take you in an unexpected direction if you are able to find some unbiased reporting of it. One I have found that reported on it second hand is here ( https://capitalresearch.org/article/why-is-the-cdc-hiding-its-defensive-gun-use-statistics/ ) and I only picked that one after reading their about page here ( https://capitalresearch.org/about/ ). The info is out there, it is usually buried, but I know I have read a direct report from the CDC page, I just could not find it this time around.

Sorry for the length, your response was multi-tiered with a few different questions and points needing address. Another reason it took so long.

No further discussion?

Sorry I let this one drop, it was a great back-and-forth but it seems I'm getting into a zillion different arguments these days.

Just a couple points I want to make...

1. I'm not trying to overturn the 2nd Amendment, and I don't think most Democrats are either. The hyperbolic language of an "assault on our rights" which can only be met with firepower needs to stop. We just want more sensible restrictions particularly on the very most lethal types of firearms, which I believe are compatible with a reasonable reading of the text of the 2nd Amendment, particularly the "well-regulated militia" language. 3inv2a.jpg (click to show)

2. Guns kill people... they just do. Yes, there is a human behind the trigger. But that same human can kill others, or himself/herself, so much more easily with a gun than with a knife or a hammer or some other potentially lethal instrument. Excuse the salty language on this meme, it is not directed at you but rather at someone else I was debating on this issue who brought some phony statistics to the argument. 3iorhc.jpg (click to show)

Response to 1. - Did you know that that even when imprisoned, only some of your rights are taken away? And upon release from prison, they are returned to you? All except one right, the only right that is the center of conversation through this comments section is the ONLY one that is NOT returned to a convicted felon. So with them not being able to own firearms, that is an infringement on their 2nd amendment right. And those people have it restricted because those people are deemed a threat to society. I am not sure what firearms you are referring to because to procure a weapon that is the same make, model, or of the same operation, you have to be specially licensed and have a background check which takes months.
So which firearms require further restrictions?

Response to 2. - Hammers drive nails, screwdrivers drive screws, vehicles transport people, bats hit homeruns. But they only do these things when they are picked up by a person. And they only do these things when they are used for their intended purposes. People bludgeon people with hammers. People stab people with screwdrivers. People crash into other people in vehicles. And people bludgeon people with bats. It is all at the choice of the person utilizing the item they handle. None of these things will do either the positive or the negative without a person picks them up. If you look at the statics on intoxicated driving deaths alone, this is a bigger argument for vehicle restrictions than the numbers being used for any further firearm restrictions.
As for you referring to suicides, if they want it to happen it will happen, the means that they about it is unimportant as long their intended goal is achieved. It is up to the people around that person to be in their life enough to notice the need for help and provide the support to them.

Wolverines against the Russians, too!

Excellent Movie!!!

Some could consider it a training video...

https://youtu.be/bIj_se62hPI

GGwG stops BGwG.
First link is to a new outlet that very often times appears bias, but they covered some good points in it, which I found surprising.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-church-shooting-suspect-fatally-shoots-2-before-parishioners-kill-him/ar-BBYrq9K?li=BBnb7Kz

Second link is one that reports from the other side of the fence.

https://offgridsurvival.com/church-mass-shooting-in-texas-stopped-by-good-guy-with-gun/

Unfortunately, it seems the days of unbiased news reporting are over. But that is why I included two, so both can be read & scrutinized, with the decision be made by the reader.

As for me, I'd be one doing something proactive in that circumstance rather than reactive or passive.

The other church shooting in Texas a few years back didn't end well for the shooter either. They don't put up with that sort of $#!+ down there.

[image deleted]We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE WELL REGULATED MILITIA NECESSARY FOR THE SECURITY OF OUR FREE STATE. IT IS OUR RIGHT, WE THE PEOPLE, TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IN ORDER TO SECURE OUR FREE STATE FROM OUR ENEMIES, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC! THIS IS OUR RIGHT, AND IT SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!

Big patriot energy but explain to me how you are well-regulated. What do you do to maintain your gun skills? Are you evaluated by anyone? Do you ever run drills and practice marching with your countrymen?

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3jvtpz.jpg (click to show)

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39ohlu.jpg (click to show)

I like this one too
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3jvtpz.jpg (click to show)

Nice! Wherever did you find that??