Change My Mind

Sadly:(

he doesnt exist

I am cHrIStIAn

I dOnT gIvE a F**k

Disrespect a fake being?

I aM A cHriStIAn AnD YoU A LoWly AiTHeIsT CoME ANd DiSREsPeCt mY GOd

yep.

Yep what?

Just yep.

K

We DoNt GiVe A dAmN aBoUt YoUr GoD

.

yOu GoT a PrObLeM wItH tHaT bOi

We’re not all christian

Or not-completely up to you:-)

He was never here.

that point makes no sense

Yeah yeah just obey the law until you don’t like the law.

And the guys at work and the pub! LOL

Yes, I've seen comments on FB like that:)

LOL. It's so easy to hand out loads of cash in a meme

Wish it was real-lol

Or as I like to call it, the "Just in case" excuse.

Believing because you don't want to go to hell is a pitifully weak reason to believe for 2 reasons:
1. Heaven and Hell weren't a part of Christianity up until 553. AD when they were added by Byzantine emperor Justinian and empress Theodora. Before that,Christianity taught reincarnation.
2. Suppose there's another religion which punishes disbelievers with eternal torment. Supposing the Christian God or the God of the made-up religion is real,the said God would have to be a true sadist to have people take chances and eternally torment them if they turn out unlucky (and they have NO basis for making the decision).

The idea is such an obvious mind-control device,which ultimately has people believing "just in case"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y201QzDdzbg

There were a few links explaining everything in detail,but I can't find them. Guess they were removed(at Truth is always censored). Thankfully,this should do: https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/hidden-beliefs-covered-church-resurrection-and-reincarnation-early-christianity-006320

This one,too: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=semkiw-reincarnation-past-lives-christianity

If that's not enough,search "The Dead Sea Scrolls Reincarnation".

Do some research before referring to something as factually incorrect, the one who's "fighting untruth". If you were really fighting untruth, your blade would be pointed at Christianity, as it is 100% lies, deception and plagiarism.

First of all, what made you think I studied the Bible with a closed mind in the first place? If I did, I'd be a Christian fundie, plain and simple. Instead, I'm among the, if not THE most anti-Christian person you could ever come across. And the reason for that is because I studied the Bible (as well as the overall history and consequences of Christianity and it's dominion in Europe and Americas) with an open mind. And my views are as follows:

Christianity is a Jewish, imperialistic, mass-murderous cult of lunacy which denies reality at all times possible, and must resort to violence, mass-murders, genocide, brainwashing and fear-mongering to spread itself and continue existing. The Bible that the Christians worship and cherish so much has NOTHING unique and original about it. ALL it contains was plagiarized and bastardized from Pagan myths (mostly from Egypt, Persia and Babylon). The stories and the doctrine of the Bible have NO basis in reality (talking snake, 40-day long worldwide flood, exodus led by Moses, Moses bringing the 10 Commandments, Moses himself, mass-murder of all 2-year-old and younger babies in Israel, Jesus' birth, miracles, death, ressurection and ascension, Jesus himself, the idea that anything can be done with faith(Matthew 21:21-22) etc). The Bible is seen as an apex of morality by Christians, though in Truth, it is nothing of the sort (Numbers 31:17-18, most of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, 2 Kings 23-24, Ephesians 6:5, Psalm 137:9, Judges 19:24-25 and many others). Christians see Jesus as an embodiment of pure light, peace and love. The Bible says otherwise (Luke 14:26, Matthew 10:34-37, Matthew 21:18-19, Revelations 2:22-23).

Christians (and other followers of Abrahamic religions) take the myths and stories literally. Pagans, on the other hand, understand the metaphors and symbolism: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9upIvxh5uHU&has_verified=1

Christianity came from a desert, and it has brought exactly that with it wherever it went. A physical, an intellectual, a mental, a moral, an emotional and especially a spiritual desert. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dRYH2OEJXtc

Christians think they'll go to Heaven, but only THEIR type of Christians. Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Westboro Baptists and other Christian sects all resent each other and think their version of Christianity is the only true one, and all others are false. Utter fanaticism.

That's my view of Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions) in a nutshell.

Hope you haven't forgotten about me. Been busy with a lot of IRL shit, as well as other threads, so here's the second part of my reply:

I do have to congratulate you for questioning the statement I made about reincarnation. I used it a lot on many threads, but you and Octavia_Melody were the only ones who actually questioned it. Others either believed it or disbelieved it without giving it any thought. For that, you have my respect.

The two links you have provided were a very interesting read. I wish to mainly focus on the 'christians' link, so for the 'carm' one, I'll give a counter-link (which also explains the DSS): https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/history/judaism.html I am aware that the previous links I've posted have left a very bad taste in your mouth, so I'll understand if you decide not to read this one.

The link says that the council's events are well-documented by historians, and that reincarnation wasn't adressed at all. And I'll direct your attention to the first decree of the Anathemas against Origen, specifically the "monstrous restoration" part, which, in context the soul's preexistence, can only mean reincarnation. And if it doesn't mean that, them please enlighten me to the meaning of the phrase.
The link says that Origen himself didn't believe in reincarnation. To be fair, it doesn't matter if he did or didn't. Emperor Justinian declared reincarnation a heresy under the guise of declaring preexistence of the soul a heresy (which is necessairy to be true in order for reincarnation to be true). That is all that matters and what I'm trying to show.
The link says that the verses about ressurection, the last judgement, eternal life and eternal condemnation would've had to be inserted. Well, all that was needed to be done was to slightly alterchange the existing verses, or leave then intact, but present them in a different lightcontext. For example, 2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." This one can refer to both reincarnation, as well as H&H, depending on how you look at it. Receiving what is due us for the things done while in the body can refer to both going to Heaven or Hell, as well as Karma. This can apply to most of the verses mentioning or referencing H&H.

Again, I've reached the comment limit, so expect another part of the reply. This one will arrive shortly, I promise.

You mentioned pre-553. physical fragments of the NT that prove my claims to be wrong. Sorry, but I've never heard of these. You'll have to show me which fragments you're talking about AND that they mention H&H.
On the other hand, I can show you a very simple but strong evidence for reincarnation in early Christianity: drawings. Let me explain. There are many Christian drawings from the 1st half of the 1st millennium (most of the featuring Jesus and his Apostoles, John the Baptists and other saints). However, there are no drawings of H&H from that period. The oldest ones are from medieval times (beginning of 2nd millennium, to be exact). And H&H is not exactly some minor,forgettable part of Christianity. You would think there would be depictions from thee early years. OF course if you think or know that there are H&H drawings from the mentioned period, feel free to show them to me and I'll eat my words.

Another evidence is that Christianity itself makes much more sense with Reincarnation than it does with H&H. For example,let's take John 9:2-3:"and His disciples asked Him, 'Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?' Jesus answered, 'Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him' ". With H&H, these works of God make no sense. Why would he want to take away the sight of an innocent baby? God would have to be a real asshole to do that. But with reincarnation, these works of God actually make sense, because the baby might've blinded someone in their previous lifetime, and as a divine punishment, the baby has to live it's next life being blind.

Now, I still have to show anything about the 553. being the time when reincarnation was removed from Christianity. I forgot to mention that what exactly happened in 553. is the Second Council of Constantinople. The first decree from the Anathemas against Origen from the council follows: “If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema." Or in other words, the belief in the existence of the soul before birth and in reincarnation(monstrous restoration) was declared heresy. And why would he do that if everyone believed in H&H? And not to mention that this was done against the will of Pope Vigilius, the pope at the time.

I've reached the comment limit, so I'll continue in another reply.

The link presents Hebrews 9:27 (And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement) as verse that debunks reincarnation in Christianity. Well, does it, now? Hebrews 9 doesn't talk about life after death (other than the appointed verse), so this one can also be prefectly sensical in the context of reincarnation. For example, let's suppose that after I die, I reincarnate as you, and that when you die, you reincarnate as someone else. I died once. You died once. Both of us were judged after our deaths as to what life shall we live next. Therefore, the verse does not disprove reincarnation.

I feel the need to present some verses in support of the reincarnation in Christianity, so here are a few of them:
Job 1:21 "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD." (Note: Some versions say "die" or "depart" instead of "return there", and some don't mention the mother's womb at all)
Ecclesiastes 5:15 "As he had come naked from his mother’s womb, so will he return as he came. He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand."
Hebrews 11:13-15 (verse 15 crucial, previous two for context) "13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return."
Matthew 17:10-13 "The disciples asked him, 'Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?' Jesus replied, 'To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.' Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." (In other words, Jesus said that John the Baptist was a reincarnation of Elijah) + Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (And John was born before Jesus, so the prophecy was true)

And for the end, the remark about studying the Bible with an open mind...
In another reply. I've reached the limit yet again.

And what if you’re wrong and I am right. Do you really want to take that chance?

What if the real test is that God wants to save people who can think themselves out of a paper bag while being brave enough to face down threats of a poor afterlife? Since there is no empirical case to be made about what the afterlife comprises your guess, anybody's guess is as good as any other. Maybe your insurance bet will land you in Hell. Then what?

*facepalm*

First of all, you go with your "just in case" excuse again, meaning you didn't understand anything I've written.

Second of all, there is no chance to be taken. Christianity is a gigantic fraud, on ALL levels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNik8niSrrY
And another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_um69RqBpSw and believe me,there are many,MANY more.

Such a colossal fraud requires violence, brainwashing and fear-mongering for anyone to believe in it, and that is how it became the world's greatest religion in the first place. Violence to reach the position(When Christianity spread through Europe, Africa, America and the rest of the world, it was not through peaceful means), and brainwashing and fear-mongering to stay in that position.

Now answer me, honestly: If Christianity taught reincarnation, if the idea of Heaven and Hell didn't exist and if God wasn't omnipresent and omnipotent, would you still believe in him? If not, then you believe in God only because you're afraid of God(thus proving my point). If you'd still believe in God,I'd like to hear why.

First of all “without faith it is impossible to please God” Hebrews 11:16 so I had to take that initial step of faith and believe what the Bible says - “Believe on the Lord and you shall be saved” Acts 16:31. Once I did that I received more faith, began studying my Bible, praying, going to church which caused a development in a relationship between me and God. And yes, a certain amount of fear is what brought me to God. I didn’t want to go to hell and heaven sounds so much better so the choice was obvious. But God chose me. Maybe you’re not predestined (Romans 8:29), but the only way to know if you are is to ask Him for forgiveness and find out. Once I did that a whole new life of peace in my heart and hope opened up for me. Is my life perfect? NO WAY! But God is helping me to develop character through adversity. Just think if I had everything I wanted-what an awful, selfish, good for nothing thing I would be! I have learned to thank God even for my trials, knowing that He is developing my character. I grew up never meeting my dad and was angry and bitter all the time. My childhood wasn’t easy and then I married an extremely abusive man who was very cruel to me-so I became bitter. Then I met God and my heart has changed, I have love for others, I have joy, and I know where I’m going when I die. And I can’t answer your last question because that’s not who God is. That’s like asking me if I would’ve known that my ex-husband was going to beat me, choke me, shoot me, would I still marry him? Obviously not.

Good point. But reality trumps all. The reality is there is no evidence that conscious thought is any more than a physical manifestation of the brain.
But if you're correct and God exists I would hope that since most claim God is omnipotent, omniscient and all loving that I would be forgiven for being me and not believing such a thing can exist since it's an oxymoron.
In other words God is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving. Pick any two.

You can be forgiven. You only have to ask. It is so simple:)

But if I don't ask or if I don't believe there is any supreme being to ask I'll be tortured for eternity? Do I have that right?

yes, you do :)

So the all-loving deity who has the power to do anything and knew from my conception that I would defy his wishes is OK with condemning me to eternal damnation? Not to mention the millions of kids who never even heard the good word and the people who think critically using their "God given" minds and people you personally know and love who will not submit to the gospel. All of us together will burn eternal while you and the chosen are blissfully indulging your every wish in heaven?
It takes guts to love such a vain, cruel and spiteful entity.

He is all loving but can’t tolerate sin so unless you’ve asked forgiveness you will go to hell but God is also fair and just so if there are kids out there who truly don’t know right from wrong, God takes that into account.

Unable to tolerate sin. So God isn't omnipotent.
But how is it you know the mind of God? Where is it written that God makes special accommodations for certain children. In fact if we are all his children wouldn't a fair and just God choose to save us all? He loves us so much he doesn't want to see us burn, right?

When this thread and the other started, I thought that you really were interested in learning more-my mistake. I leave it at that:)

We did go pretty far astray from the original point. If you look at the Dawkins quote I provided it answers your assertion that atheists believe in god. As a Christian I'm pretty sure you reject the existence of Thor and Odin as deities. You accept the holy trinity as your god. An atheist disbelieves the holy trinity with the same ease you don't believe in the pantheon of Egyptian, Norse, Greek, Roman gods. And if a person is truly an atheist they don't believe in any of those substitutions as well. So have I changed your mind about atheists?

Well the Bible says that everyone has the knowledge of God existing (Romans 1:20) but there’s also a scripture (Romans 1:28) that God will eventually give some over to a reprobate mind -those He regards as evil or wicked. And THOSE I do think may not believe-but those people are very far gone and I cannot believe that someone as civil as you are here with me would not be at that point:)