Stupid Politicians And Gun Laws

The black market is still just a market.

Just an unregulated market...that never goes away.

Subject to all the laws of economics. There's nothing special about an unregulated market. If supply is low, the volume of sales at market equilibrium is low.

If demand is high, the incentive to smuggle arms will be greater. Arms shipments will be easier to smuggle than drugs, because dogs don't smell for guns.

Making guns illegal will result in ONLY criminals having guns.

Your supplier suddenly can't get ahold of guns that easily anymore. You tell him you still want a gun.

What is going to say?

He says the price has gone up. What used to cost $500 now costs $13,000. Fork out the extra dosh and he's still down to do some smuggling.

How many people are still in the demand curve at that price?

People going to the black market to buy a gun are preparing to commit a crime. If the gun is required, and the payoff justifies the expense, yes - they'll still buy the gun at $13k.

Are you unaware of how the black market works for guns? People don't use the black market because of the fantastic deals. There is no black-friday special. Prices are always high, because you're paying for convenience, privacy, and confidentiality. The person selling the black market guns faces criminal charges just like the person buying them.

Nobody is going to spend $13,000 on a crime that will get them maybe a grand on a good day! Or put it this way, fine - ok, let small time criminals get into $13,000 debt with black marketers. You'll see people turning up with broken thumbs a few weeks later and the crime rate will drop.

Make the supply difficult and you'll drop the volumes of sales - that's the way it is in every market ever in the history of ever. Guns aren't magic that way. Criminals have so many in the United States purely because they're not particularly difficult to get ahold of; if you make life difficult for the suppliers, the price will go up, and the volume will go down.

Which part of "if the payoff justifies the expense" did you not comprehend?

Criminals commit crimes. The small time criminals will resort to using knives and clubs. Research knife attacks in China to see how devastating they can be. People freak out here when a dozen people get shot - knife attacks are much much worse, with multiple dozen deaths, and sometimes hundreds of injured.

There are many gun manufacturers outside of the USA. A very popular and prolific manufacturer is Taurus of Brazil. If someone wanted to smuggle arms into the USA, that would be one of the first companies to supply. Then there are enemies of America, who would be more than willing to destabilize the country by flooding it with firearms. We do it to other countries all the time, even arming known criminal organizations (Operation Fast and Furious - under Obama, supplied guns to Mexican drug cartels).

Don't be naive. The only people who will be disarmed are the future victims. This story has repeated time and time again throughout just the past 100 years. Millions of deaths always begins with disarming the population.

Great. Chinese petty criminals have knives. Now look up how many mass shootings in schools they have had in China this year and tell me what you notice.

As for your claim that knife attacks are worse, that's nonsense: mortality rate on a gunshot wounds in the ER room is somewhere around 33%, and for knife wounds is about 7%. Paramedics can treat a knife wound fairly reliably. Guns are designed to shatter as much of your body as possible - bullets fragment on impact and tear through your internal organs. Guns are so much more lethal. We WANT everyone to switch to knives. We want them to knock off the violence entirely but if they must do that, we want them to do it with knives. We really do. That's why we're just about the only country to be this lackadaisical with guns.

When I say "knife attacks" I don't mean person a stabs person b. I'm talking about gang a runs through a crowded area stabbing and slashing everyone in their path. Dozens die, hundreds are injured - nobody knows where it's coming from because screams come from all directions.

My point is, criminals will commit crimes - regardless of how many laws are written to stop them. Someone who knows what they're doing can spend $100 in Home Depot and walk out with enough bomb making components to take out an entire school. Saudis did it with airplanes, the Boston Marathon was attacked with pressure cookers, Timothy McVeigh did it with fertilizer, arson, blunt force, exsanguination, asphyxiation, poison, electrocution, sabotage - I could go on and on.

If someone wants you dead, and they want it bad enough - they'll kill you. Tools are everywhere, made of everything. If you think it takes a gun to kill a person, you aren't firing on all neurons.

"Dozens die, hundreds are injured"

So, about 12% of victims die in these attacks?

Cool. In El Paso, it was about 50%. In Virginia Beech, 75%. 25% in Dayton. Some of these school shootings scored 100% on fatality - not one victim pulled through their wounds.

So yeah, talk to me about dozens out of hundreds. Me and most other voters have calculators.

total numbers - knife attacks beat shootings hands down....in this country or china. If you rely on percentages to make shootings look worse, then you're relying on statistics to lie for you.

"Chinese state media reports that 28 people were killed and 113 injured in an orchestrated knife attack in southwest China. A group of men reportedly wearing black stormed a busy train station and began stabbing people with long knives."

That's 28 dead in this one attack, 24%. 141 victims in one attack. Plop down some numbers to compete with that.

If someone wants you dead, there is no law that's going to stop them. If they want to do it with a gun, someone will sell it to them. You're more likely to be killed with a hammer than a gun or knife....and any child can buy a hammer.

Worked here, padre.

As of July 28, 521 people had been shot this year in New York City, in 441 shooting incidents, according to the police. That’s up from 501 people shot in 413 incidents in the same period a year ago.

Yeah, they're doing a bang-up job.

I wonder where the guns came from? It must be magic!

Yea but you also have to look at how big of a population New York has.

I only listed shootings, not all gun crime.

Last year, there were 7,885 violent crimes committed with firearms in New York, according to state figures. More than 4,200 of those crimes were in New York City’s five boroughs.

Still the safest big city in America.

What's the shooting rate in your town, padre?

My goodness....this year, zero. Last year, zero. I'll have to look back pretty far to find someone shot in my town.

Of course, in my town, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who isn't armed. Most aren't as well armed as I am, but everyone is armed.

Your sock puppet town of TedKaczynskiville don't count, padre.
And if there ain't no crime, ain't no need for gunz to keep it in line.

Oh my, you misunderstand. Everyone here is armed because we're protecting our livestock from predators. Of course, the occasional trespasser tends to not return after staring down a barrel....added bonus :) We get some crime here, it just tends to be petty - because nobody wants to get shot.... It's a real danger.

What's funny is the crime rate with my state allowed citizens to get concealed carry licenses. Carjackings became non-existent almost overnight. You NEVER hear about it anymore. The same with home invasions. It only takes a few criminals dying from lead poisoning to deter all the rest.

I've seen arguments start to flare, and then one or both participants sees a bulge in the others waistband and the whole thing blows over quickly.

Nobody wants to get shot. An armed society is a polite society.

Y'all jus' be a'sleepin in yer cars? And they jacked em when y'all weren't allowed to have gunz but now, no?
Zero crimes, huh? Wowww zowee.

PS: So your Mensa worthy biznezz is cows? That is so awesome.

Padre, tis your pleasure, but you have got to be the dullest troll wannabe on the site. Even DrStrangeFate - whose drivel sounded like luded out to Perry Como records - tucked in something to tickle the eye. You're just lame claims of fancy.

Now if you excuse me, I'mma Google crimeless cities of 7.5 million in the USA and see if I can figure out from the thousands of possibilities which is the one near you.

Later [yawns in sheesh]

I'll go a bit further and detail the number of shootings in the nearest big city....just to bring some good faith to the discussion.

2018 - 196 homicides. I can't find how many of those were firearm related deaths though - but that's quite a bit lower than NYC. Maybe that data will become available soon.

So, if ALL of those homicides were gun related, then my nearest big city would have less than half of New York. I'm certain they're not all gun related. I'd be surprised if 25% were.

Everyone is armed here.

And you can stop calling me padre. I'm not your daddy....no matter what your mom says.

Nobody is armed here, we don't have nearly the death toll you guys have. Even Winnipeg, one of the most dangerous city's in Canada on a per 100,000, nobody is armed. There was howver a stabbing last weekend in Nanaimo, bar fight. Imagine if he had a gun, coulda bin worse.

Hold on.....a Canadian arguing for US gun control? Mind your own damn business.

WWW dummy, open forum, says right on the masthead, c'mon I thought you were smart, comprehension is part of that isn't it? I'm sharing how my country does with our gun control compared to your country with lack there of, I'm not saying take all your guns either, I know plenty gun owners and have done my share of shooting guns. But how small your dick gotta be and how paranoid you gotta be to carry a gun everywhere?

Mind your own, you silly twit.
You don't live in NYC either, and your pathological lying has the relevence of a clown paint wannabe jizzing up on Trump for rubles.

Where do YOU live? Cuz like everything else you say, you living here in the USA sounds like total bullshit.

I post using my real name, I'm not divulging any further details - because I don't want to shoot anyone who decides visiting my house is a good idea.

I don't see how your opinion on this subject matters to me.

196 is NOT half of 289, Padre.

And murders as of October are at 249, a slight uptick from last year.

Where do you live again, and what's the name of this fictitious city you're talking about, padre?

501 gun homicides in NYC last year. I already quoted the statistic.

No.

You forgot to call me padre when you gave up.

Because you'll hem and haw - the population of that "big city" is 7.5 million.

Hmmm, 8.5 million in NYC, 3.990 in LA (the 2nd highest). Gosh, padre, wish I had a Mensa card too so I can find it sooner.

When you take the test, keep in mind that you're only allowed to take it once, ever.

Total bullshit. "A no-name sock puppet city next to my barn has 7.5 million people"
Thou shalt not lie, padre.

It's 60 miles from here.

No.

Of course you can't win. I'm sure you mommy will give you a trophy anyway.

True but stricter laws mean stricter punishment