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Falling For Religion

Falling For Religion | . | image tagged in atheism,anti-religion,anime,vocaloid | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
513 views 4 upvotes Made by Jessethowski 7 years ago in fun
16 Comments
[deleted]
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
Here's a reason why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
0 ups, 7y
OMG!
I LOVE that song!!!
[Has nothing to do with truth, though.]
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
I know, right?
1 up, 7y
. | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
0 ups, 7y,
2 replies
Creepy Condescending Wonka Meme | WHAT IS WRONG WITH RELIGION? CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW OR WHY YOUR WORLDVIEW WOULD BE BETTER THAN THAT OF THE RELIGIOUS? | image tagged in memes,creepy condescending wonka | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
0 ups, 7y,
1 reply
Most wars have been fought over religion, which has no basis in reality.
0 ups, 7y
I’d really like it if religions would just fade away…
I wouldn’t outlaw religion, as there are unfortunately too many people who need it, because they only hang out with believers who haven’t thought very deeply about what they believe in and why.
0 ups, 7y,
1 reply
Prayer and "faith" healing have both been demonstrably shown not to work, yet people use them for deadly illnesses where medical help could have saved the person's life; people go through psychological problems due to indoctrination; violence, and discrimination occur for "Biblical" reasons; etc., etc.
"MORALITY?"
The BIBLE???
Exodus 21 is all about slavery and how people are to be treated when they are OWNED by other people...how moral is that?
If you're a terrible person your whole life, yet accept Jesus on your death bed--you go to heaven while the person who has helped people and done good things his whole life but DOESN'T accept Jesus--according to the Bible--goes to Hell?
How MORAL is that?
It makes me f**king insane.
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
"...haven’t thought very deeply about what they believe in and why."
That describes me perfectly when I was an evolution believing atheist.

If evolution based atheism is true and we are all just animals trying to establish dominance and strive for "survival of the fittest" why would I care that people get killed or abused for any reason lest of all religion? What makes other people beside me and mine special?

As a matter of fact, if I am smart enough to use the superstitions of other people to get them to serve me and do my every bidding, what is the problem? I'm just establishing my dominance because I am more "fit" than they are.

That is the logical conclusion of evolution and atheism. People hurt and take advantage of each other because we are only animals. You can't ascribe intrinsic worth or value to people without borrowing from the theistic worldview. You may appeal to "society" or "what's best for the human species" but why should I care about society or individuals in the species besides myself? Survival of the fittest, I want what is best for me, and if I need to lie, cheat, steal, kill, or indoctrinate other people to get it, so what?

So, I ask again, how would following that worldview through to its logical conclusion be better than following the Christian worldview through to its logical conclusion? In my Christian worldview individual people do have intrinsic value and it does matter how we treat each other on a personal basis; none of which matters in your worldview unless you borrow from my worldview.
1 up, 7y,
2 replies
Evolution is not a worldview. It not at all prescriptive, but merely a simple fact of nature. It doesn't even exclude the potential existence of moralistic God, so I don't see why you should wish it weren't true -- not that our understanding of factual reality should be defined by our preferred moralistic perspective anyway. But with all due respect, if you can't find reason to care for the well-being of others without believing the universe is dominated by an omniscient anthropomorphic immortal, then that's your problem. Why should you care about others? That's hardly something I can answer prescriptively and objectively. But nonetheless, people typically feel some sort of emotional compulsion to act "morally" whether they are religious or not. We are, after all, social creatures with senses of empathy and guilt that function independently of religion, to the extent that some concepts of ethics are apparently culturally universal. Indeed, I think it is safe to say that you too have emotional reasons behind your own sense of morality; you do, after all, seem to imply that it would be a bad thing if there was no deity to arbitrate ethics, even though in a hypothetical world where there is no such deity, ethics would be irrelevant anyway (at least, by your own description.) If there were no God, and someone were somehow able to successfully prove it to you, then would you suddenly cease to value human lives? I highly doubt you would. I certainly value human life, though I am not religious. I care about humanity not because I have logically reasoned that I should, but because I simply can't help but to do so. It is something as intrinsic to my being as my own desire for self preservation, or will to live.
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
“Evolution based atheism” evolution is the presupposition of the majority of atheists. “Simply a fact of nature” is an argument by assertion posing as a truism. I’m aware of those who believe in “theistic evolution” but that is not the topic at hand. The logical conclusion to the presuppositions of the atheistic worldview is the topic at hand.
“…people typically feel some sort of emotional compulsion to act "morally" whether they are religious or not,” is a fact that we experience every day, and my question is with the logical conclusion of the presuppositions of the atheistic worldview why is that? Why do the majority of people all over the world have a sense of empathy and guilt, even those who have no religious background, why are there culturally universal ideals or concepts of ethics? The worldview of atheism based on evolution can’t answer that, nor can any other worldview answer that without borrowing from the biblical Christian worldview, that is one reason why there has been such a push in the past to say that Christianity “borrowed” or “stole” from other religions.
I’m not arguing that anyone has to believe that God exists in order to be moral or have a conscience towards others, I am arguing that the reason morality exists is because God does exist whether one believes in him or not. Let me tell you about my “morality” before I was born again: I valued my life and the life of my family and that was pretty much it; that was all the “emotional reason behind my morality.” I would sell drugs to a thirteen year old but not my thirteen year old cousin.
If someone could prove there is no god, I would value my life above those of others (which is the logical conclusion to atheism based on evolution, correct?) Please meme...
Why is caring, compassion, and value for human lives (other than my own or those of my family) intrinsic within the majority of human beings? I assert that no one can answer that without appealing to nature which would contradict the presupposition of atheism (evolution) or without borrowing from a “religious” worldview. The producer of the featured meme hasn’t really thought that through and you have admitted that you don't know where your sense of morality originates.
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
Evolution is not a presupposition being baselessly championed as a "truism." Just because you may have taken evolution on faith without understanding how it works doesn’t mean the rest of us do. Evolution is a scientifically demonstrable fact; every living thing on earth fits into a monophyletic clade of organisms derived through limited changes compiled upon successive tiers of fundamental similarities over myriad generations by means of selective pressures acting upon random genetic mutations that inevitably increase relative functionality within a biological population. This can be shown conclusively through embryology, comparative physiology, paleontology, and most crucially, genetics.

It is also incorrect to assert that methodological naturalism and evolutionary biology have no possible explanation for emotionality and moralistic instinct. Having emotional senses of sympathy and guilt plays an important role in the lives of social animals and the functionality of social groups, as does the desire for conformity, social bonding, etc… The fundamental set of social behaviors that we categorize as ethics or morality provide a survival advantage by enhancing group cohesion and cooperative ability, and in this guise are not beyond the realm of evolutionary biology. Morality can be functionally described in terms of psychophysiology and neuropsychology, and is most certainly explicable evolutionarily; there is no need to attribute it to the magic of deities.
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
So, if what we see in nature, "emotional senses of sympathy and guilt plays an important role in the lives of social animals and the functionality of social groups..." etc. accounts for human morality then logically shouldn't we accept other group behaviors we see in nature as important in the lives of humans as well. For example: when we see a community of chimpanzees (our supposed 'cousins') slaughter another community of chimpanzees over territory, shouldn't that also be acceptable behavior for nations or groups of humans? Why or why not?
BTW how does a naturalistic materialistic worldview account for something that is immaterial, universal, and eternal i.e. logic?
0 ups, 7y
So you're assuming I presuppose that evolution is true, rather than actually understanding the science behind it? On what grounds? Whatever presuppositions my worldview may have, evolution is certainly not one of them.

But anyway, morality is an arbitrary construct defined by instinctive and emotional core values. There is no way to logically determine an objective sense of "right" and "wrong" beyond what we instinctively and emotionally are willing to allow for. You asked (if I am interpreting your question correctly) whether or not it is morally "right" to kill others for territory, as some chimps do. I personally don't believe that it is, simply because the suffering and death of others upsets me on an emotional level to an extent that I consider territorial expansion an unjustified reason to kill others. I'm sure countless others (especially from the ancient and medieval world) would disagree, and I would have no logical grounds to convince them otherwise unless their core values were similar enough to my own for them to agree with me fundamentally on an instinctive and emotional level.

Logic is simply the method by which information is evaluated in terms of how humans categorically perceive and interpret the world around them. It is a computational method of inference determined by categorical arbitration and semantics.
1 up, 7y,
1 reply
This is a better meme to go with my initial response, but I thought of that Osteen meme and if I don't make or write down an idea right away I tend to lose it. But it is still applicable.
2 ups, 7y
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