I know, I'm a dumb moron who is entirely clueless and idiotic and retarded, so maybe I am too dumb to understand the answer.

A) So you are out of argumentation
B) If it was the result of your own government, then why build a wall to stop them? The government will then import it anyway...
C) I've heard that one before... Until people found out on which things they always took for granted had to be cut. But then again, they say there's more than enough money in the U.S. so why not flush it through the toilet directly? Equally as effective.

And yes, bridges, the sea, planes, you name all the things yourself. You can shut down the bridges, but that could be a business error and what are you gonna do about ships and planes? Shoot them? Depending on their flag that could be an act of war, especially since the owners of those planes and ships are mostly not aware of what they transport, and for professional reasons they don't even want to know. Not to mention that those planes/ships often transport for multiple clients so shooting them could ruin the business of many innocent businessmen. And like I said, you can't build a wall in the sea and especially not in the sky. Cut short, for stopping drugs the wall is a waste of money, and migrants will also find their way, and mansmugglers will only see their business to be booming when the wall gets there. It's not me who's talking out of his ass (I tried to make my ass talk, but so far I was unsuccessful). It's just that you are completely stubborn and unwilling to listen to reason, and you confirm that with every post your write. And on the moment you cannot deny it anymore you result to poor attempts to insult. Well insults will not work... I am not a Monkey Island Pirate.

Why should I? I just came out of bed, oh, and I'm sober, and you appear to be drunk... Maybe that explains something. Oh, and I ain't a liberal, and those who know me, and who know about politics know that. I only considered voting for the liberal party in my country once, and that was only out of tactical reasons, back then, and not because of their agenda, but to prevent another party from being the biggest, but I guess that's hard to understand for somebody living in a federation where only two parties really matter.

You're telling me you know how things go down at the border and you're not even American?

Man, I get local news about the border. I see the big drug seizures in the local newspaper. I've never heard of large amounts of drugs or trafficked people being caught at the airports. I rarely hear of drugs being stopped at the beach. It's always Trucks trying to cross through legal entries or SUV's trying to drive through the desert.

Now calling me a troll is the weakest thing I've ever encountered on the internet. Lemme tell you one thing.... It's not that I'm a troll... It's that you are unwilling to face reality and calling people who put the truth in your face is your easy way out.

But then again, only a few have the power to face reality and accept it the way it is, so in that perspective you ain't in bad company. I've however no respect for people who put the blame for that on me or anybody else, for the pain caused by having to face reality.

See, walls work.

Listen guy, I'm extremely open minded. It's why I support the wall.

I live by the most southern border in the US. I have Walked into Mexico using the bridge. My local news reports on drug busts you don't know exist, and never will. I know illegal immigrants. I know legal immigrants that think they're illegal immigrants. I date someone who works helping kids in the detention facilities. I heard it straight from the people getting government dollars that Mexico was going to start taking all of the adults caught crossing illegally. I know more about Border politics than ANYONE on this site.

When I voted for Trump I was totally against the Border Wall. The media had me convinced it was racist and was about keeping Mexicans out. It was only after months of research and life experiences that I realized the truth.

The Wall is necessary. The Wall isn't just about immigration. The Wall works.

I've already debated with you and all you have is the same argument: "it's not going to work"

Someone recently posted something about 3 separate cities that put up walls and had the illegal immigrant traffick reduced by over 90%.

I can't convince you with facts or reason. Instead of reading opinion pieces by respected journalists do some actual research. I'm done playing. Seriously.

Oh really? And can you explain why the majority of people living close to the border tell a completely different story, and how come they didn't even KNOW the people who came with banners to promote Trumps wall when he got over there. If these people are suffering because of a close border at least someone there must have recognized them, which sounded pretty familiar to me as I heard that one before in other countries. You think you live in a unique country, doncha? And I live close to a border too, close to the MAIN highroad to the border actually. And I am not even THE expert, but there are a lot of my country men who know more about the U.S.A. than you'll ever do, and yeah, they too speak out. Since the U.S.A. always tries to be "the most important country of the world", I think it's only natural the entire world knows in turn everything about you, and your border problems with Mexico are far from unique. And the EU has ISIS close to its border, and not only them.
And I said it countless time before, but I guess I'll have to say it again. When people are desperate to cross the border, they always will, and the more impassible the barrier, the more worth it it will be to cross the border. Yes, desperation will do that. The problem is not at the border. Any issues there are the RESULT of the problem. The true problem is a terrible situation causing people to leave their home grounds (which is not an easy decision to make, as these people live behind nearly all they have and love). If you want to solve that problem, you've made a step closer to solving the migrant problems. And drugs will pass the border anyhow. True drug criminals are very extremely smart people, who are always ahead of the cops. They don't need roads, "openings" in places where there's no wall. Any people caught with drugs there are overall just runners... Sometimes set out in order to be caught to distract the police. Why do you think it's drugs criminals who are really the most powerful people on Earth? Because they can be stopped by something is simple as a wall? The problem with drugs world-wide would already have been solved by now if it was that easy.

You need to do more research.

That rant was like listening to a first grader describing calculus because he knows how to add.

Drug lords are power pieces. Even they answer to the deep state via the CIA.

Look carefully at your rant. You started brushing up against the truth but you didn't make the connections.

Why are those countries destabilized? Why do destabilized countries produce drugs? Who do they sell to? Who lets them?

Why are people that are referred to as "deep staters" really fighting to stop the wall?

I am not brushing up the truth! You are! And you just wanna turn your back to it, as the problem is easy, the solution is easy to understand, but executing it won't be, so why do it the hard way, when the easy way can give the illusion it suffices? And I didn't write a rant, and you obviously even don't know what that word means, so don't use it. I did make the connections, and I did my research, and I came to these conclusions after thinking for years and being willing to think out of the box.
And there are countless reasons to be against the wall. People who still remember the Berlin wall (which includes myself) remember what it stood for, and swore to never accept such mad thing ever again. But since I hate symbolical politics (which Trump's wall also happens to be) the Berlin wall alone is not enough. The Berlin wall is only around one city and not even the entire city but only a part of it. Over 3000 km of a wall is already quite a feat to build, and 5 billion will only be the start. How much do you think that wall will cost for maintenance? Also as criminals who want to smuggle people past the border will be able to charge more the human right violations will increase and these people will thank Trump for that wall. Nothing is better for their business than that, and we already know that when smugglers smuggling migrants get their way things can be pretty harmful. One of the most important countries for the U.S. for business happens to be Mexico and the wall won't change that. In Europe we can see now that the U.K. is trying getting stricter that many migrants try to climb aboard trucks, damaging the cargo duping many companies and directly their employees. The same will happen at the border, and that will only be the tip of the iceberg, and no the cops will not be able to filter them all out, only a small portion, and that is just one of the countless things migrants will try or which smugglers will try. And drugs crime will be the same it ever was. It's not that the stuff I name is not connected. You don't want to see the connections, but that is not my problem, so don't blame me for that.

If you want to isolate the U.S. from the rest of the world... go ahead. Other countries will find other countries to do their business with and sooner or later the U.S. will just be a nice forgotten chapter in history.

I did a poor job of expressing what i meant with the brushing thing. I meant you came close to the truth.

How does it feel already knowing everything?

Didn't the Berlin wall do it's job quite well? So you're basing your political decisions totally on your emotions?

We're done here

When it comes to the Berlin wall, I said it before... I hate symbolic decisions so the Berlin wall alone does not make me against it. Next the Berlin wall doing its job? All it did was divide one group of people into two, causing a lot of trouble in the process. It was just an action of revenge by the Soviets because they could not seize control over West-Berlin. In manners of security, it had no function at all, and that was never the intention behind it.

The Berlin wall, did however get me thinking about the purpose of walls in matters like these. All the Berlin wall did was drive up tension between the U.S. and West-Europe on one side and the Soviet Union and East-Europe at the other. And in that perspective the U.S.-Mexican wall will be no different, and the same story goes for the wall Israel built "on" the border with Gaza.

And my space was too short in my last comment to explain why in destablized countries drugs is produced. The answer has been explain over a million times. A lot of drugs producers are not true criminals, but just doing it as it's all they got to make a living. No jobs in town, no social security, and thus no food and such. It's not even unusual the true criminals even own the lands they are on, so basically they got no choice. So what to do? Try to hold the drugs on the border? That will slip past anyway. Put the people producing in jail? Will only make their desperation worse. Give them another perspective. Educate them and make sure they can get a proper job, and catch the true criminals so they cannot threaten their "underlings".

Now this is easier said than done for a few reasons. A) the people producing drugs are often hard to find (for obvious reasons), B) They may try to reject your help out of fear for the true drug criminals (right they are), C) The drug criminals may try to hunt you if you try to help and last but not least, D) People like you who would definitely vote against candidates who would offer this help making it political suicide.

There's a reason the true drug criminals are next to impossible to catch. They always exploit the terrible situations in the countries where they operate. ISIS uses the same technique when recruiting terrorists. Seeking young people (easy to influence) who are in a terrible situation and exploit that and talk more bad stuff into them. Easy as pie! I you can help these young ones before recruiters catch them, you can prevent them joining leaving ISIS empty handed.

THINK!

Your assessment of the Berlin Wall is based on emotion.

It worked.

Mexico and the US aren't the same group of people. Mexico is not our ally. We've been to war with Mexico. They sold us out to the Nazi's.

You're worried about US reputation? The world hates us. The world has been scamming us for decades. Our "allies" have committed acts of war against us (five eyes interference). Hell, Macron publicly called for a military to be ready to fight the US. The only reputation that matters to the US is that we're too strong to f**k with.

You haven't got a clue about Central America and the drug industry.

You think education is the answer? You think you can have a few lectures in schools and the drug trade will end? You're a fool.

Why do children make the thousand mile journey to the US? Do you know? No you don't. They do it because the gangs come to their home and viscously murder their parents and siblings that refused to join or do the work the of the gangs. They get a choice: work for the gangs or die. The ones in the US chose to run. The ones that get caught running die.

Easy as pie? You're a f**king idiot. I told you we are done here.

Don't tell me to think. You don't know a damn thing. All you can do is paraphrase leftist propaganda that appeals to soft hearted and weak minded want-to-do-gooders.

You think.

Yes, the Berlin wall worked precisely the way for which it was intended. To mock the United States and all of western Europe. That was the only function the wall had. It was a reaction to the U.S. keeping the West of Berlin connected by air, and no wall will ever stop that, but the Soviets needed to make a statement, and that was the wall. And that is all it was, nothing more nothing less. There was no strategic gain, nor millitary gain, or whatever, it was just sticking up a middle finger to the U.S. and the Berlin people paid the price.

But then again, the wall didn't work as the Soviets hoped the U.S. would let West-Berlin go by making the Berlin people suffer, and that the U.S. couldn't bear that on their name, but the U.S. was always pretty keen on it to never let the Soviets get their hands on the West of Berlin until the very day the wall fell, so in the end the wall didn't work. If you really believe that wall had a protective function, then I guess it's back to history class for you!

Next that wall was nothing more but a provocation. An act of "cold war". Is the U.S. in a state of war with Mexico now? Even if it was, I doubt a wall would help, but frankly I think Mexico has better stuff on its mind that to even consider to attack the U.S. All a wall does is divide people. The Berlin wall did, the Isreali wall still does, and the U.S./Mexico wall will do the same. The lessons of the past are being forgotten, or you refuse to learn them.

And I am not an idiot. I hate it to call myself wise, but at least I know I am far wiser than you will ever be, unless you accept the truth. And if you keep insisting "we're done here", that what's the point trying to prove me wrong, as you were already done.

Precisely, you know I'm right, and you're just hoping I'll go away. Now I had little time the past days to get here, but if you think you "won" a discussion., then all i can say is that you know nothing, Jon Snow, so a true discussion actually never took place.

I'm coming down with the flu or something, so I'm not reading all this now.

But don't waste too much time on Grind. If he IS NOT a Russian agent, then he's a complete idiot, because they couldn't pay him enough for this level of dedication to disinformation. If he was around back in the USSR days, they would have fired the whole Pravda staff and replaced them with him. Then again, maybe not because he's too obvious.

> Blah blah blah.

Out of proper argumentation?

> People couldn't get past the wall which is why the desperate stories of people trying to get out of the soviet side exist.

Actually those stories exist, because they are true. The only reason because they rarely got past the wall is because passing the iron curtain to get into the West-German main land was by far more fruitful than to get yourself "prisoner" inside an enclave being dependent on local authorities to get in the mainland. Also it was not the wall itself that stopped people. It was actually very very to climb it (as shown on the day the wall fell and history was being written). The number of soldiers next to the wall ready to kill you had more to do with it. And that brings us to the question if you have enough soldiers to guard the Max-US wall.

> Walls work. The end.

That line shows how stubborn you are. Then again, you are the kind of guy who would never admit to be wrong even if irrefutable evidence is presented that you are. And you even try to deny historical facts, which is quite convenient since acknowledging them would show that walls do not work. Oh, and when you think the Chinese Wall worked... Despite (possible even because of it, but when I was fact-checking I couldn't confirm "because") that wall the Chinese did suffer a great defeat and the Chinese emperor committed suicide after that (hung himself in a tree). The Berlin wall was never meant to hold people anyway, but to force the U.S. to give up West-Berlin to the Soviets and the U.S. never did. Be proud as an American! The U.S. did something good there. You are now denying a great U.S. historical success only because you're desperate in accepting a wall is not the solution. Now THAT is quite embarrassing!

Guy, there's nothing to argue!

Walls throughout history have worked! The easiest way to get past walls is to sneak through the entrances. That's how it's always been for thousands and thousands of years!

Yes, extremely determined and skilled people can scale them, but for 99% of people walls are impassable barriers. Do you think the pig food lady is scaling a 30' wall? No

Just give up! You're insane! You're an actual crazy person! The sky is blue, wheels go round, and walls keep things outside!

> Guy, there's nothing to argue!

Then why do you keep on trying then? You argued with my statement, not the other way around. :P

>Walls throughout history have worked! The easiest way to get past walls is to sneak through the entrances. That's how it's always been for thousands and thousands of years!

Well, you give up the easiest ways yourself. And there are more ways to do it.

> Yes, extremely determined and skilled people can scale them,

Do you have any idea, how determined desperate people can be... (Heck, I see it in your desperation to depict me as a fool, so I can reset that case)

> but for 99% of people walls are impassable barriers.

Perhaps... if they are made out of diamond and surround the space it has to protect entirely. And even then NOTHING is impassable! Even better barriers than walls have been passed countless times.

> Just give up! You're insane! You're an actual crazy person! The sky is blue, wheels go round, and walls keep things outside!

I have nothing to give up. I am indeed crazy, then again... everybody is, and at least I admit that. It would be really crazy when you are not crazy. Then I would be worried. And when it comes to walls keeping things outside... that depends on the wall, it's function and what it's part of. Simplicity never brought us further. Comparing a wall in a building, a fence around the house to a wall between two nations, is like comparing berries with melons. You're out of proper argumentation, and yet you cling on... Perhaps you should follow your own advice...

F**k off troll. I'm done with you.

Who is JereonBrooks? I wonder...

> Listen guy, I'm extremely open minded. It's why I support the wall.

You haven't shown that in the last posts

> I live by the most southern border in the US.

Then you should also know, that there are companies in your neighbourghood who will go bankrupt if no Mexicans come.

> I have Walked into Mexico using the bridge. My local news reports on drug busts you don't know exist, and never will.

They do!

> I know illegal immigrants.

You too? That's a coincidence! I've met them too. Even ones who have really gotten themselves in trouble.

> I date someone who works helping kids in the detention facilities. I heard it straight from the people getting government dollars that Mexico was going to start taking all of the adults caught crossing illegally.

Yeah, and I've worked for people in the same field. You DO know that migration and such is not just a U.S. issue, do you?

> I know more about Border politics than ANYONE on this site.

Then why are you insisting on that wall, when you KNOW it won't work, as you can't claim you know anything as long as you claim that, for starters. It's not just the migrants or criminal offenses btw. Did you ever realize what it takes to build and maintain that wall? And I've heard people talk who also live close to that border and who are still against that wall, not to mention that Trump will have to deal with land owners who do not want to give up their lands for that wall. If some people should "benefit" from that wall and know its "importance", they are.

> When I voted for Trump I was totally against the Border Wall. The media had me convinced it was racist and was about keeping Mexicans out. It was only after months of research and life experiences that I realized the truth.

Yeah, and I have known people who've been victim of migrants personally. Even shared my house with those victims. And yet, I know better than that. And you come to these conclusions in months. I've seen the light after years.

> Someone recently posted something about 3 separate cities that put up walls and had the illegal immigrant traffick reduced by over 90%.

I don't trust numbers and especially not without sources. I've heard numbers before that were correct, but counter-numbers presented a completely different truth. So tell me how did those numbers come up? And also tell the counter-numbers with them!!!

You must have seen me at other discussions in this, and considering the content of my meme you must have known where I stand in this matter. So you KNEW what you got yourself into when you began to reply to me in the first place. And I wonder who are you to call me stupid by voting for an incompetent president, and to believe his statements the press only lies (overall, the only kinds of presidents who do that are dictators of presidents trying to be dictators, haven't you figured that one out), and let your convictions about the wall be swayed by this president based on a crisis he created himself. How stupid I am for seeing straight through all that.

You remind me of myself, of the time I was just past my teens. Although I never took it that far. And if you don't want me to reply to you, then simply don't comment anymore.

I've been confronted with life and everything around it the hard way, and one thing I learned from that is that simplistic ideas seldom work. "Just build a wall and all problems are solved", right? That sounds too good to be true, and if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And if you think ahead and back, you'll learn why.

Nobody (who knew what they said) would ever tell you that the quest for truth and learning to think in true problem to solution thinking was easy.

AHHHHH so much stupidity! You win, I'm triggered by how stupid you are! You make me lose faith in humanity you're so stupid. I seriously wonder how the f**k you don't drown while drinking.

Sometimes things are that simple. Put up a wall and 90% of the people that have been passing through the border won't be able to!

They've literally been driving alongside the wall until it ends and then they just turn into the desert and drive into the country. That, that right there, (GO BACK AND READ IT AGAIN) is how the vast majority of illegal entries into the country happen.

How in the hell are human traffickers going to get 4-8 unwilling captives up and over a wall? How is 1000 lbs of marijuana going to get over or through the wall before BP is on top of their ass? You think 500,000 people are going to come to the border with a thirty foot ladder and a rope every year?

They aren't going to buy a boat to raft down the rio grande and into the gulf of Mexico so that they can get picked up by the coast gaurd, they aren't going to buy a plane and fly into US airspace so they can get shot down immediately, they aren't going to build a catapult to demolish their cargo. They aren't going to dig a tunnel so that the sonic detectors on the wall can hear them and BP can stand on top of them until they come up, they aren't going to try to saw through the steel because that will take too long and the cameras will let the BP know exactly where they are. The truly committed ones will try to sneak in through an actual entrance, and most likely get caught. THE END.

Throughout history WALLS HAVE WORKED! People that got past the great wall of china WENT THROUGH THE GATES. People that got smuggled past the Berlin wall WENT THROUGH THE GATES.

A wall will funnel the traffic where the BP wants it to go. It is that easy. That's how walls have worked for all of human history. That's why they were invented. Yes, there's always exceptions, that's what makes people amazing, but that's like 10%. I'm happy to have a 90% reduction. That's fantastic.

Please, don't respond. This is really it. There's nothing I can do to try and convince you of your insanity. I really hope you're a troll. You're level of TDS is beyond comprehension.

The sheer immensity of your stupidity never ceases to amaze.

That other people's asses make more sense than your silly partisan hack fantasies is an accurate assestment and one that does not elevate your gibberish past the level of the cap on stool softener.