Arthur Fist

I love when I tell someone I'm catholic, they're like oh, ok. I'm Christian. Well actually so am I.

But... here lies the problem: the Gospel.... because they're only one.

There exists, a vast differences between our congregations but this one is the most important; it is the definitive difference between us.

You believe that salvation is merited (Faith in cooperation with Works). I say, that bears no difference whatsoever with earning your salvation. Why? It is because you have to do something... in order to gain, or keep your salvation.

You are not trusting in Christ alone for your salvation: Romans 10:1-4.

If a person believes he's been saved would not the actions of his life reflect that? I make sacrifices, deny myself things, do kind works for my children and husband all the time, does that mean I'm trying to earn their love?

Yeah not by works alone

Faith is part of works of the law, if it has to be exercised constantly. There's a difference between faith that you must maintain to be saved (or to remain saved), and saving faith (John 5:24).

While the latter is also a work, because it involves you ("For by Grace are ye saved through faith, and... it is not of you..." Ephesians 2:8), it is the only work that saves (John 6:29-29).

Eternal life begins with saving faith

Agreed

I'm sorry, let me rephrase the last sentence: through saving faith, Eternal Life is given.

Let me add this: the nature of eternal life is that it is... eternal... therefore, the believer will not lose his/her salvation. S/he is saved for eternity. It is not exactly, "Once Saved-Always Saved" (in fact, OSAS., is a misnomer of the biblical truth) because although s/he will not lose his/her salvation, it is nevertheless, a process.

But the difference between the process expounded by the RCc and scripture is this: the former tells us that we work in cooperation with God in which we, in faith, obey the commandments of God and the Sacraments, and God gives us grace in turn.

On the other hand, the latter states that it is a process done by God, alone.

We are saved, past tense, meaning that we're saved by the promise of God to save us and that He indwells in us (John 5:24 & Philippians 1:6). Then we're saved, present tense: which means that God is continuing to save us (Galatians 2:20). Finally, God saves us, future tense, in which He will surely save us into eternal glory (John 6:37-39 & Jude 1:24).

So does that mean that once you are saved and baptised you will go to heaven no matter how you live your life?

Yes and no. Yes, because no sin a believer commits will condemn him/her (Romans 8:30-33, 35, 2 Timothy 2:11-13).

However, no because the believer will not live the way s/he had once lived (1 John 3:6-9).

Before "faith" (Romans 1:17), s/he is a slave to sin as s/he is carnally minded, not just in the flesh (6:16 & 8:6-7). S/he is a slave to sin, and willfully so.

But after "faith" s/he becomes a "New Creature", meaning, that s/he has a new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17). While still possessing the carnal flesh, s/he is no longer carnal in mind but now a slave* of righteousness (Romans 6:17-18).

Thus, a truly regenerated believer will never want to leave Christ. It is not to say that s/he will never sin or backslide, but will enviably return (Jude 1:24).

*The Greek word for "Servant" is the same used for "Slave".

K

No and yes. No, because we have other motivations: love for God, our children, moral zeal, etc. However, yes, because you know that heaven is for the sinless obedient and Hell for the opposite. It is for that reason that we'll always have a double reason to do good works whether conscience of it, or not (James 4:17).

So in the case of family, the only threat you face when neglecting your familial duties is scorn and jail time (and that is not at all difficult to avoid).

But with God, you have damnation so your obedience is forced and slavish. And if you don't feel that then with respect, you should, for you have no idea how obedient you must be to enter into His Kingdom (Matthew 5:20).

You must keep, all 613 commandments, and to break one then you've violated all of them (James 2:10).

Expect no mercy, forgiveness, or leniency with God (Deuteronomy 27:26 & Isaiah 64:6).

I believe God is merciful but it requires that I repent and turn away from sin, each and every day. Even though Christ won salvation for mankind It's not once and done for every individual. We chose heaven everyday through our actions.

Romans 4:4, Paul said that for those who try to earn their salvation is not "... a reward not reckoned of grace but a debt" [meaning, your salvation, if ever gained, is not given by grace (undeserved kindness) but by compulsion]. This is in perfect accordance to Deuteronomy 27:26.

You are continuing to place a curse on yourself you cannot possibly surpass (Acts 15:1 & 10). I know that's what you believe, but you can't ignore the scriptures I've given you. This is not a "you have your opinion and I have mine, and we'll be fine", this means the difference between heaven and hell.

What you're doing, is no different than what Paul spoken of the Jews in Romans 10:1-4.

So you are in the solo fides, solo, scriptura camp?

Yes, and moreover, Sola Gratia.

So nothing a person does affects their salvation? How about accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, is not that an act? Is Baptism not an act? Going to Church, opening your bible, even you chatting here, all are actions. So you contradict yourself.

Nothing indeed.

1st, we cannot even come to Him unless the Father draws us to the Son (John 6:44). As I've said before, we're carnally minded; our will is only to rebel and so cannot we naturally obey the commandments of God, even to believe.

2nd, when God does draw us in, it is an act of His sovereign grace. We are saved by His grace, through faith, in which He enabled us to (Acts 13:48).

Thus, we don't save ourselves: God does it all. And the rest you've mentioned, we do them not to be saved, but because we're saved (1 John 4:19).

I agree, so what exactly do you disagree with?

Were you not in opposition to me by the below following?

"So nothing a person does affects their salvation? How about accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, is not that an act? Is Baptism not an act? Going to Church, opening your bible, even you chatting here, all are actions. So you contradict yourself."

I'm trying to pinpoint which actions you say are putting a curse on me. Since you don't know me or how I live my life. In the book of Matthew Jesus said feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc.

To be sure, do you understand the curse I'm talking about? It is summarized in Galatians 3:10-13.

Actually, you can’t be both a Catholic and a Christian because Catholics worship the pope, which violates the 1st Commandment. I know what you’re thinking, “The pope just represents God’s word”; then how have so many popes contradicted each other?

The Pope is not worshipped.

Then why is he considered infallible? “Vicarius Filii Dei” literally means that the pope exists IN PLACE OF CHRIST!

No need to use caps bro. Papal infallibility is extremely different than papal worship. The pope exists in the place of Christ... as visible head of the Church on earth. Not to be confused with taking His place as God.

If everything that the pope says and does in infallible, he is pretty much worshipped. The only other entity (besides the Second Coming) that can possibly exist in place of Christ is, by definition, the Antichrist. It makes no sense for God to hire a head of the faith other than His Own word (the Bible) who can’t even perform any kinds of miracles, let alone abide to some of the most basic rules in the Bible, like keeping the Sabbath day as Saturday. http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/who-is-the-bible-antichrist-today.html

Not everything the pope says is infallible

Even if that’s actually true, it makes no sense to believe that God is forcing someone to directly preach His word, especially when we already have the Bible.

Show me a Catholic who worships the pope. I've never heard anyone put a Pope level with God. I don't even like our current pope.

I forgot to mention the fact that papal infallibility is pretty much the same thing as papal worship, as it entails that everything done by the pope is admirable.

Papal infallibility does not mean everything the Pope does is admirable or even right. It means that at certain insurances when the Pope is speaking on the topic of faith and morals from his seat as Pope "ex cathedra" we believe the Holy Spirit will not allow him to make a doctrine in error. Sort of like when the Holy Spirit inspired the scriptures. Even though the authors of the gospels may have not always lived perfect lives when they were writing scripture God guided their writing. Please do your research before your spread falsehood about the Church. Thanks for your comments though this is the place to learn!

*instances. Not insurences

I’m not here to troll. I just want to question and debate, here.

If the Holy Spirit is really working to make the pope divine, we would not have all of the terrible popes we have had in the past. Pope Francis’s views on homosexuality certainly contradict that of other popes, for example. It seems like God just wants us to use our free will to its full potential and leave it up to us to decide what’s wrong from what’s right.

Sure, respectful debates and questions are welcome here. I just think you misunderstand what the church teaches. The Pope is not and never will be a god. Can you link a source where you are getting your facts about Pope Francis' stance on homosexuality?

Just go on Wikipedia to find out.

With all due respect wiki is as reliable a source for accurate information as Facebook. Anyone and everyone can edit and post articles on any subject. Certainly not an authority on the Catholic Church.

I know, but I don’t think the Wiki would just come up with fake quotes.